Base Delta Zero

[Admiral Breetai]

and once again my post was ignored..oh also can you corroborate the ICS fire power with film examples

[StarWarsStarTrek]

I responded to you mith, btw.

Breentai, the Death Star circumnavigated Yavin in a matter of minutes, implying an acceleration of 64 km per second squared. Assuming a density of a gsc, that would require e29 joules each second...or a thousand suns each second! That scales down to e23 joules per second for an ISD, ten thousand times the power output of the Enterprise.

[Admiral Breetai]

I responded to you mith, btw.

Breentai, the Death Star circumnavigated Yavin in a matter of minutes, implying an acceleration of 64 km per second squared. Assuming a density of a gsc, that would require e29 joules each second...or a thousand suns each second! That scales down to e23 joules per second for an ISD, ten thousand times the power output of the Enterprise.

it exited hyperspace and mixed it's own momentum with the planets orbit to do that at no point did we see engines on the DS at no point in the films do we see power generation on that level...

[Praeothmin]

SWST, where in the video you posted does it show ranges in the hundreds of km?
At what time index can we calculate this, because I've looked at the fight, and at most get 3, 4times the length of the SSD as range, which, if we assume it is 17km long (reasonalbe scaling), means at most 80 km away when the fighters engage each other, but we still don't see the Cap ships fire at each other at these ranges, and these ranges are still far less than DS9 combat ranges, or many other examples in ST, like in "The Search" - 100,000 kilometers is "well within range" of the Jem'Hadar ships' weapons.
There's also:
"Caretaker" - Voyager launches tricobalt devices at a range of ~400 km.

"Ex Post Facto" - Voyager locks phasers shortly before the Numiri ships close to 4,000 km. The Numiri engage tractors at 2,000 km, and Voyager fires at 1,500 km. 40 tons of thalmerite explosives are expected to be able to blow up a Numiri ship.

In "The Swarm," Janeway arms phasers at 100,000 km, and the swarm's range is then reported to be 7,000 km after the phasers are fired.

"Non Sequitor" - while being chased by a Nebula class starship, Harry Kim loses shields while still 5,000 km away.

[Picard]

Both in which there was no shielding involved. Shielded star destroyers sat in said asteroid belt for at least a day.

Oh, really? No they didn't. And since you claim that SW starships have neutronium hulls, one being destroyed by slow moving piece of rock is quite telling.

Logically, a sphere would work better as a barrier in space than a ring. Star Trek writers are not always logical.

And Star Wars ones are... EU is even worse than Star Trek when it comes to logic. But yes, sphere would be more logical.

Do you care to elaborate, at all? I included several quotes from various sources, and your only response is “cherrypicking?”

You are cherrypicking your sources. That is, you only take non-canon material that supports your wievs, while ignoring both canon and non-canon material that contradicts your wievs.

Such as:

1) heavy turbolaser shot can vaporize small town at most
2) ISD had to get MF out of asteroid when it was hiding inside it. If it had teraton-range gun, it would simply pull off BDZ.
3) "... to rendezvous at Dankayo and reduce the tiny base to molten slag. Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away, before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle, Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters, moved in to perform "mop-up" operations and a thorough search of Dankayo's now evenly-cratered surface."
-- Scavenger Hunt, p.3
4) "The Imperial Star Destroyer has enough firepower to reduce a civilized world to slag."
-- Imperial Sourcebook

>>CIVILIZED world<<. Which means Base Delta Zero is something like GO24 - destroying cities and industrial assets, therefore destroying civilization.

5) "System bombard contains an average of 100 ships divided between three bombard squadrons and a light squadron. If an admiral feels that force superiority has done less than a thorough job of removing hostile craft from the system, a system bombard squadron will be augmented with ships from the light squadron."

ISD needs support to do it safely.

6) ""Sir, what about bombardment? Is there a stage for that?"
"Blasting a planet from orbit is easy -- you don't need me to tell you how to do that. Limited orbital strikes would occur during the invasion stage. Just hope you are never given a Base Delta Zero order, lieutenant. Ah, yes, another question?"
"Sir, what's the Base Delta Zero order?"
"Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities. All other Imperial codes are subject to change, as you well know, but this code is always the same to prevent any confusion when the order is given. Base Delta Zero is rarely issued. ...."
-- "A World to Conquer""

ISD can destroy population centres and resources - that is, mine shafts, oil platforms etc., which is exactly what "destroying resources" means in military, contrary to wank-inflated "idea" some warsies hold that every speck of dirt has immense strategic value.

