Alderaan, & problems with planetary shield claims

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Alderaan, & problems with planetary shield claims

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:24 pm

The Alderaan shield argument, and how eventually, it would be used to explain the delay.

One of the most tiring efforts people of the side I belong to - which doesn't mean Trek side - have to go through is ask, again and again, how a supposedly DET weapon like the superlaser can - according to some people and a certain old EU source - fail to make the whole planet explode as it's still hitting it, and how the final, bigger, explosion does occur after almost a whole second, which can be easily noticed without going through the video frame by frame.

Among many attempted explanations, comes the planetary shield argument.
Of course, for any self respected EU fan, a planetary shield over Alderaan is a given. For any purist, this is nothing more than a mere preposterous claim with no backing up.

But let's assume that there is a shield, there, covering the whole planet.

For this little article, I'll use the data available on Robert's site, on these two pages: 1, 2.

The idea, as I understand it, is that the beam was stopped - temporarily - by the shield, before the shield failed to cope with the whole overwhelming energy.

Here's a list of the issues that lay within this thesis of some sort:
  1. Only one generator for the whole shield?

    It is a peculiar idea. While it would be necessary to explain how the final and most destructive explosion occured on the other side of the planet, how does this mesh with multiple other EU references about planetary shields, which point out that this is never the affair of one single generator only, but rather a patchwork of several generators?
    Why would the generator on the other side of Alderaan be the one to fail, and not the ones located midway, between the point of impact, and the side of Alderaan which faced the Death Star?
    Why would the most distant generator fail, while the others did not?
    More specifically, why would the generator, that comes last in the process of coping with the energy, fail, while the ones that intervened before, didn't fail?

    Makes no sense.
    One would have to argue that the last generator suffered from a mechanical failure at some point.

    The implication of this is fairly humorous, as it would mean that a Death Star has not enough firepower to destroy a properly and fully shielded planet in one shot, and that what happened to Alderaan was only the cause of a really odd mechanical failure, occuring within a chain of units which all worked perfectly!


  2. The beam does go through the shield

    As we can see on frame 1, frame 2 and frame 3, a significant surface of the planet, the one facing the Death Star, is set on fire, to put it simply.

    So the beam does go through the shield.
    This is an incredible phenomenom, since Saxton's sink hole and wattage numbers, it is a very binary problem that we have on our hands: either the shield fails, or it does not.
    So why does suddenly a zone of a shield, utterly pierced in between one and three frames, would still supposedly manage to stop a large percentage of the beam's power, when that zone of the shield precisely failed so quickly?

    That is funny. It would mean that a shield can actually let a percentage of the energy that hits it pass through.
    Of course, we're speaking about a high power here, but I'm sure this idea wouldn't please everybody.
    Well, the partially working shield would have been possible with the idea that a shield is not a dilemna affair, but this latest theory has become the fact recently, within certain vocal warsie groups.

    Besides, there is a problem here. In the EU, one torpedo sphere can put a hole in a planetary shield, in a small surface that's generally weaker than the whole surface, sometimes even up to 20%, but not always. They saturate that zone with enough firepower to poke a hole on the surface of a planetary shield, so other bombard ships, and even the torpedo sphere, can finish off the nearby generator and destroy it before it can even recover from the attack.
    Yet a torpedo sphere's complete arsenal, no matter the wank, hardly comes close to even a small fraction of e38 joules (not even many orders of magnitude below e32 joules).
    So how can a superlaser, that is worth of more than e38 joules, fail to completely destroy the planet from the moment it goes through the shield?

    With the fact that according to the EU, a planetary shield is a generator-network affair, let's consider another problem here.

    See, more 40% of the planet's surface around the impact point is bathed in white plumes of plasma, and debris are already sent out in space (not counting the already appearing ring - why would it appear if the shield is still withstanding the energy?).
    How the hell is the local generator, located on this side of the planet, on the utterly slagged hemisphere, supposed to still be effective and handle all that still remains of the beam that has not impacted yet?
    There are still two frames worth of superlaser to hit the planet; last frame before the last bit of the superlaser is completely engulfed in the white hot matter.
    And yet, we should believe that a generator, under here, is still holding on?
    That pretty much shoots down the idea that the beam was that powerful, in terms of pure direct energy transfer, and literally pins down, helpless, the idea that the tail of the beam was more powerful than the head, as claimed by some enthusiasts.


