The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

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Kor_Dahar_Master
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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:12 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote: That's not my point.
You have no fucking point.

You both broke the rules and both deserve a infraction, you however have done it more in the past and as the rules are clear if the infractions add up to a ban then you get one.

He is not responsible for your lack of self control or your actions YOU ARE 100% and not only for this infraction but also for ALL those others you have done in the past that add up to the ban.

If his infractions ever add upto a ban i can guarantee he will get banned and from what i know of him i would bet he would support him getting one for doing so.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:17 pm

As I expected, you decided to claim that I have "no fucking point" while ignoring the part of my point that actually states my point.

You can at least quote and respond to my actual point, no matter how "bad" or "pointless" you think it is.

Instead, you go on a ramble completely changing the subject and restating your original position.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:42 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:As I expected, you decided to claim that I have "no fucking point" while ignoring the part of my point that actually states my point.

You can at least quote and respond to my actual point, no matter how "bad" or "pointless" you think it is.

Instead, you go on a ramble completely changing the subject and restating your original position.
He is not responsible for your lack of self control, he did not hack and use your account for that or any other of the many infractions you have done.

I do not give a crap if he baited you, or tricked you or did any other shit you think is important because:

HOW YOU REACT TO SUMMAT IS ALL YOU AND NO ONE ELSE, YOU KNOW THE FUCKING RULES AND BROKE THEM ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS AND IF HE HAD AS MANY INFRACTIONS TO JUSTIFY IT HE WOULD AND SHOULD GET A BAN AS WELL.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:50 pm

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Admiral Breetai
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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:36 pm

oh good god SWST I refuse to believe you can't possibly grasp what Kor and I have been trying to drill into your head now...

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:32 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:
Kor_Dahar_Master wrote: PS: it is not a golden mean fallacy it is basic math, you broke the rules more than he did so after tallying up infractions you get a ban and he does not. YOU would go fucking apeshit if the situation was reversed and his added upto a ban but did not get one and do not deny it.
That's not my point. He's giving the impression that his motive is being humble and admitting that he should get warned, but also admitting that I should get warned to appeal to golden mean. However, his motive is because he did basic math (as you pointlessly say), and did this to get me banned while claiming that it's "fair". It's true that basic math adds up to this (me getting banned and him getting off, as if a mod could get banned) and that's the entire point!

You act as though golden mean cannot go together with basic math. Basic math is how he formulated the golden mean plot, there's no contradiction.
OH MY GOD, SWST CAN READ MY MIND AND KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT ME!



Or not... :)

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:42 pm

I like how I've butted heads with the mods JMS included way more and more rudely then SWST but no mod has taken bullets to bring me down...

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by User1655 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:50 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:instead of the Rebellion...they face the united fronts of the Dommies..the UFP and their Aq/BQ allies..

Wormholes in Dominion space, the allies all have use of QSD/transwarp ..the UFP's entire industry is in full war footing as is the Dominions neither side will be holding back...WMD's and stolen tech will be used by both sides

full blood lusted all out war

which side takes this?

edit-stipulations because I actually want a good thread..tech of the week excluded..time travel outlawed..I'll sport them what Janeway brought home and what ever they stole from the Borg and other ancient races..and what ever WMD's they've shown to have had access too and built in the past

the rest leave it
One changeling with a phaser could do it by getting officers alone, zapping them with a phaser and taking their place, until they replaced the Emperor with a Changeling.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:57 pm

Hey, here's a foolproof method of any Star Wars galactic civilization trumping an Alpha Quadrant civilization!

Get a bunch of ships (25,000 ISD's + likely millions of smaller vessels, as evidenced by every sector having a fleet)

Arm them with fusion warheads so that you don't have to argue turbolaser yield.

Hyperspace and jump out a few ships a few hundred million kilometers away from every Federation/Dominion/etc planet.

Launch several thousand nuclear missiles at the planet, or just crippling parts of it, whichever one fits the mission.

Watch the nuclear holocausts begin.



