Split: Is it appropriate to say Wong is "hiding"?

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:30 pm

So the problem is there that Wong has a position, and you can only discuss with him by being forced to use a non-free email account.

I can understand the problem. Most people don't want to be forced to give an ISP related information only to engage into that kind of discussion, especially that kind of people (let's not fool ourselves, we've seen their behaviour, anyone is right to ask for a minimum of self defense, room to wiggle and protection).

Basically, there's some sort of barrier. It can be crossed, but it requires to lower your own defenses.
I perfectly understand why this is a problem and the original idea that's behind that thread.

A neutral and totally free talk ground would be the perfect place.

An exchange of emails, even from hotmail to hotmail if one of both parties want so should be acceptable.

Make proper and fair offers, and see how the other person reacts. Then you'll know if it's worth the hassle or not.

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Post by Ted C » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:58 pm

Who is like God arbour wrote:1.) I was member of his board and get banned after a few days. Now I'm again a member with a new user name. But I don't intend to risk this access. I use it only to see, what is happening on SDN.
So you basically broke the rules, got banned, and now lurk just to see what's going on.
Who is like God arbour wrote:2.) I'm convinced, that a real debatte at SDN is not possible. SDN has a unique attitude concerning how to debatte, which is so nowhere else to find. I estimate, that 90% of the posts at SDN in the Star Trek vs. Star Wars part of this board consist only of flames. In these posts, one doesn't find one single argument.
I'm convinced that such a debate is possible. I see them quite often. Posters there generally put some kind of argument into their posts if they don't want to get disciplined. Of course, they also throw a lot of flames (and Mike himself will add virulent flames to his first reponse as often as not), but the flame content doesn't change the fact that there's an argument.
Who is like God arbour wrote:3.) The size of his board is irrelevant. *snip lengthy details*
In a nutshell, there seem to be hundreds of active posters there, doing fine.
Who is like God arbour wrote:4.) Mike Wong is owner and administrator of this board. To debatte on his board would be a violation of the convention of a fair proceeding (especially considering Nr. 2 and 3), which would also apply to a debatte for the sake of its successful proceeding.
And exactly what would make debating here more fair?

As Mr. Oragahn has noted, you could always just debate by email, using an anonymous account if you so choose. You could expect the content to end up in Mike's Hate Mail pages, but you could post your own spin on it at a site of your choosing, as well.
Who is like God arbour wrote:5.) Mike Wong has no problem to look at other boards and flame persons from other boards, who aren't even members of his board and therefore aren't able to defend themself. That's not only dishonest but cowardly too. If he doesn't agree with them and he feels the urge to state this, he should do it in the board, in which the statement, with which he doesn't agree, was made and where he knows, that the debatters are able to defend themself because they can read his objection and have an access to answer them.
To my knowledge, Mike seldom looks at other boards; he just gets unsolicited reports from people who use them.

And given that most of the people he insults in response were sniping at him in the first place, I don't see that you have a point. Again, it's hypocritical to call him cowardly when you don't have the courage to face him with your arguments. Not knowing your old SDN ID, I'll give you the credit of assuming you did attempt to argue your point, but just didn't do it very convincingly.
Who is like God arbour wrote:6.) This subject was never discussed at SDN as far as I know. And he has only made an assertion without substance at the article "Engineering and Star Trek". If he would have arrived at his conclusions, he would have described these. He would have shown concretly, how he would build an warp core and how he would employ the "dead man's switch" principles wherever possible.
Well, you know you have multiple options for countering his arguments. You can post your rebuttal at SDN, send it by email, or even post it on a site of your own (like a free Blog, if nothing else) for others to see.

Insisting that he's a coward when he has a public website and participates in an active discussion board doesn't cut it, though.

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SailorSaturn13
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Post by SailorSaturn13 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:17 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:
SailorSaturn13 wrote:SDN is an Evil Sithy Lair with Emperor Darth Wong ruling it. A perfect protected area for Wong.
... an "Evil Sithy Lair?"

Er... if I knew if someone could take that statement seriously, I would be more sure as to whether or not I should be warning you for flaming right now or just laughing. That, and I half suspect the subject of that statement might actually like that characterization given all the "Darths" over there.

It's just that I find it hard to debate with someone who calls himself a Sith Lord. ESPECIALLY on his own board.

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Post by GStone » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:42 pm

Who is like God arbour wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
GStone wrote:there are loads of examples of people learning military tactics without being in the military
In other words, his military training was the tutorial level of Halo.
Ha. Shows what he knows. The last game I played was a computer one called 'Hardwar' and it wasn't that good for teaching tactics aside from running for your life when your power is low.