  3. The shield generator's own energy

    The shield withstood the beam's energy for nearly a whole second. So they say.
    And then, it conceded. Of course, a shield which could handle a superlaser for nearly a whole second, must have tremendous reserves of reactant to produce the necessary energy for the shields, to work against such a vast amount of destructive energy.
    Which in the light of the latest EU, must be understood as vast amounts of hypermatter, which is annihilated (according to the E2 ICS, nevermind if the TPM novelisation clearly says that fusion powers everything in Star Wars).
    And what precisely would happen, you know, when the whole place explodes?
    Wouldn't there be a very large chance that the generator's own reserves largely contributed to the final explosion?
    Of course, yes.
    But I guess we'll ignore that as well.


  4. Shield resistance against nothing

    There's a problem in that. What would the shield have to withstand for nearly a second, while there was no beam hitting the shield anymore?

    In the light of the wattage/sinkhole model, the shield could have never failed, nearly one second after beam impact, if the dissipation was nearly immediate.
    Precisely, how could the generator on the other hand of the planet still receive even more energy, so at one point is would saturate, if the beam was not hitting the shield anymore since quite some time?
    It would mean that the channeling of energy, from one side of the planet to the other side, where the opposite generator is, takes nearly one second.

    The problem is as follows:
    They agree on the sink hole model for shields. The ICS itself cites shield dissipation rates, which would make no sense if they were not tied to capacitors which can pile only a finite amount of energy; obviously, several times what the shield can dissipate.
    It's actually simple. Since the beam utterly failed to explode the planet while it was still htting the shield, then there is zero reason that the shield would fail long after the beam is gone. Especially one second later.
    The sink hole model requires that a capacitor gathers the energy from enemy fire, and dissipates it at a given wattage.
    If you fill the capacitor faster than it can bleed off energy, it will soon reach overload and burn.
    So if the Death Star's beam fails to overload the capacitor, it's simply impossible, according to this system, that the same capacitor would suddenly overload one second later, while it's been doing fine for a whole second after the last bit of the beam impacted.
    Basically, we're left with an oddity, where for some funny reason, the shield decided to stop working, while it was doing fine beforehand.


  5. The absuridty of channeling that much energy inside, just to fire it back

    Probably one of the Wongies/Saxtonians' "best" idea, is that the energy is sucked, and radiated as harmless neutrinos. That's the way shields work. Apparently. There's like a vast "volume" of undefined dimensions, that catches any bolt that moves in close to a ship. Yes, I know, that is stupid.
    Why bother catching a bolt that will miss your ship, especially since the films show that the shields can tightly hug the hull?
    But let's leave that aside, and assume they're just oh so right.

    Can this work? Well, of course, it all depends how charged a neutrino is. No matter how you look at it, even if neutrinos are very low interactivity particles, if you put near e38 joules of energy in neutrinos, and fired them within an atmosphere within a couple of seconds, it would still set the planet on freakin' fire!
    So why take the risk of having a generator that draws all the nasty stuff into itself, to reradiate it as neutrinos afterwards?
    That is just absurd, and pointlessly dangerous. Not to say overcomplex.
    Simply put, since the shield can channel the energy, along a curved surface (the shield), and direct it into itself, why simply not reroute it directly into space instead?
    Don't ask. I suppose that's one of the Moff's most prized secrets behind the grandeur of imperial's technology.

    But let's pretend, for a moment, that the shield does capture that energy, and dumps it into neutrinos, and reradiates it. Aka fires it up.
    The shield generator is on the ground. Right.
    So the stream or neutrinos, no matter how spread over a given area (which starts around the shield emitters anyway, so it's pretty focused at the beginning), has to go through the atmosphere.
    And that much energy put into neutrinos, even a quarter, or "just" e29, radiated through the atmosphere, is still going to end up in pretty nasty fireworks.
    Basically, if the shield generators really worked that way, and if they really held on for fractions of a second against the mighty power of the superlaser, we should have seen, at least, nation sized flares on the surface of Alderaan anywhere a shield generator would have been located.
    The film, however, clearly shows that a side of the planet is only affected until late in the process.
    It doesn't even mesh with how fast the so called shield flares up, which would point out a rather near immediate spread of the superlaser's energy over the whole surface.
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:50 am, edited 12 times in total.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:35 am

I reordered the chapters, so they'd make more sense, notably since it was required to adress the network nature of planetary shielding, in the EU, to follow on with a take on the surviving generator which can handle planetary hemisphere slagging firepower levels.