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/10/e ... -zero.html

1.4 gigatons for heavy TL, tops, from that.

If you do not consider the EU to be canon, why are you participating in a thread about an exclusively EU event; BDZ’s are not mentioned in G canon?

And why are you making the implied claim that G and T canon have contradicted BDZ’s, while providing no evidence of this at all?

1) Beacouse amount of lies you throw in is just obscene.
2) Yes, I have provided evidence. Even when I don't, you have link to my site in my profile - it shouldn't be too hard to find. But no, it's just easier to say "aah, you didn't provide evidence" while forgetting that you have done same thing many more times than I did.

And where are these “half a dozen other sources” that you claim but fail to provide?

You have them in "EU sources contradicting Base Delta Zero" thread. Plus I have provided some of them above.

So you’re denying that a BDZ can reduce a planet to slag, despite several varied sources saying so…because they all just happened to have decided to use slag figuratively? Does that not strike you as a rather large of a coincidence, one that you assume with no evidence?

Beacouse these "valid" sources happen to be in contradiction to canon and majority of EU, as well as with themselves - interpretation often being wanked up to extreme. You have it on Darkstar's BDZ page.

The vast majority of sources mentioning a Base Delta Zero support the AOTC ICS. You have yet to provide any contradicting sources. It’s not cherrypicking when the majority of sources support it.

And "vast majority" would be? As I said, I have no interest in EU, except when it comes to your dishonesty in claiming that EU somehow overrides canon. And no, majority of sources CONTRADICT it, or that is impression I got from several second-hand sources (sw-v-st.net, this forum) as well as your failed attempt to defend Saxon's BDZ - you were claiming that sources which contradict it actually support it. It is somewhere in "Sources that contradict BDZ" thread, I think.

Except that the Enterprise was fully capable of scanning the borg cube for damage, communicating with the rest of Starfleet and giving precise coordinates on the structure of the borg to fire upon, so obviously heavy jamming so extreme that you have to approach 10 kilometers to hit such a big target was not in place. If the Enterprise can target specific coordinate points on the borg cube and scan the cube for damage, jamming is not a valid excuse as to why it approached 10 kilometers to fire.

Long-range communications were garbled. And you have to prove that jamming sensors will jam short-range communications too.

Plus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY_e4oIo ... re=related
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs ... edoes.html
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs ... asers.html

…and?

My mistake.

There’s a very vague film-novel quote about matter-energy conversion that some have interpreted as indicative of a chain reaction…for no reason. However poorly worded the quote is, this one appears to be related to the reactor of the Death Star. Nothing implies a chain reaction.

Really? It means that superlaser is not DET, as it CONVERTS target into energy. And REACTOR? Please. I know that your credibility is already shattered, but don't make it any worse.

"Theoretically, no weapon could penetrate the exceptionally dense stone of the ancient temple, but Luke had seen the shattered remnants of Alderaan and knew that for those in the incredible battle station that the entire moon would present simply another abstract problem in mass-energy conversion." .

And watch the borg cube battle. Photon torpedos take several seconds to traverse 10 kilomters.

Beacouse they don't need to be fast at short range, and accelerating torpedo makes it harder to target subsystem, as well as expending energy.

If the Voyager were traveling at high sublight speeds, which is not stated or implied, it could have used whatever strange breaking mechanism Star Trek ships use to slow down in space to decelerate. Janeway’s first response was to tell her crew to brace themselves. There was no question as to whether such an object could penetrate the hull, or as to whether they could try and shoot it down.

Capsule was travelling at high STL speed, I don't know about Voyager.

What a nitpick in my post. If that were true, explain how heavy turbolasers blew the atmosphere off of Dankayo while still being held back by shields.

They don't. EU isn't canon, and in canon, turbolaser can only vaporize buildings in small town.

Because the Rebel tactical officer was making helpful statements of the Death Star being five minutes away from Yavin 4?

We know that ships retain some speed after exiting hyperspace. After that, using planet's gravity well as slingshot shouldn't be too hard.

In the battle of Yavin, both fleets. The Rebel fleet met the imperial fleet by circumnavigating Yavin within minutes, and the imperial fleet circumnavigated Yavin the other way within minutes too. This implies acceleration of around 64 km/s.