I was thinking of getting one of the Tom Clancy games 'cause I heard they were fun, but I haven't done it yet.
Darth Wong wrote:
GStone wrote:-Have I ever fired a gun? Answer: Yes.
-Did it take me long? Answer: No, I'm a natural shot.
-Have I ever fired a gun on someone? Answer: Yes.
-Have I ever been in a knife fight? Answer: Yes.
-Have I ever fought unarmed against someone with a gun or without one? Answer: Yes to both.
-Have I ever watched men die and/or were they part of the ones I've lead? Answer: Yes to both.'
GStone is Walker, Texas Ranger?
Oh, my god. He compared me to Walker, Texas Ranger? I feel so dirty.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:
SailorSaturn13 wrote:SDN is an Evil Sithy Lair with Emperor Darth Wong ruling it. A perfect protected area for Wong.
... an "Evil Sithy Lair?"

Er... if I knew if someone could take that statement seriously, I would be more sure as to whether or not I should be warning you for flaming right now or just laughing. That, and I half suspect the subject of that statement might actually like that characterization given all the "Darths" over there.
And that's one thing I've never understood. Why are there so many Darth etc. over there.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:59 pm

SailorSaturn13 wrote:
Jedi Master Spock wrote:
SailorSaturn13 wrote:SDN is an Evil Sithy Lair with Emperor Darth Wong ruling it. A perfect protected area for Wong.
... an "Evil Sithy Lair?"

Er... if I knew if someone could take that statement seriously, I would be more sure as to whether or not I should be warning you for flaming right now or just laughing. That, and I half suspect the subject of that statement might actually like that characterization given all the "Darths" over there.

It's just that I find it hard to debate with someone who calls himself a Sith Lord. ESPECIALLY on his own board.
Dude, it's just a nickname. Sith Lords are cool btw.

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Post by GStone » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:00 pm

Praeothmin wrote:What about you guys? :)
The chicks.

I do it for the groupies and smiting everyone of my enemies on the electronic battlefield. Mike thinks I'm a liar now...well, wait till he sees my uber-active smiley cannon with a repeating plasma-vitamin C-tinker toy-egg plant launcher underneath the main barrel.

You really gotta see the swath I lay waste to when I squeeze the rubber duckies!!!!!

[rubber duckie squeaks and large areas of terra ferma explode, hurtling the rubber duckie to another section, where it squeaks and that section blows, throwing the duckie]

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Trinoya
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Post by Trinoya » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:02 am

It's within his rights to stay on his board, it doesn't mean he is hiding. I would note that his claim of people here being uneducated is one of the most unbacked up claims I've ever seen. For the most part the educated of the world ignore this entire debate... but I'd be willing to bet if I got a government level scientist in here he'd be able to disprove 90% of the stuff he claims... notablly the fact that the educated join his side exclusively.

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Post by AnonymousRedShirtEnsign » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:35 am

God Arbour, while that is an interesting comparative essay, I'm not sure what it has to do with weather or not Wong is hiding at SDN. This seems to fit more into this thread -> http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 13&start=0 or in its own thread specifically about Mike Wong's behavior.

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Post by GStone » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:47 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
GStone wrote:
So, if I got an account such as "gstonesdn@gmail.com", you or someone else would go to Wong and he would say it's okay for me to join, if they vouched for the address?

I get the impression he wouldn't let me in.
Maybe if you promised to debate within the rules of the forum and not troll. You see when someone vouches for your behaviour then they assume responsibility for your actions. So I doubt that you or anyone else from this board are going to find someone to sponser them. But you can try. I certainly am not going to do it.
I took your use of the word 'vouche' to mean that the account is not a sock puppet.

Then, let me ask you a hypothetical? If there was a thread to discuss whether something new that's been mentioned as to the heirarchy of the Wars canon and what it means for the policy of the board/site over at SDN and if I continue to post the same views there that I have over here (and other posters keep saying again and again that I'm not paying attention, though at the same time, I am following the policy of the board in other threads and sticking to it), would I be accused of breaking the rules of the board and be accused of various things, like wall of ignorance, broken record, etc. etc.?

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Post by coyote » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:57 pm

Please bear in mind that one of the reasons Mike Wong has instituted the "free sign-up only for paid accounts" is also to cut down on useless invasions from other boards. We've been invaded by a group of racists from a white-supremacists board and other organized, but less worrisome, troll such as a group called "Elite Fitness".

Board invasions and trollishness are an unfortunate par for the course in the world of web-boarding, part of the terrain...

However, once upon a time we discovered a massive board called "Stormfront.org", a white-power website with, at the time, several thousand members. Considering the personal politics of many of us on the board (inter-racial relationships, athiests, Jews, gays, minority rights, etc) and the fact that white supremacist groups are known, in the past, of hunting down public personalities and assassinating them (see radio talk show host Alan Berg), it was decided best to put up a stumbling block to prevent casual abusers from wandering in and stirring trouble for no reason.