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:20 am

I have once done my own frame by frame investigation -
  • Image
- and that before I have known that there is a Robert Scott Anderson or DarkStar or 2046 or however he is called or is calling himself or that there is a side like the really good side about the The Alderaan Planetary Shield Falsehood.

My own and impartial conclusion was that there is no shield.

From the frames above, rellevant are only the frames 10 till 14:
  • Image
If there would be a shield, it could only be seen in these frames.

The most relevant frames would be the frames 11 and 12.

The frame 11 is the frame in which the Death Star Beam hasn't yet hit Alderaan and in the next frame, frame 12, Alderaan is already hit.

It was of interesst to me, if the seen glow in the dark part of the planet indicates a shield.

But a simple circle around the planet proves that the glow is merely a by the Death Star Beam illuminated part of Alderaan that was liying in the shadows:
  • Image
That is especially good to see in the magnification of both frames:
  • Image
As everyone can see, there is nothing out of the circle which surround Alderaan.





But there is more evidence:

The Death Star Beam is causing an illumination of the clouds of the planet.

As the follwoing frames and there magnifications are showing, the illumination follows in the beginning only the clouds:
  • Image
We can observe the same phenomena between all frames:
  • Image
This phenomena seems - at least to me - to contradict that there is a shield. It seems that these clouds are absorbing energy from the Death Star Beam and are dispensing it along themselfs. But that would only be possible if there is no shield.

I can't understand how someone can claim that these frames are showing that Alderaan has had a shield.

I see no indications for such a claim.

But by all means with this pisctures the existence of a shield can't be proven. At the best they could be termed as ambiguous - but not as a proof.

Furthemore, I think that if Lucas has wanted that there is a planetary shield, it would be clearly visible in the movie and it would be clearly mentioned in the novelization.



What I find interessting is that I independently from the aforementioned Robert Scott Anderson have come to the same conclusion on almost the same way.

But maybe that isn't really a too big coincidence. After all, logic is always the same.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:49 pm

Arguably, the best evidence is about the blue ring that can be seen around the poles:

http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Spec ... ow03sm.jpg

http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Spec ... ow04sm.jpg

It is not conclusive. One would say that it is the the planetary shield lighting up. Others would say that it is a cloud layer or light reflection of some sort.
Basically, there couldn't be a consensus.

More problematic is the idea that the shield would hug the planet so closely. It means that the upper layers of atmosphere could be poisoned, or filled with debris and devices that would be stuck in the planet's gravity well, literally making it impossible for the shielded planet to safely turn the shield off.

There's also the strange idea that planetary shield need a hell of a time to be brought online.
That's very bad, considering that planetary assaults are ought to be flash operations, especially when we know that the key is to shoot down the generators as fast as possible.

Last but not least, the utter lack of shielding on Naboo, Geonosis or even Coruscant clearly shows that the EU really departed a lot from the higher canon on that point.
The Coruscant case is interesting, because every little tiny bit of pointless and irrelevant stuff about the planet is mentionned in a way or another, notably orbital mirrors, but we get nothing about planetary shields, even if the whole battle is said to happen precisely because of them.
Besides:

"The dayside surface of the capital planet was shrouded in smoke from a million fires touched off by meteorite impacts of ship fragments; far too many had fallen to be tracked and destroyed by the planet's surface-defense umbrella. The nightside's sheet of artificial lights faded behind the red-white glow from craters of burning steel; each impact left a caldera of unimaginable death."

But that's a bit side topic to my initial point, in that I went through logic and analysis of EU lore to see how the planetary shield made sense in the light of Alderaan's destruction, while leaving the classical bickering aside.

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Post by Praeothmin » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:51 pm

I don't remember in which thread I had mentioned it, but the only mention of planetary shielding for Coruscant comes from the Zahn trilogy novels, when he makes the Senate believe he has launched a multitude of cloaked asteroids on the planet...

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Arguably, the best evidence is about the blue ring that can be seen around the poles:
  • Image

    Image
It is not conclusive. One would say that it is the the planetary shield lighting up. Others would say that it is a cloud layer or light reflection of some sort.
Basically, there couldn't be a consensus.
I understand the problem. But if that would be a shield glowing, it would be too late.

In the frames before, the frames I have above examined in detail, the clouds are already absorbing energy from the Death Star Beam. If there would be a shield, it should be visible already in these frames.

Fact is, that the latter frame is frame 15 of all above shown frames from the destruction of Alderaan.