That is battle of Endor, not battle of Yavin. You "argue" for Star Wars, yet you don't know a thing about it aside from what jerks at SDN inculcate in you. As for acceleration, Star Trek ships can pull off 100 000 km/s^2.

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs ... drive.html

You don't know how to argue honestly. You don't know what you should know about both franchises if you want to argue. And you don't know proper physics measures. Please. km/s - speed; km/s^2 - acceleration.

[Mike DiCenso]

I responded to you mith, btw.

Breentai, the Death Star circumnavigated Yavin in a matter of minutes, implying an acceleration of 64 km per second squared. Assuming a density of a gsc, that would require e29 joules each second...or a thousand suns each second! That scales down to e23 joules per second for an ISD, ten thousand times the power output of the Enterprise.

Why should we assume the Death Star has a density equal to that of a Galaxy class starship, or another other Federation starship, for that matter? We know in the second highest G-canon of the RoTS novelization on page 86 that weight reduction on Star Wars ships is absolutely critical, which is why they use "permacrete, hydrofoamed to reduce weight."

Furthermore, the 1e29 J number was discredited quite some time ago. That number is extremely generous and it is spread out over 2 hours or more in time. The orbiting of Yavin itself required 30 minutes at maximum velocity.

This is just yet another example of where you ignore counter evidence so that you can maintain SW superiority at all costs.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I responded to you mith, btw.

Breentai, the Death Star circumnavigated Yavin in a matter of minutes, implying an acceleration of 64 km per second squared. Assuming a density of a gsc, that would require e29 joules each second...or a thousand suns each second! That scales down to e23 joules per second for an ISD, ten thousand times the power output of the Enterprise.

I shot this Wong crap down myself ages ago in regards to the fact the DS MUST have used mass lightening and inertial dampening or it would have torn itself apart as soon as it tried to accelerate.

So add that to the list of rebuttals you ignored.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Oh, really? No they didn't. And since you claim that SW starships have neutronium hulls, one being destroyed by slow moving piece of rock is quite telling.

Red herring. The star destroyer that was destroyed by the asteroid was not shielded. The other star destroyers were shielded, and an entire day's worth of hails of asteroids did nothing to them.

And Star Wars ones are... EU is even worse than Star Trek when it comes to logic. But yes, sphere would be more logical.

EU Star Wars authors are typically more logical than Star Trek writers. TCW authors though...they're up there with Star Trek writers.

You are cherrypicking your sources. That is, you only take non-canon material that supports your wievs, while ignoring both canon and non-canon material that contradicts your wievs.

THE BASE DELTA ZERO IS ONLY MENTIONED IN EU SOURCES. IF YOU DO NOT CONSIDER IT TO BE CANON, WHY ARE YOU PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD!!?!?!?

Such as:

1) heavy turbolaser shot can vaporize small town at most

A "small town" of which darkstar assumed to be made entirely out of wood (instead of, you know, metal) and to be no larger than a modern small town. Did I mention that he added on an arbitrary definition of "figurative vaporization" that he pulled out of his ass?

2) ISD had to get MF out of asteroid when it was hiding inside it. If it had teraton-range gun, it would simply pull off BDZ.

The officers were under orders to take Han and Leia alive. Any more misdirection attempts?

3) "... to rendezvous at Dankayo and reduce the tiny base to molten slag. Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away, before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle, Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters, moved in to perform "mop-up" operations and a thorough search of Dankayo's now evenly-cratered surface."
-- Scavenger Hunt, p.3

Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away,

You have a highly selective reading comprehension.

4) "The Imperial Star Destroyer has enough firepower to reduce a civilized world to slag."
-- Imperial Sourcebook

>>CIVILIZED world<<. Which means Base Delta Zero is something like GO24 - destroying cities and industrial assets, therefore destroying civilization.

Because apparently, you're an elitist who does not consider rural areas to be civilized, or underground bunkers, or a tourist attraction headquarters inside a large mountain.

5) "System bombard contains an average of 100 ships divided between three bombard squadrons and a light squadron. If an admiral feels that force superiority has done less than a thorough job of removing hostile craft from the system, a system bombard squadron will be augmented with ships from the light squadron."

ISD needs support to do it safely.

Of course, a single ISD cannot BDZ a planet fast enough to prevent survivors from escaping or fighting back; one ISD cannot blockade an entire planet.

