Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

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sonofccn
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by sonofccn » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:24 pm

Picard wrote:
39 ships in peace time, yet sustained repeated losses numbering in the hundreds during the dominon war and was expected too lose "thousands" taking Cardassia Prime.
I don't remember "thousands"... do you have a quote?
Absolutely
Dogs of War DS9 season 7 wrote:ROSS: And with a smaller perimeter they're less vulnerable to hit and run attacks. It would take a major offensive to break through their lines.
VELAL: At a cost of thousands of ships. The wiser course would be to simply contain them within their perimeter.
SISKO: That's what they're hoping we'll do, give them time to rebuild their forces.
Okay its for the entire F-K-R allied fleet but still.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:28 pm

1,300 fed ships got busted at one point during the war with a hundred or so returning

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:10 pm

sonofccn wrote:
Picard wrote:
39 ships in peace time, yet sustained repeated losses numbering in the hundreds during the dominon war and was expected too lose "thousands" taking Cardassia Prime.
I don't remember "thousands"... do you have a quote?
Absolutely
Dogs of War DS9 season 7 wrote:ROSS: And with a smaller perimeter they're less vulnerable to hit and run attacks. It would take a major offensive to break through their lines.
VELAL: At a cost of thousands of ships. The wiser course would be to simply contain them within their perimeter.
SISKO: That's what they're hoping we'll do, give them time to rebuild their forces.
Okay its for the entire F-K-R allied fleet but still.
And there is fact that, when Breen came in, entire Breen-Dominion-Cardassian alliance had ~30 000 ships. Meaning that 6 000 - 12 000 capital ships for Starfleet is entirely reasonable - maybe up to 30 000 if you assume they didn't pull everything they had to fight Dominion (there are still Tholians etc.). And lets not forget registry numbers, which give 70 000+ vessels built from formation of Federation until Dominion War - and that includes runabouts.
1,300 fed ships got busted at one point during the war with a hundred or so returning
It was quite regular occurence during first part of the war, until DS9 was retaken.

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mojo
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:55 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
MauriceWindows wrote:
mojo wrote:lucas says that the newest versions of the films always make up the canon, and in the blu-ray versions (which are of course the newest versions) both quotes still exist, one cannot supersede the other..
They're unchanged from their prior versions in this respect, therefore they're not "newer versions," and so my argument stands.
A newer edition is a newer edition. Period.
Even if there's only a 0.0001% change.
So when you compare stuff, it's latest edition OT and PT.
thank you.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:57 pm

i do apologize for my rudeness and repeating the same argument five times in slightly different ways. i have a tendency to enjoy sfj while not fully.. sober.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:04 pm

even with swst, though, it would be nice if mike didn't simply lie. it's not as if it's otherwise impossible to show him up.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by KSW » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:58 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
MauriceWindows wrote:
mojo wrote:lucas says that the newest versions of the films always make up the canon, and in the blu-ray versions (which are of course the newest versions) both quotes still exist, one cannot supersede the other..
They're unchanged from their prior versions in this respect, therefore they're not "newer versions," and so my argument stands.
A newer edition is a newer edition. Period.
Even if there's only a 0.0001% change.
So when you compare stuff, it's latest edition OT and PT.
WTF are you babbling about? If there's a 0.0001% change, then ONLY that .0001% is new, since that's the ONLY thing that's changed! The rest is still OLD!

You must be a Dr. Who fan, because your logic is TARDIS.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by KSW » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:00 pm

mojo wrote:i do apologize for my rudeness and repeating the same argument five times in slightly different ways. i have a tendency to enjoy sfj while not fully.. sober.
Yeah I was about to ASK what you're on, claiming that some minor change in a blu-ray release in 2011, somehow updates everything ELSE on it which is still the same as it was in 1977.
You've GOTTA be high!

