Anisarian wrote:Tell me GStone, which of the books have you read? I ask out of Curiosity, cause you don't seem to know anything real about the Culture at all.
Point in fact, I do. I have only read myself parts of several books. I have been so busy over the last several years that I haven't had the chance to. However, on the last board, I did have an extensive fact finding discussion with a poster named 'herzeleid', who was a wealth of knowledge about the Cultureverse. A couple pages ago, I posted my exchanges with him from the last board, as well as my posts to a few other posters in that thread.
The Mind can recreate technological effects of treknology without havinganything to base it off but TOS trek Effects? Thats more impressive then being able to create something when the physics are given to it.
That doesn't mean its method of operation is exactly how it is in the Trek or Wars canon.
My point was not that they would have previous knowledge of Treknology, my point was that for a party they could recreate the exact effects of it. For a party. For a party. Got that bit yet?
Except, it can only recreate a certain number of the effects. Without knowledge of how it operates, the all of the exact effects can't be recreated.
So? Culture technology allows to recreate the effects of Treknology, even if the science isn't the same.
Then, tell me how it can know all of the effects when the method of operation is unknown? There are only a few things that are known of the effects. Disintegration of matter? The effect on the surrounding environment is unknown, as is how matter is disintegrated.
The Ability to produce their technology was meant to show that the Federation technology is vastly inferior to the Cultures, but you seemed to ignore that point rather nicely, so is shall state it again, Federation Military Tech was Recreated for a Party.
Irrelevent. Inferior or not is not the issue. What the comparissons are and how they can be used is.
Banks said Time Travel is physically impossible in his universe, this isn't something the Minds ever actually mention, but something that Banks said. The Culture Universe doesn't allow for Time Travel Physically.
You say the Minds are dumb because they ruled out a Technology that Banks has stated was physically impossible. Congrats, your an idiot.
And with all their brains, they have no knowledge of time travel physics. We know that with a warp drive, you can time travel by slingshotting around the sun. If they coldn't recreate all of it, they won't know how it all works for a couple reasons:
1. Spock never said all the calculations on screen, nor has anyone else.
2. If the Minds are incapable of using time travel, that means they can't understand the physics. And yet, beings with less intelligence than Minds understand enough to do it.
3. It is an example of something that, while impossible to The Culture, is not for the Federation. They know whys and hows. What the Culture doesn't is on the subject.
Sadly for the Feds the thing they lack isn't going to matter one Iota when it comes to combat, since the things the Federation lack are much more important.
It's this kind of thinking that led to the creation of an exhaust shaft that leads directly to the reaction chamber.
For what? Setting limits on his universe? Making damn good stories and not fucking it up with inane Time Travel Plots half way through an established technology base? keeping himself to a higher standard then the writers of Trek who gave up on keeping anything sensical or consistant and just threw it all together in a string of plotlines?
For setting the limit. That would have been obvious to everyone because of what I had said before it. It's got nothing to do with the quality of stories anyone writes.
I think I shall, but its not the same sort of Blame I cast on you for giving Star Trek Debaters everywhere a bad name.
Exactly, because we can't ever have differing opinions on things. We've got to be aaaaaaall the same.
Books are Canon, as are things such as his "There is no Time Travel in my Universe", however the No time Travel thing is not a factor in debates against universe where Time Travel is used Commonly in the setting.
You so need to rewrite this. Everything makes sense until it says 'against universe'. Time travel doesn't work in the Culture, so are you talking about Trek? It isn't that common in Trek. I'd say a place it's common is the Whovian'verse.
Now GStone
Now Anisarian
I like how people do this as if I wouldn't be able to notice it in its unbolded state.
Throughout this Debate you have spouted reasonable about how the Culture will get destroyed, how it would loose.
Here it comes. Really, I don't see you actually feeling that I've been reasonable so far.
Here is what you have to prove to us. If you cannot prove the following with quotes then I, and everyone else arguing, will accept it as the closest we are going to get to a concession and move on.
If you want. I just realized I missed the 4:30 showing of The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, but I still have 2 more times tonight before I go to bed, unless they fuck with the schedule.
Prove the Following:
(1) That the Federation can produce enough of these weapons, as well as equipt enough of their fleets to fight the Sleeper Service and her 90,000 strong fleet within the time it takes the Sleeper Service to cross the Entirety of Federation Space (12 Days roughly)
That's pretty high for what I've been talking about. Eh, one ship with a replicator should be able to do it. That hadn't been my argument at all.
(2) That your 'Gravitaional Gridfire' is stronger then the weaponry that is thrown around against Culture Warships.
This is also unnecessary, at least in the primary reasoning. What would be required is gravitaional energy that is used to rip apart the components of the generators on board the ships, for things, like the trapdoor, fields, the Minds, etc. While the Minds do exist partially in hyperspace to help with their heightened speeds, a part of them does exist in real space.
Since phasing in may as well be Displacing in, the only thing this is going to do to suprise a Culture Warship is give off more energy then their own weapons.
Not quite. Displacement uses wormholes, last I heard. This type of phasing doesn't use a wormhole. The energy is sent on a delay, so that it can once again interact with the phase of the other side in normal space.
Prove Federation can mass Produce Death Star level Planet killers to kill Culture ships.
The replicator and its big brother, the industrial replicator.
(3) Prove that the Federation can match Culture Reaction Speeds.[/quote]
Not required. Since you're giving this 12 day thing a shot, that's plenty of time to go back to being phased or start the phasing device up. That is really all that's required to get the plan underway and out of the reach of the Culture stuff.
As it is, you haven't done this, and we have provided quotes showing the entire battle with the Killing Time Taking 11 Microseconds.
Because it hasn't been necessary. You're insisting that things in this match up only go in a certain set direction. That's a limitation that was not set by the opening post and because it wasn't set there, makes to sense for me to limit my argument to such a thing.
To give you an idea, stop watches don't usually measure in lengths that long unless they are specialty science Gear. Prove that anything in the Federation, Excluding Q can react that fast.
An electron can move 1.33m in 5.8 microseconds. And that's without any
stupid technology!!!!!!!
If you can prove all that with Quotes showing each we may actually look into this debate a little more. If not, we accept your Concession.
Your insistence on these particular quotes is unnecessary. And you still don't have my concession.