6) ""Sir, what about bombardment? Is there a stage for that?"
"Blasting a planet from orbit is easy -- you don't need me to tell you how to do that. Limited orbital strikes would occur during the invasion stage. Just hope you are never given a Base Delta Zero order, lieutenant. Ah, yes, another question?"
"Sir, what's the Base Delta Zero order?"
"Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities. All other Imperial codes are subject to change, as you well know, but this code is always the same to prevent any confusion when the order is given. Base Delta Zero is rarely issued. ...."
-- "A World to Conquer""

ISD can destroy population centres and resources - that is, mine shafts, oil platforms etc., which is exactly what "destroying resources" means in military, contrary to wank-inflated "idea" some warsies hold that every speck of dirt has immense strategic value.

As Saxton has pointed out (and as you guys ridicule...because...because it's too powerful!!!) "natural resources" include mineral deposits deep inside the mantel of the Earth, but nice try.

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/10/e ... -zero.html

1.4 gigatons for heavy TL, tops, from that.

And explain why you assume that airbursts are going to destroy, for example, an oil deposit located underground? Or a deposit of metals under a mountain?

And explain why you misconstrue a BDZ to require hundreds of ships (instead of preferably containing enough ships to blockade the planet), when the Technical Journal (and others) states unambiguously that ONE star destroyer can do the job.

1) Beacouse amount of lies you throw in is just obscene.

What's this; unsupported claims?

2) Yes, I have provided evidence. Even when I don't, you have link to my site in my profile - it shouldn't be too hard to find. But no, it's just easier to say "aah, you didn't provide evidence" while forgetting that you have done same thing many more times than I did.

"Have you ever seen what a Star Destroyer can do to the surface of an unshielded planet? Stones run like water and sand turns to glass."

Do you understand the use of the singular "a" and "destroyer" with no s at the end?

So go revise your BDZ calculations with the fact that a single star destroyer can do it in a matter of hours.

You have them in "EU sources contradicting Base Delta Zero" thread. Plus I have provided some of them above.

Right, so an unshielded ISD getting destroyed is a sign of shield strength.

Beacouse these "valid" sources happen to be in contradiction to canon and majority of EU, as well as with themselves - interpretation often being wanked up to extreme. You have it on Darkstar's BDZ page.

Contradiction of what? You still have yet to provide any solid contradictions of Base Delta Zero: an unshielded ISD's durability is not related.

And "vast majority" would be? As I said, I have no interest in EU, except when it comes to your dishonesty in claiming that EU somehow overrides canon. And no, majority of sources CONTRADICT it, or that is impression I got from several second-hand sources (sw-v-st.net, this forum) as well as your failed attempt to defend Saxon's BDZ - you were claiming that sources which contradict it actually support it. It is somewhere in "Sources that contradict BDZ" thread, I think.

The vast majority would be the quotes that I cited. So far you have cited zero quotes that describe base delta zero as anything less than turning the surface of a planet into slag.

Long-range communications were garbled. And you have to prove that jamming sensors will jam short-range communications too.

You, of course, will prove this.

Plus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY_e4oIo ... re=related
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs ... edoes.html
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs ... asers.html

So if the Enterprise's photon torpedos yielded low gigaton level (which you use your circular "Federation hull strength is awesome!" claim), then why was the Breen attack on Earth only damaging to a section of the San Fransisco bay area? Given the rather high RoF of photon torpedos, even ten seconds of open time to fire at Earth would have started a dangerous nuclear winter...if photon torpedos were gigaton level.

My mistake.


Really? It means that superlaser is not DET, as it CONVERTS target into energy. And REACTOR? Please. I know that your credibility is already shattered, but don't make it any worse.

"Theoretically, no weapon could penetrate the exceptionally dense stone of the ancient temple, but Luke had seen the shattered remnants of Alderaan and knew that for those in the incredible battle station that the entire moon would present simply another abstract problem in mass-energy conversion." .

This quote is too vague to prove anything. You're making the stupid connection in logic that "abstract problem in mass-energy conversion" means "converting the moon's mass into energy" (which would not explain why Han Solo and the crew encountered an asteroid field as they approached where Alderaan once was).

And where would Luke Skywalker at this point even know that the superlaser was a chain reaction weapon, if it was one? Did he view the "shattered remnants of Alderaan" (why Alderaan would have shattered remnants if it were converted into energy is something you have not explained) and deduce using his farmboy education that the Death Star used a matter-energy chain reaction?

