About me supposedly ignoring evidence

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You still do not provide any evidence of your made up mass lightening in Star Wars.

Ignoring facts.

You mean apart from the material i provided and the facts about the conservation of momentum?, funny how you claim science supports you when you try to use it to justify the DS power output but ignore it when it does not.

Even if aux power is being used, shields tend to be a hit point orientated mechanic, so why would they be affected?

Making up crap again.

Shields are stronger or weaker depending on how much power is available as per the comments regarding "transferring warp power to the shields" ect ect..

Why would aux power be several oom weaker than main power?

Absurdity.

So now aux power can match the output of the warp core?...

Furthermore, what evidence is there that the Enterprise was hit by significant solar flares?

Ignorance.

As I recall, solar flares are largely invisible to the naked eye.

This only goes to prove how much more powerful those from that particular star were as we see the ejecta hitting the ship:

[General Donner]

Sarli openly worked towards a reconciliation of Saxton's figures and a rationalization, putting them in perspective.
So instead of raw power, he came with mass lightening.
Still, the figures remain one to three OoMs superior to the accelerations' higher ends.

I don't know the details but I'm familiar with the general debate, yes.

The problem would be that Sarli's rationalization doesn't really rationalize things. Instead it makes up new problems. Like how any and all mass lightening stuff by default screws over conservation of momentum something fierce. Or how you can achieve greater accelerations when you still use reaction thrusters. The reaction mass will also mass les than it would otherwise. So the overall "speed" figures wouldn't change any.

Meh ... like I said I think it's total nonsense. It's in the books now so I suppose I cant ignore it entirely; the tech obviously exists in universe, much as I'd rather have it otherwise. But I'd like more evidence before I conclude every starship uses it.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Conservation of momentum may not be butchered if you increase speed as much as you decrease mass. The limit would be the speed of light, which may not be attained. This goes without saying that closer to the speed of light, the relative mass increases a lot. Conservation of energy won't be much a problem since what may be gained or lost from the kinetic energy can be stored under other forms of energy.

Solar flares are not invisible. They're literally bursts from the photosphere. It's the corona that is invisible for the most part. That flare that we see wasn't actually that dense at all.
The colour of it may actually be used to calculate the density of particles and thus begin to assemble some figures. I'd say don't expect anything huge though, since I believe that a ship caught in a real flare would be impossible to spot imho, but I may be wrong.

[Picard]

Not to mention that with doubling the speed and halving the mass one gets 2 times more kinetic energy. Meaning that mass lightening, if exists, should reduce mass to one quarter of previous for every doubling in velocity in order for kinetic energy to remain same... until some limit. (Might be why Voyager's maximum impulse speed was 0.8 c). But then again, impulse engines certainly aren't type of reaction drive, since we know that Romulans, despite having no warp frive, were able to achieve FTL travel.

[Nowhereman10]

Wow... I mean, just wow. I go away for a while and all hell breaks loose here.

Look, I can add the For the Uniform quantum torpedoes incident in here to the whole thing. Not only did SWST ignore the implications of quantum torpedoes making high-altitude explosions hundreds of kilometers wide in the less dense upper atmosphere, but he then proceeded to misrepresent the evidence in another debate later on.

I present to you for your perusal:

Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. 2046

[Admiral Breetai]

hey man nice to see you back

[Nowhereman10]

Thanks, but matters elsewhere required my attention. I threw down the gauntlet to some Warsies on YouTube, but when they failed to show up, there was less reason for me to be here.

[Admiral Breetai]

Thanks, but matters elsewhere required my attention. I threw down the gauntlet to some Warsies on YouTube, but when they failed to show up, there was less reason for me to be here.

oh man you were gonna suffer us an invasion by youtube warsies? damn you! naw just kdding that would of been a glorious battle

[Picard]

Breetai, are you a Klingon?

As for "glorious battle", there is few dozen STvsSW videos on Youtube. Flaming as expected, thought.

[Admiral Breetai]

Breetai, are you a Klingon?
.

no I'm zentreadi think Klingon but forty feet tall..

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Ignoring facts.

You mean apart from the material i provided and the facts about the conservation of momentum?, funny how you claim science supports you when you try to use it to justify the DS power output but ignore it when it does not.

What are you talking about? Intertial dampening and mass lightening are two different technobabbles; the latter somehow reduces the weight of an object. The latter is relevant to the implications of the Battle of Yavin on power generation.

Yet you have no evidence that mass lightening exists in the Star Wars universe, and it certainly doesn't exist in real life. Instead, you bring up non relevant interial dampening.

In relation to the technobabble interial dampening, your quotes do not state that it is used to protect the hull of the ship; it failed to protect the hyperdrive engines. More specifically, the quotes imply that it's used to protect the crew, not the ship itself.

Making up crap again.

Shields are stronger or weaker depending on how much power is available as per the comments regarding "transferring warp power to the shields" ect ect..

How is power supposed to be cumulative in a shield that is based on hit points? If anything, transferring warp power to the shields would increase the shield regeneration rate, not anything else.

Absurdity.

So now aux power can match the output of the warp core?...

If it's expected to be able to be combat competitive.

Ignorance.









This only goes to prove how much more powerful those from that particular star were as we see the ejecta hitting the ship:

[/quote]

Yet solar flares are typically invisible, which is the problem. Was it explicitly stated that it was a solar flare?

However, it should be noted that said solar flares at such distances are not going to imply strong shields. More specifically, the Enterprise had to raise shields after getting hit, despite the energy at such ranges being no more than a few dozen megajoules.