As for paid email accounts, I gotta say, I find them very handy. When I'm deployed, it may be weeks before I can get to a computer, and a paid account will store up messages, filter spam, and allow more attachments to get through than a free account. Plus it won't get deleted or "lose" things. For a measly few dollars a year, a paid account is a real boon.

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Post by coyote » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:09 pm

who is like God Arbour wrote:5.)
Mike Wong has no problem to look at other boards and flame persons from other boards, who aren't even members of his board and therefore aren't able to defend themself. That's not only dishonest but cowardly too. If he doesn't agree with them and he feels the urge to state this, he should do it in the board, in which the statement, with which he doesn't agree, was made and where he knows, that the debatters are able to defend themself because they can read his objection and have an access to answer them.
Isn't this a bit odd, considering I came here and saw all kinds of threads about "another horrible thread at SDN" and similar posts, before anyone from SDN had really come over here and said and did anything?

And then, when some of us do come over here to discuss mis-interpretations, it's considered a "board invasion"?

I mean... it's really as if there's just no way to break even.

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Post by coyote » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:13 pm

GStone wrote: You really have a problem with understanding the extent of the security hazard many on SDN are.

Tell me, would you want strangers coming up to your home, taking pictures of your home, the people your with, your family? That is what many at SDN have openly conspired to do and you think my real life security concerns not as important as I'm making them out to be?
Dude, you took down an armed man with your bare hands! Some random podunk calling and saying "yo momma!" through the phone would probably be laughable by comparison.

Hell, if a real "cyberstalker" came after me for some reason, between the Kenpo yellow belt (that's really low) and the 12-ga. buckshot backed up by Idaho's "castle doctrine" I feel perfectly secure.

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Post by Praeothmin » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:24 pm

Coyote wrote:
However, once upon a time we discovered a massive board called "Stormfront.org", a white-power website with, at the time, several thousand members. Considering the personal politics of many of us on the board (inter-racial relationships, athiests, Jews, gays, minority rights, etc) and the fact that white supremacist groups are known, in the past, of hunting down public personalities and assassinating them (see radio talk show host Alan Berg), it was decided best to put up a stumbling block to prevent casual abusers from wandering in and stirring trouble for no reason.
A very prudent move...

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Post by GStone » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:40 pm

coyote wrote:Please bear in mind that one of the reasons Mike Wong has instituted the "free sign-up only for paid accounts" is also to cut down on useless invasions from other boards. We've been invaded by a group of racists from a white-supremacists board and other organized, but less worrisome, troll such as a group called "Elite Fitness".
What I find ironic is that SDN will use this same tactic (board invasions) to attack others and it's totally fine when they do it, but let it be a white supremacy group doing it to them and oh lordy....it's such a bad thing.
Isn't this a bit odd, considering I came here and saw all kinds of threads about "another horrible thread at SDN" and similar posts, before anyone from SDN had really come over here and said and did anything?

And then, when some of us do come over here to discuss mis-interpretations, it's considered a "board invasion"?

I mean... it's really as if there's just no way to break even.
SDN's slate isn't wiped clean each time one of our boards goes down and another pops up. They've done it before and even did it to SCN. That place has never been mainly a vs board.
Dude, you took down an armed man with your bare hands! Some random podunk calling and saying "yo momma!" through the phone would probably be laughable by comparison.

Hell, if a real "cyberstalker" came after me for some reason, between the Kenpo yellow belt (that's really low) and the 12-ga. buckshot backed up by Idaho's "castle doctrine" I feel perfectly secure.
You think all cyberstalkers approach their targets unarmed or even with just a tiny dagger/knife? Or they always work alone? Or that they're so retarded to think of stalking someone to begin with that they couldn't come up with a plan that had a decent chance of success? You think you'll only ever get a cyberstalker that would only just call you up? You think a cyberstalker would only come after me?

Watch 3 months of Court TV and get back to me. Unlike in a double blind, split test, I can't be in 2 places at once to any appreciable degree because I'm not a speck of energy and my entire body isn't in a state of quantum measurement isolation.

You think I shouldn't give the utmost care to the security concerns of those I share my life with and I shouldn't be aware of potential hazards I could put them in, if I had decided to let ego get in the way over a machismo contest? I should be that selfish or that arrogant?

If you are being deployed again, you should have a talk with your CO about overconfidence when deployed. Some kenpo and a gun can work with a lot of situations, but you must know there's no way you can cover every option because no one can think of anything.

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Post by SailorSaturn13 » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:02 am

Isn't this a bit odd, considering I came here and saw all kinds of threads about "another horrible thread at SDN" and similar posts, before anyone from SDN had really come over here and said and did anything?
SDN invaded boards before. The thread in question was launched when SDN prepared a covered invasion on deiantart (namely, amassed arguments for what was a 1:1 debate). Also, not anyone from SDN was personally attacked there.

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