Beacouse they don't need to be fast at short range,

Excuse me? Why were they even closing within such ranges in the first place? Were they interested in taking photos of the cube?

and accelerating torpedo makes it harder to target subsystem,

If Federation targeting technology cannot accurately target subsystems at any more than a few km/s^2, said targeting technology is comparatively crap.

as well as expending energy.

What the...these are photon torpeodos. They are going to explode, and you are going to lose them. Photon torpedos are expendable munitions that thrust on their own power.

Not to mention that, if photon torpedos really were gigaton level like you claim, accelerating at even 50 km/s^2 would be comparatively insignificant.

Capsule was travelling at high STL speed, I don't know about Voyager.

There are numerous orbit scenes that show Star Trek ships not moving faster than escape velocity when it surely would have suited them to have done so.

They don't. EU isn't canon, and in canon, turbolaser can only vaporize buildings in small town.

Read the title of this thread. If you are not willing to accept BDZ operation examples as existing because they do not fit with your interpretation of canon, why are you in this thread?

If you are going to argue BDZ, you have to accept it as a canon fact that it at least exists, and by extension, that the EU is canon/official/etc for at least just this thread. And Dankayo is an example of a BDZ where the atmosphere was blown off.

We know that ships retain some speed after exiting hyperspace. After that, using planet's gravity well as slingshot shouldn't be too hard.

Are you letting ST technobabble take a hold of you? How is Yavin's gravity well supposed to accelerate an object the size of a small moon by 64 km/s^2?

That is battle of Endor, not battle of Yavin. You "argue" for Star Wars, yet you don't know a thing about it aside from what jerks at SDN inculcate in you.

No it's not. The Rebel Fleet never had to circumnavigate Endor, and the Death Star was more or less still during the Battle of Endor (until it blew up). Your reading comprehension skills need to improve. Both Yavin and Endor have impressive speed feats, yet that feat that I was referring to was Yavin, where both fleets circumnavigated Yavin within minutes.

As for acceleration, Star Trek ships can pull off 100 000 km/s^2.

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs ... drive.html

You don't know how to argue honestly. You don't know what you should know about both franchises if you want to argue. And you don't know proper physics measures. Please. km/s - speed; km/s^2 - acceleration.

[/quote]

Your hypocrisy is astounding. You accuse me of misusing speed/acceleration terms, yet in your own link you mention "maximum speed"...in space? The only maximum speed in space is the speed of light.

Actually, there is a de-facto maximum speed (in fact, only one possible, other than fear of debris and C); fuel reserves. A maximum speed of 0.8 C means that the ship cannot go any faster. There is no braking mechanism in space, so this must be because:

1. Space debris gets too dangerous at those velocities.
2. The ship does not have enough fuel to accelerate further.

Let's look at the possibilities:

1. The probability of hitting a large asteroid in space is ridiculously small, so the only debris that a ship would likely hit are small particles of dust, which are pretty dangerous at relativistic relative speeds. If the Enterprise would get hit with a total of, for example, 70 kilograms of debris in medium distance trips, that is approximately 2e18 joules of energy, or about a gigaton.

2. Measures out to about e25 joules, which is actually pretty darn impressive, although this is the entire fuel reserve of the Voyager.



But these figures are highly contradictory, since there are numerous examples in which ST ships clearly do not move any faster than a few km/s. For example, in the borg cube battle, photon torpedos were accelerating at about one km/s^2, and these things are expected to be able to hit ST ships.

[Admiral Breetai]

Red herring. The star destroyer that was destroyed by the asteroid was not shielded. The other star destroyers were shielded, and an entire day's worth of hails of asteroids did nothing to them.]

not supported by the films

EU Star Wars authors are typically more logical than Star Trek writers. TCW authors though...they're up there with Star Trek writers.

that's the most hilarious thing I've ever heard..the clown who wrote Dark Empire and magically invented force powers no one in the film universe ever had..has more logic then a trek writer? please don't be blind

THE BASE DELTA ZERO IS ONLY MENTIONED IN EU SOURCES. IF YOU DO NOT CONSIDER IT TO BE CANON, WHY ARE YOU PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD!!?!?!?

the rest of your post was pretty much a big strawman intermixed with ham fisted counters on stuff already dealt with so I wont go and waste time but this, this is especially amusing it's an eu only thing? irrelevant really you wanna claim BDZ is legit EU material? show me some in film justification for that kind of fire power

[Praeothmin]

The star destroyer that was destroyed by the asteroid was not shielded. The other star destroyers were shielded, and an entire day's worth of hails of asteroids did nothing to them.