Potential objections:

Where do they get enough ships? - The ISD's alone outnumber the amount of, say, Federation planets. One alone is big enough to store several thousand nukes.

Where do they get enough nukes? - even most Trekkies concede that fusion technology is very, very, very common in Star Wars, so much that random citizens can afford fusion powered starships.

How do they find the ST planets? - just get it by bribing a random ST traveler. It's not as if, say, the Federation keeps planet locations secret; Archer sent the coordinates to Earth to a random alien race they just contacted.

How do they plot the hyperspace routes? - they don't need hyperspace routes, and even if they did it's really just a matter of time.

Why can't the Federation strike back? - because warp drive is slow, there are too many SW planets (planets outnumber ships in this case) and too many are shielded.

A hundred million kilometers? Wank! - not against a planet in a predictable orbit, no. Especially since cross-star-system firing against stationary targets/predictable targets have happened in NJO.

What about surviving ST ships and space stations? - >99% of the population would be dead, and the remaining ships and such couldn't do jack.

Why can't the planet's defenses intercept the missiles? - they have not shown the accuracy or reaction times to do such a thing, and they can't intercept all of the missiles.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:22 am

the only problem with that is...no such fleet in such numbers exists in SW canon

also a single GCS can likely pwn about six ISD's and planetary defenses would demolish any fleet in seconds

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Trinoya » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:00 am

*sigh* an uninformed and terrible post as usual.
StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Hey, here's a foolproof method of any Star Wars galactic civilization trumping an Alpha Quadrant civilization!
I'm waiting in anticipation.
Potential objections:

Where do they get enough ships? - The ISD's alone outnumber the amount of, say, Federation planets. One alone is big enough to store several thousand nukes.
Laughable. You have no clue what the number is for the total number of planets and you're just stating that they will basically have enough. You havn't even watched enough star trek to know what 'enough' is, unless you've been tanking it really hardcore since your first time here.

Where do they get enough nukes? - even most Trekkies concede that fusion technology is very, very, very common in Star Wars, so much that random citizens can afford fusion powered starships.
Tactics not generally used, or used as a one off tactic, or something that is not taught as a dedicated doctrine are not viable. We couldn't claim that the federation would fight with solar flares (even though this is a demonstrated capability) because they don't use it very often as a tactic. The Empire in T and G cannon do not utilize nuclear bombs for such purposes.

Their use in the EU is rare at best.

How do they find the ST planets? - just get it by bribing a random ST traveler. It's not as if, say, the Federation keeps planet locations secret; Archer sent the coordinates to Earth to a random alien race they just contacted.
You provide no peramiters to the nature of the link of the galaxies. You provide no data that anyone will actually provide them such information without an even exchange.

Furthermore, you provide absolutely no evidence as to how they make first contact with anyone in the first place. It's just as likely they encounter 8472 or the Borg before they encounter random civilization that just magically knows where all the dominion AND federation planets are.
How do they plot the hyperspace routes? - they don't need hyperspace routes, and even if they did it's really just a matter of time.
Citation needed. Dedicated hyperspace routes are absolutely critical to war efforst, furthermore hyperspace routes can be mined, blockaded, and other wise rendered useless in any manner of ways (gravity being one of them, something the fedreation has mastered to a heavy extent). You provide zero evidence and your claim, as such, is dismissed.
Why can't the Federation strike back? - because warp drive is slow, there are too many SW planets (planets outnumber ships in this case) and too many are shielded.
You provide no data for the nature of the theater of war, you can make no claim for if the federation can or can not strike back till then. Just because warp drive is 'slow' means nothing if the federation encounters the rebellion who preceed the empire and grant hyperdrive to all the races out of the kindness of their hearts. Making up shit is real easy.
A hundred million kilometers? Wank! - not against a planet in a predictable orbit, no. Especially since cross-star-system firing against stationary targets/predictable targets have happened in NJO.
So the missiles will just not be intercepted because? Once again you fail even the most basic form of common sense... all of this are magical wankaton missiles with wankaton shields impervious to attack because you say so.