[Picard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_flare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejections
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_prominence

As far as I can see, it could be any of these.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

What are you talking about? Intertial dampening and mass lightening are two different technobabbles; the latter somehow reduces the weight of an object. The latter is relevant to the implications of the Battle of Yavin on power generation.

Yet you have no evidence that mass lightening exists in the Star Wars universe, and it certainly doesn't exist in real life. Instead, you bring up non relevant interial dampening.

In relation to the technobabble interial dampening, your quotes do not state that it is used to protect the hull of the ship; it failed to protect the hyperdrive engines. More specifically, the quotes imply that it's used to protect the crew, not the ship itself.

Still ignoring facts.

1. Inertial dampening requires mass lightening due to the conservation of momentum, YOU CANNOT CLAIM "SCIENCE SAYS SO" FOR THE DS PROPULSION CALCS WHILE IGNORING IT WHEN IT DOES NOT SUIT YOU.

2. We see people walking on the hull of the deathstar.

How is power supposed to be cumulative in a shield that is based on hit points? If anything, transferring warp power to the shields would increase the shield regeneration rate, not anything else.

Still making up bullshit.

But go ahead and prove that it increases sheild recharge rather than the str, any material will do although you will not find any considering they do not have regenerative shielding on the E-D...

If it's expected to be able to be combat competitive.

Still absurdity.

Claiming that auxiluary power can come close to matching the power of the warp drives shows what a clown you really are, how often do the use auxiluary power to travel at warp 1 let alone warp 9?...LOL.

Yet solar flares are typically invisible, which is the problem. Was it explicitly stated that it was a solar flare?

However, it should be noted that said solar flares at such distances are not going to imply strong shields. More specifically, the Enterprise had to raise shields after getting hit, despite the energy at such ranges being no more than a few dozen megajoules.

LYING/TROLLING

Even your master Wang calculated the energy BEFORE the flares and CME's to be in the terawatt range.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Still ignoring facts.

1. Inertial dampening requires mass lightening due to the conservation of momentum, YOU CANNOT CLAIM "SCIENCE SAYS SO" FOR THE DS PROPULSION CALCS WHILE IGNORING IT WHEN IT DOES NOT SUIT YOU.

2. We see people walking on the hull of the deathstar.

1. What are you talking about? Momentum =/= kinetic energy. The Death Star's energy requirements for its acceleration around Yavin is simple: mass * velocity^2. The velocity of the Death Star is quite clear, and the mass is too, although the Death Star's density could create a margin of error of a factor of a few, but not enough to significantly alter calculations. Prove that the Death Star's mass was lowered, or you're grasping at straws here.

2. Which is something called artificial gravity, and perhaps inertial dampening when it's accelerating. There is no evidence that this magically decreases the mass of the Death Star by any significant amount.

Still making up bullshit.

But go ahead and prove that it increases sheild recharge rather than the str, any material will do although you will not find any considering they do not have regenerative shielding on the E-D...

Obviously the shields on the Enterprise recover over time. However, I can concede the issue on power/shield relations, because:

RIKER VO: First Officer's log, supplemental. Mister La Forge has diverted power from auxiliary fusion generators in an attempt to stabilize the tractor beam. This is the only hope of increasing our towing speed so we can clear the asteroid belt before radiation levels become fatal.

Auxiliary generators are significant enough to be diverted to complement the main warp core. Therefore, aux power must be within an order of magnitude of main warp power.

Still absurdity.

Claiming that auxiluary power can come close to matching the power of the warp drives shows what a clown you really are, how often do the use auxiluary power to travel at warp 1 let alone warp 9?...LOL.

See above.

LYING/TROLLING

Do you think that bolding silly accusations in every response makes your argument more logical?

Even your master Wang calculated the energy BEFORE the flares and CME's to be in the terawatt range.

Well maybe I performed the calculations wrong, but my calculations for the intensity of a supernova at 150,000 KM was a few dozen megajoules.

[Mike DiCenso]

Obviously the shields on the Enterprise recover over time. However, I can concede the issue on power/shield relations, because:

RIKER VO: First Officer's log, supplemental. Mister La Forge has diverted power from auxiliary fusion generators in an attempt to stabilize the tractor beam. This is the only hope of increasing our towing speed so we can clear the asteroid belt before radiation levels become fatal.

Auxiliary generators are significant enough to be diverted to complement the main warp core. Therefore, aux power must be within an order of magnitude of main warp power.

What episode is that quote from? Please properly cite your sources so that we can evaluate them. Also, how do you get the the assumption that auxiliary power sources are within an order of magnitude of warp power? How do you know anything? But let's play with that a bit. Let's assume for the sake of fun that those numbers are right. So, we know from "Relics" the the shields were down to 23 percent on auxiliary power so that at 100% power, they'd be able to absorb at least 100 terawatts. If warp powered shields are much higher, by a factor of ten, then shields are at least capable of 1,000 TW dissipation.

On the other hand, if auxiliary power is an order of magnitude less than what impulse power provides, then the shields were down at least ten orders of magnitude. But since even the damaged auxiliary powered shields could handle hours of ever increasing radiation from massive and violent solar flares and direct exposure to CMEs, then that could easily go up yet another order of magnitude.

See how playing with assumptions is dangerous?

Well maybe I performed the calculations wrong, but my calculations for the intensity of a supernova at 150,000 KM was a few dozen megajoules.

You need to post your full calculations and assumptions here so that they can be properly reviewed. I have, and other people have posted their work, so come on and pony up.
-Mike