It's the first frame in which Alderann is continuing glowing over its own size. In all later frames, these glowing is only increasing and results in the explosion.
  • Image
If that would be the shield glowing, one would expect that it stop to glow in the moment the shield is destroyed.

But the glowing is never decreasing. It leads directly in the explosion.

That's why it can't be a shield.


More problematic is the idea that the shield would hug the planet so closely. It means that the upper layers of atmosphere could be poisoned, or filled with debris and devices that would be stuck in the planet's gravity well, literally making it impossible for the shielded planet to safely turn the shield off.
Correct. I have that problem already adressed here in the thread Base Delta Zero.
    • Who is like God arbour wrote: To be an effective protection, such a shield would have to have its perimeter beyound the atmosphere.
      • On the one hand, it would be necessary, when such shield would have to be activated over a long period [e.g. during a siege], to not disturb the dynamics of atmospheric processes. A shield, which has its perimeter only some kilometers above the surface of its planet, would cause serious disruptions in these.
      • On the other hand, when there is still atmoshpere beyond the shield, an attacker could simply use biological or chemical warfare to contaminate the atmosphere above the shield. These warfare would sink to the surface as soon as the shield is deactivated. A contamination of the exosphere, the uppermost layer of the atmosphere, would be enough, to achieve such a goal. Though, the exosphere is the only layer from the atmosphere, from that atmospheric gases, atoms, and molecules can, to any appreciable extent, escape into space, not all will escape and especially heavy chemical or biological molecules can sink to the surface of a planet from the exosphere.
      That's why a planetary shield, which should provide an effective protection, should have its perimeter above the exosphere, the uppermost layer of the atmosphere.

      On Earth, the upper boundary of the exosphere is at about 10,000 km above the Earth's surface. Therfore, the perimeter of the shield would have to form a sphere around an earthlike planet with a radius of circa 16'000 km [from geocentre to the surface (6'378 km) and from the surface to the upper boundary of the exosphere (10'000 km)]. That corresponds with an surface area of circa 3'521'058'974 km².

      [...]
A shield beyound the atmosphere would be about that far away from the planet:
  • Image
The inner circle would be at an altitude of about 1'000 km and the outer circle at an altitude of about 10'000 km above ground.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:28 pm

Praeothmin wrote:I don't remember in which thread I had mentioned it, but the only mention of planetary shielding for Coruscant comes from the Zahn trilogy novels, when he makes the Senate believe he has launched a multitude of cloaked asteroids on the planet...
Yes, it's precisely that.
His plan was twofold. All required the use of cloaking devices.

First, he had a cloaked TL cannon placed under just the shield. Then, after a long planning, training and further tests, he brings an ISD above Coruscant, and has a single TL fire towards the shield, precisely where the cloaked TL is.
The bolt hits the shield, but the cloaked cannon fires at the exact same moment.
It makes the Republic think that he's found a way through planetary shields.

Secondly, he placed several cloaked cargo sized asteroids in orbit of the planet. These asteroids, apparently, would keep bumping on the shield, and the danger they represented forbid the NR from lowering the shield.
They had to call extrasystem ships and release some dust to see the asteroids. A few ships were damaged in the operation, and I think one got destroyed.

The very stricking part of that is that first, the shield surface is extremely thin. So much that the cloaked TL can sit just underneath it, where the first TL bolt would hit.
It clearly demonstrates that a planetary shield surface is be very thin.

The other element is that this whole trick could have never worked if, like certain warsies claim, Coruscant had a sandwhich of shield layers.

The relevance is rather simple. If the aura/haze at the pole is supposed to be the shield reacting, then this shield is like tens of kilometers thick, if not more.
This is contradictory.



Who is like God arbour wrote:I understand the problem. But if that would be a shield glowing, it would be too late.
Not if the shield wears out like if you pulled a cloath from the other side of the planet.

However, if the generator in the hemisphere facing the DS are already destroyed - a requisite to have the shield fail over that part of the planet - then there would be a very severe problem here, as I pointed out in the OP.

See 2. The beam does go through the shield
In the frames before, the frames I have above examined in detail, the clouds are already absorbing energy from the Death Star Beam. If there would be a shield, it should be visible already in these frames.
On the other hand, if the clouds were really absorbing a huge amount of the beam's energy, the clouds in this picture, where the beam hit, would have already dramatically expanded.