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by KSW » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:07 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:
MauriceWindows wrote:
Kira specifically said it was Trilithium-- or is that the same thing?
o.
yeah but a star buster needs proto matter to work effectively and they did revive a dead star with one earlier.

also proto matter weaponized was so wide spread even the Maquis of all people got atheir hands on some and used it to blast apart a freighter in one ep
In "Generations," Soren (sp?) just used Trilithium, there was no mention of proto-matter.
Reviving a dead star is different, since you've got to get it producing energy; meanwhile Trilithium STOPS fusion in an active star immediately, causing it to implode and all the hydrogen to go critical and fuse instantly, going nova.

Do you have a source for where the starbuster requires protomatter?

It's not really necessary though, let's be honest; if they had protomatter in Kirk's time, then by Picard's era it was bound to be as common as uranium ore in ours, i.e. we had it 100 years ago but didn't know how to use it like we do now.
And we see from volume alone, that it doesn't take much trilithium to bust a star; Sauren exploded over a dozen stars using just those little man-sized rockets.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:15 pm

SWST wrote:
Arguably true, but it should not be enough to outpace 10,000 years of advancement.
He means stagnation, rite?

I also think that a lot of the UFP's massive growth in star charting was due to gifts from its world members. Now that the UFP is less likely to extend, may eventually have to go through regions with political powers not so friendly, or simply not wanting to provide any data beyond what they deem acceptable for diplomatic options, the mapping will probably proceed incredibly slowly. And yes, it goes without saying that strong enemies and other unknown foes and possible space-time oddities will just prove even more encumbering.

Warp drives can be used to lower the mass of very large objects rather dramatically. Is it possible to actually increase by a similar magnitude as the one seen in Deja Q?
That would certainly be a rather easy way to mess up with hyperdrives.

Plus UFP ships can fire graviton beams, no? What are their top capacities?

Owen bought nearly scarp-droids from Jawas. Second hand stolen material. Prices aren't going to be excessively high compared to pristine machines.
Watoo had a few of those bullseye midget things and one protocol droid deactivated.
I don't think it's much of a problem to acquire droids in SW. It most likely depends on the needs and the culture. In TCWS we don't see much of them on the variety of worlds featured thus far. Droids seem largely prominent on Core Worlds, military worlds and those using slaves.

There is no need to bold trillions if it's cited in one source and just doesn't fit with the whole of Star Wars, SWST.

I also already told you that it is dishonest to claim that the Republic can quickly mobilize thousands of ships for Coruscant when it's Sidious who had given the hyperlane coordinates through the Core to Grievous, and that he was planning for a battle.
It was completely preplanned. The GAR ships were already waiting. Sidious organized the whole battle. He made his own vs scenario above Coruscant.
For fuck sake, we completely covered that point, stop rebooting it.

I couldn't find any mention of the Death Star construction time in SOTE, but I found that bit regarding Coruscant:
SOTE wrote:A planet whose surface was completely built over must have a big
foundation. In places, the vast complex of tunnels and artificial
caverns was a kilometer deep and continuing to go deeper. Here were
locales where the sun's rays never came, where blue-gray mold sometimes
grew ten centimeters thick on walls and ceiling, where the dank and
fecund air stank permanently of fungal rot-and worse.
It's not that deep everywhere.

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mojo
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:25 am

MauriceWindows wrote:
mojo wrote:i do apologize for my rudeness and repeating the same argument five times in slightly different ways. i have a tendency to enjoy sfj while not fully.. sober.
Yeah I was about to ASK what you're on, claiming that some minor change in a blu-ray release in 2011, somehow updates everything ELSE on it which is still the same as it was in 1977.
You've GOTTA be high!
oh my god. i wasn't conceding. BOTH QUOTES ARE ON THE SAME FUCKING LEVEL OF CANON. get it through your skull. it's the same goddamn level. neither supersedes the other. do you even UNDERSTAND the fact that all six movies are part of the same story? do you UNDERSTAND that all six movies are g-canon? stop being purposefully ignorant. it's irritating.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:27 am