Prove it with evidence, now!
Or else we can all treat this as another invention whithout any truth behind it...

THE BASE DELTA ZERO IS ONLY MENTIONED IN EU SOURCES. IF YOU DO NOT CONSIDER IT TO BE CANON, WHY ARE YOU PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD!!?!?!?

BECAUSE HE'S TELLING YOU THAT THE MOVIES DO NOT SHOW THIS CAPABILITY, AND THUS THE EU IS WRONG...

"Have you ever seen what a Star Destroyer can do to the surface of an unshielded planet? Stones run like water and sand turns to glass."

Do you understand the use of the singular "a" and "destroyer" with no s at the end?

So go revise your BDZ calculations with the fact that a single star destroyer can do it in a matter of hours.

Garak, talking about the Defiant:
"We have enough firepower to turn this world to cinder"

So a Defiant class can also do a BDZ, then?

Right, so an unshielded ISD getting destroyed is a sign of shield strength.

Nope, it's a sign of a weak hull...

You still have yet to provide any solid contradictions of Base Delta Zero

Absence of the TTs needed for it in any of the movies, including RotS, and absence of the necessary firepower in TCW, both higher canon sources...

If you are not willing to accept BDZ operation examples as existing because they do not fit with your interpretation of canon, why are you in this thread?

If you are going to argue BDZ, you have to accept it as a canon fact that it at least exists, and by extension, that the EU is canon/official/etc for at least just this thread. And Dankayo is an example of a BDZ where the atmosphere was blown off.

No, this thread is here specifically to discuss why some people think the Saxton and Wong BDZ is pure bullcrap and why it doesn't match with anything in the movies...

[Mike DiCenso]

The star destroyer that was destroyed by the asteroid was not shielded. The other star destroyers were shielded, and an entire day's worth of hails of asteroids did nothing to them.

Prove it with evidence, now!
Or else we can all treat this as another invention whithout any truth behind it...

The other ISDs were not undamaged as this quote shows:

NEEDA: (in hologram)...and that, Lord Vader, was the last time they
appeared in any of our scopes. Considering the amount of damage we've
sustained, they must have been destroyed.

There you have it, in a nutshell. If SWST cannot or will not acknowledge this evidence, I will consider this grounds for another warning for debating dishonesty.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

As Saxton has pointed out (and as you guys ridicule...because...because it's too powerful!!!) "natural resources" include mineral deposits deep inside the mantel of the

Earth, but nice try.

Proving without a doubt what a obvious SW wanker and idiot Saxton is.

1. Considering other quotes they are obviously refering to Biotic and not Abiotic resources.

2. Mineral deposits being melted are far from destroyed so unless SW are now packing phasers then Saxton is a idiot. In fact it could even purify and consolidate the materials due to them being supposedly melted and "liquids of differing densities ect ect".

[Mr. Oragahn]

In Star Wars, even the core of a planet is full of natural resources.
Let's not be burdened by common sense!

[Mr. Oragahn]

The star destroyer that was destroyed by the asteroid was not shielded. The other star destroyers were shielded, and an entire day's worth of hails of asteroids did nothing to them.

Prove it with evidence, now!
Or else we can all treat this as another invention whithout any truth behind it...

The other ISDs were not undamaged as this quote shows:

NEEDA: (in hologram)...and that, Lord Vader, was the last time they
appeared in any of our scopes. Considering the amount of damage we've
sustained, they must have been destroyed.

There you have it, in a nutshell. If SWST cannot or will not acknowledge this evidence, I will consider this grounds for another warning for debating dishonesty.
-Mike

The ISDs were flying through a storm of asteroid impacts, a rain of constant shocks with the power of multi-megaton concussion bombs.
That's what the EU says, in some intro written by Steve Sansweet I think. Never mind that nothing like that is ever seen in the movie or ever described in the novelization.

[Praeothmin]

And therein lies SWST's problem:
He's using the EU to discredit the movies...
TESB does not, in any way, form, or manner, show us these TT/GT...
It does not show us high resistance for ISDs, since self-exploding rocks with low KE can destroy their bridge towers...

Basic facts:
Nothing in the movies show us anything close to the ICS or high-end EU numbers...
And TCW nails the final nail in the wank-coffin as well...