What about surviving ST ships and space stations? - >99% of the population would be dead, and the remaining ships and such couldn't do jack.
Baseless assumption is baseless.
Why can't the planet's defenses intercept the missiles? - they have not shown the accuracy or reaction times to do such a thing, and they can't intercept all of the missiles.
Yes because you've clearly seen all of trek and know all their speed and reaction times, and politely ignore any thing that contradicts your vision of it.

Simply put, imho your entire post was full of nothing but BS. I mean low grade BS at that. This was low, even for you.

Answer honestly, have you seen all of ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and the movies? If not, maybe you should go watch some stuff first. For that matter have you seen all six movies, the clone wars cartoon, and read the thrawn triology at the very least in star wars... I have heavy doubts you understand ANY of the source material you reference, and you constantly seem to repeat nothing but same old arguments irregardless of how often they've been refuted.

Pick a single topic, don't pose useless scenarios, and actually open your mind up... maybe you'll find something more interesting than whatever on earth that pile of crap up there was supposed to be...


On a final note, I'm still waiting for your replies in several other threads, or have you conceded those points, accepted my accusations, or willingly decided not to provide evidence that I asked for?

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:10 am

to add to trinoyas post

the UFP has more than likely several thousand colony worlds in TOS the human race alone had a thousand worlds and during TNG they where radically expanding..in fact their expansion was such that they where reviving dead stars to create artificial solar systems during ds9

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by sonofccn » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:the only problem with that is...no such fleet in such numbers exists in SW canon
Well in his defense, oh brother, the 25,000 number is C-level and is admisible to certain parties. I don't have an issue with the EU but of course this is your thread and you can set up the "filter" on canon as you so desire.
Admiral Breetai wrote:also a single GCS can likely pwn about six ISD's and planetary defenses would demolish any fleet in seconds
Now no need to go overboard, ISD's have a lot of guns and fire very quickly. Even if each individual bolt may be underpowered volume will make the differnce and six should eat a solitary GCS. I'd even bet two could take one down, wether either will live through the experiance is another question.
StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Get a bunch of ships (25,000 ISD's + likely millions of smaller vessels, as evidenced by every sector having a fleet)
How many ships? The entire combined might of the starfleets? The vessels needed to keep order and hold the Empire togather? Just taking the one hundred and fifty "core worlds" and assuming you assign four star destroyers to each we are talking six hundred already and considering that for the planet Earth they can have a baker dozen's worth of starships on minutes notice you'd have to increase the strikeforce number far above the measly four little warships I posulated. To be blunt this little outing is a very resource intensive affair with questionable odds of success, hardly a trump card.
StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Arm them with fusion warheads so that you don't have to argue turbolaser yield.
That...that would require a lenghty overhaul to convert a notable number of warships from turbolasers to hauling fusion warheads, longer still to design and manufacture, distribute etc this warhead since while completely within their technology base they don't typically employ "torpedoes" for anything but strike craft weapons. You'd more or less be building from the ground up.
StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Hyperspace and jump out a few ships a few hundred million kilometers away from every Federation/Dominion/etc planet.
Tactical error in my opinion. The drop in should lit up every sensor in the system and at several hundred million kilometers the Federation would have several minutes if your torps could travel at lightspeed which they wouldn't be. More than long enough for some warships to drop in blow up your strike force, realize that there are a flock of torpedoes crawling towards a planet and putter along beside detonating them with phaser fire.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:20 pm

Unless an ISD using her guns at a constant rate can't output more than, say, 50~100 TJ per salvo.

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Re: The UFP and The Dominion Vs the GE

Post by sonofccn » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:31 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Unless an ISD using her guns at a constant rate can't output more than, say, 50~100 TJ per salvo.
Indeed. That would make the battle horrible lopsided since GCS torpedoes should be able to unleash tens of thousands of Terajoules even leaning on the side of caution. However I personally am of the opinion a turbolaser on average can throw downwind something in the order of four thousand Terajoules. :)

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