That's why years ago, I suggested that the clouds lighting up was only a minor effect of the beam bleeding off some kind of energy, inducing a very minor ionization.
Of course, this would require the suggestion that the beam does not impart lots of energy to fluids.
This is not an outlandish idea, since even the EU has evidence that weapons such as turbolasers can be fired through water and keep their "coherency". So it would be particularily hypocrit from EUphiles to argue that point.
Which proves that the beam could largely be encapsulated, or at least work with similar exotic mechanisms when it comes to such near-zero interactions with fluids.

Fact is, that the latter frame is frame 15 of all above shown frames from the destruction of Alderaan.

It's the first frame in which Alderann is continuing glowing over its own size. In all later frames, these glowing is only increasing and results in the explosion.
  • Image
If that would be the shield glowing, one would expect that it stop to glow in the moment the shield is destroyed.

But the glowing is never decreasing. It leads directly in the explosion.

That's why it can't be a shield.
Yes, nothing adds up correctly.
More problematic is the idea that the shield would hug the planet so closely. It means that the upper layers of atmosphere could be poisoned, or filled with debris and devices that would be stuck in the planet's gravity well, literally making it impossible for the shielded planet to safely turn the shield off.
Correct. I have that problem already adressed here in the thread Base Delta Zero.
    • Who is like God arbour wrote:
      • [...]
      • On the other hand, when there is still atmoshpere beyond the shield, an attacker could simply use biological or chemical warfare to contaminate the atmosphere above the shield. These warfare would sink to the surface as soon as the shield is deactivated. A contamination of the exosphere, the uppermost layer of the atmosphere, would be enough, to achieve such a goal. Though, the exosphere is the only layer from the atmosphere, from that atmospheric gases, atoms, and molecules can, to any appreciable extent, escape into space, not all will escape and especially heavy chemical or biological molecules can sink to the surface of a planet from the exosphere.
      That's why a planetary shield, which should provide an effective protection, should have its perimeter above the exosphere, the uppermost layer of the atmosphere.

      On Earth, the upper boundary of the exosphere is at about 10,000 km above the Earth's surface. Therfore, the perimeter of the shield would have to form a sphere around an earthlike planet with a radius of circa 16'000 km [from geocentre to the surface (6'378 km) and from the surface to the upper boundary of the exosphere (10'000 km)]. That corresponds with an surface area of circa 3'521'058'974 km².

      [...]
On the other hand, the EU has the evidence of terraforming machines, and the ability to cleanse a world from pollution (the droids used by Vader on Honoghr were altered so they wouldn't do their job).
For an EUphile, that could be used to argue that the shield need not be so far from the surface.
That said, this same EUphile would still have to face all the other problems posed by the supposed existence of a planetary shield.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:27 pm

What I still get a chuckle from is how any explanation the pro-Wars people come up with still never adequately explains the the initial impact of the SL's glow conforming exactly into the irregular shape of that large grouping of clouds. A phenomena notable in both the SE and DVD SE versions.
-Mike

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:24 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:On the other hand, the EU has the evidence of terraforming machines, and the ability to cleanse a world from pollution (the droids used by Vader on Honoghr were altered so they wouldn't do their job).
For an EUphile, that could be used to argue that the shield need not be so far from the surface.
The problem with that objection is, that, if the atmosphere beyond the shield is contaminated with highly toxic biological or chemical warfare, the shield can't be deactivated to let out these terraforming machines.

In the moment one would deacivate the shield to let out these terraforming machines, the warfare - which till now would have been keeped out only by the activated shield and would therefore accumulate in a high concentration direct above the shield perimeter - would at once sink in the lower atmosphere and to the ground in less time these terraforming machines would need to decontaminate billions cubic metres atmosphere.

And when a biological warfare, a virus, a prion or other very advanced biological warfares reach the ecosystem, it's to late for terraforming machines. Whatever it is, it would proliferate and become to a pandemia.

And that would not only happen at one single location of a planet but everywhere so that a containment isn't possible.

With an only high enough advanced warfare, the whole ecosystem of the planet could be destroyed.

That's why it would be better to not deactivate the shield when the atmosphere beyound it is contaminated. But then, one can't send the own terraforming machines - even if one would have own terraforming machines at all.

One would need help from third parties.