is this how swst feels? this is ridiculous. obi-wan says 1,000 generations. this statement is canon. palpatine says 1,000 years. this statement is canon. the fact that palpatine's statement was recorded at a later date DOES NOT invalidate the canon status of obi-wan's quote and IS NOT a fucking retcon. for the fifth time, i provide evidence for this statement: in the newest version of the ot, which was released THE SAME DAY as the newest version of the pt and is ACTUALLY BUNDLED WITH IT, obi-wan's statement as to 1,000 generations REMAINS IN THE FILM. therefore, as it STILL EXISTS WITHIN G-CANON, IT STILL EXISTS AS G-CANON. very simple, really. you are arguing that a contradiction between two statements with the same level of canon can be decided by which statement was made after the other. please stop. it doesn't make sense and it doesn't work.
i am not arguing FOR obi-wan's statement as truth. i am arguing that we cannot say for certain which is true because both exist as g-canon statements. you have yet to make one relevant statement. bow out.
Last edited by mojo on Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by KSW » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:08 am

You've admitted that lucas says that the newest versions of the films always make up the canon.

A DVD-release with the original script unchanged is not a "new version." It's the old version with a better picture.
Last edited by KSW on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:27 am

MauriceWindows wrote:
mojo wrote:is this how swst feels? this is ridiculous. obi-wan says 1,000 generations. this statement is canon. palpatine says 1,000 years. this statement is canon. the fact that palpatine's statement was recorded at a later date DOES NOT invalidate the canon status of obi-wan's quote and IS NOT a fucking retcon.
Uh, yeah it really does, and yeah it really is. The OT statement was made in 1977, the PT statement in 2005. NEITHER ONE CHANGED. EVER.
A retcon is short for RETROACTIVE CONTINUITY, the alteration of previously established facts in a fictional work.


It was established in 1977 that the Republic lasted for 1000 generations, and in 2005 that it lasted for 1000 years. That's a RETCON.

It isn't RE-established just because it was released on a fricking DVD, unchanged from the original!
Geez what drugs were you taking to become "not sober?"
Whatever they are, come back when you are.
you are intentionally misinterpreting evidence and disregarding evidence given. the simple fact is that your argument is invalid because your assumptions are incorrect - there is no retcon. the fucking fact that the quotes have not changed PROVES MY FUCKING CASE. if lucas meant for the republic to be 1,000 years old rather than 1,000 generations old, rather than the fucking truth which is that he fucking forgot his own shit, then THE FUCKING QUOTE WOULD BE CHANGED TO MATCH THE PREQUEL QUOTE. THIS IS THE ONLY CASE IN WHICH WE COULD ACCEPT THE 1,000 YEARS QUOTE AS A RETCON OF THE 1,000 GENERATIONS QUOTE. either you get it and you're debating dishonestly, or you don't have the ABILITY to get it. it's hard to believe that a reg on this board could be that fucking stupid, so i have to assume the former. this is the sixth time i have explained this to you. you STILL have yet to provide evidence that you even understand what i am saying, much less provide evidence that disproves it. i will not respond again unless you say something that makes a difference.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by mojo » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:30 am

MauriceWindows wrote:You've admitted that lucas says that the newest versions of the films always make up the canon.

A DVD-release with the original script unchanged is not a "new version." It's the old version with a better picture.
THAT'S THE POINT, MAURICE. THE NEWEST VERSION IS CANON. THE GODDAMN BLU-RAY VERSION IS THE NEWEST VERSION. THERE ARE CHANGES TO THE MOVIES, THERE IS A THREAD ON THIS VERY FUCKING FORUM THAT LISTS SOME OF THEM. CHANGES=NEW FUCKING VERSION. IF THE DIALOGUE IS UNCHANGED, THEN IT FUCKING STANDS AS CANON. jackass.

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