One would have to ask other planets if they would be so nice to send their terraforming machines so that these could decontaminate the contaminated atmosphere beyound the shield so that one could finally deactivate the shield again.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:09 am

Who is like God arbour wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:On the other hand, the EU has the evidence of terraforming machines, and the ability to cleanse a world from pollution (the droids used by Vader on Honoghr were altered so they wouldn't do their job).
For an EUphile, that could be used to argue that the shield need not be so far from the surface.
The problem with that objection is, that, if the atmosphere beyond the shield is contaminated with highly toxic biological or chemical warfare, the shield can't be deactivated to let out these terraforming machines.

In the moment one would deacivate the shield to let out these terraforming machines, the warfare - which till now would have been keeped out only by the activated shield and would therefore accumulate in a high concentration direct above the shield perimeter - would at once sink in the lower atmosphere and to the ground in less time these terraforming machines would need to decontaminate billions cubic metres atmosphere.

And when a biological warfare, a virus, a prion or other very advanced biological warfares reach the ecosystem, it's to late for terraforming machines. Whatever it is, it would proliferate and become to a pandemia.

And that would not only happen at one single location of a planet but everywhere so that a containment isn't possible.

With an only high enough advanced warfare, the whole ecosystem of the planet could be destroyed.

That's why it would be better to not deactivate the shield when the atmosphere beyound it is contaminated. But then, one can't send the own terraforming machines - even if one would have own terraforming machines at all.

One would need help from third parties.

One would have to ask other planets if they would be so nice to send their terraforming machines so that these could decontaminate the contaminated atmosphere beyound the shield so that one could finally deactivate the shield again.
Either they ask someone to do it, or they try to open a small hole in the shield and let a few ships through.

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:55 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Either they ask someone to do it, ...
That's what I have just said.

The problem is, that that makes a planet dependent on the goodwill of other planets.


Mr. Oragahn wrote:... or they try to open a small hole in the shield and let a few ships through.
The question would be if it is possible to open a small hole in the shield without deactivating it at all.

As you have seen in my post, I presume that it is not possible to merely open a small hole.

You could have shown, if and how I'm mistaken.

I don't know what fantastic technology the EU provide. In the movies they even have no planetary shields let allone are able to open small holes in it.

In Episode 5, they had have a theatre shield. But even that they had have to deactivate totally when they have wanted to send their transporters through it. They couldn't merely open a small hole in it.

Why shall one assume that they are able to open small holes in planetary shields, if they would have them in the first place?

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:47 pm

Who is like God arbour wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Either they ask someone to do it, ...
That's what I have just said.

The problem is, that that makes a planet dependent on the goodwill of other planets.
Considering that only the most powerful planets have such shields, they're equally ought to have powerful allies or ties with political and military powers.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:... or they try to open a small hole in the shield and let a few ships through.
The question would be if it is possible to open a small hole in the shield without deactivating it at all.

As you have seen in my post, I presume that it is not possible to merely open a small hole.

You could have shown, if and how I'm mistaken.
I recently saw, a couple of times, claims that small holes were indeed opened in shields to let cannons fire through.
I don't know what fantastic technology the EU provide. In the movies they even have no planetary shields let allone are able to open small holes in it.
Arguably if they opened holes in shields, considering that 99% of shields are invisible, you couldn't tell.
In Episode 5, they had have a theatre shield. But even that they had have to deactivate totally when they have wanted to send their transporters through it. They couldn't merely open a small hole in it.

Why shall one assume that they are able to open small holes in planetary shields, if they would have them in the first place?
Can't remember the dialogue precisely.
I know they talked about keeping the shield low for the transports to depart.
They could have been worried that their enemy would fire through these holes.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:43 pm

Here's the dialog:


LEIA: All troop carriers will assemble at the north entrance. The
heavy transport ships will leave as soon as they're loaded. Only two
fighter escorts per ship. The energy shield can only be opened for a
short time, so you'll have to stay very close to your transports.


The shield does have to be lower apparently for both the transports and their escort starfighters to get through, as well as the ion cannon bolts.
-Mike

Cpl Kendall
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Post by Cpl Kendall » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:01 pm

That's a pretty ambigious line. Could mean either that the shield has to be dropped entirely or that it has a small hole opened in it. Doesn't the General say "prepare to open shield" later on?

*Edit: Yes he does:

RIEEKAN: Their primary target will be the power generators. Prepare to
open the shield.

Mike DiCenso
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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:16 pm

That's still pretty ambigous, as you say. However, when the ion cannon is fired, it is not long after and the bolts overtake and pass the transport and X-wings.

Unfortunately, there's nothing shown or mentioned about the ion cannon and the shields afterward to show us what happens... with or without transports and escort starfighters.
-Mike

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