Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. 2046

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

What? Continent sized? Both me and even a trekkie calculated the explosion radius to be a few hundred kms.

Hey! I really don't like this guy misrepresenting my work! >:[

My calculations were only for the size of the fireballs seen in the late stages of the detonations, not the initial intensely bright flash or the shockwaves. The shockwaves do indeed cover thousands of km as Darkstar claims they do. The fireball diameter is what I calculated, not the radius, but the 220 km diameter is sufficent as a high-altitude airburst (per the dialog) to rate as a 500-1000 megaton yeild.

And? They were still fired, and yet did not show the effects that you'd expect from a 100 megaton weapon.

Of course not! They're 500-1000 MT high yeild, high-altitude airbursts!

The fireball from the photon torpedo in TNG:"Skin of evil" expanded to around 350km in diameter (if we go with a earth sized planet due to the gravity) in well under a second.

And while some try to use the fireball duration to calculate the yield the fact is that doing so is a absurdity as just the pressure wave of such a fast expansion is vast.

[Mr. Oragahn]

There are many things wrong with the VFX. JMS took a safer way by gauging what it would take, at least, to be able to see the explosion from that distance. Although I think he based his calculation on a luminosity level perhaps above what is just necessary.

[Picard]

the fact is that doing so is a absurdity

Did it ever stop them from doing it?

[Lucky]

What the hell is a tension shield? Are you trying to sneak in more EU crap again?

Yes, just one more detail from N-canon... except for the fact that I did not find it on google or on Wookiepedia, which means that it is not EU crap, but rather his own invention.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tensor_field

[Picard]

So he just misspelled it...

[Mike DiCenso]

I've noticed that StarWarsStarTrek has not posted in a while here. Has he/she given up and quit the forum? Too busy to post? Maybe they should post something about that, or PM someone.
-Mike

[2046]

By my math, he has another two weeks.

As I said in the thread:

3. Rounds and Time Limits:

I've already been wasting too much time lately getting dragged back into forum postings, but I seriously do not have time for this.

A. Three rounds. You post, I post, you post, I post, you post, I post. Fini.

B. From the opening post, the debate shall last no more than 10 weeks, with due times evenly distributed in two-week intervals.

In other words, the due time for each post shall not be more than two weeks after the due time for the prior post, but early posting does not start the clock.

So, let's say you posted first on the 20th of January. That would mean I had until the 3rd of February to respond. And even if I posted a response on the 21st of January, you would still have until the 17th of February to respond.

However, if we are both able to fly through pretty quick, then this can be over real fast.

As I read it, that means that given his opening round start date of January 26, then with due dates on the left and actual dates on the right we get:

Code: Select all

him 1-26		actual 1-26
me  2-09		actual 1-30
him 2-23		actual 2-05
me  3-09		actual 2-22
him 3-23		waiting
me  4-06		waiting

[Mr. Oragahn]

Damn. Beyond the fact that I found StarWarsStarTrek's latest post to be of very poor argumentative quality, it might be good a thing if a mod may clean the whole quote tagging mess.
StarWarsStarTrek could do it, but then he could be accused of altering his post.

[Mike DiCenso]

As a point of order, since one-on-one debates rarely occur, it would be just as improper for me to take any editing action as it would be for SWST to do so. In fact, some forums do allow for particpants in a one-on-one debate to go back and clean up their posts as long as they don't make excessive changes to the content itself, and as long as it is done within a reasonable timeframe.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Maybe you're looking at a different video, because:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHTtOMWRysg

I'm seeing shockwaves that expand thousands of km across the planet dispite the relatively poor video quality.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

yeah that was errmm poor but he's had a rough day he kinda had a mini melt down on SB earlier too

edit : the nuclear winter argument if I'm following his post right is in regards to a Breen attack against earth? Ermmm this is a civilization with terraforming technology advanced enough to revive dead stars..why on earth would we expect one? they likely began immediate repairs

[Mike DiCenso]

That all presumes that the damage seen was unrestricted in any way. As seen in ST:ENT's "Divergence", even planetary shields act like starship shields in that the more damage is accumulated, the more "leakthrough" can result. All that was needed was a very tiny leakthrough at specifically targeted areas with the hopes that far worse damage could be done by the fleet before planetary defenses and Starfleet could wipe them out.
-Mike

[User1601]

The movies, novelizations, etc. are used.
The EU is allowed as long as it does not contradict any of the above.

Meaning that any debate will be reduced to defining what is considered a contradiction.

And the warsies DENYING it.

[User1601]

That all presumes that the damage seen was unrestricted in any way. As seen in ST:ENT's "Divergence", even planetary shields act like starship shields in that the more damage is accumulated, the more "leakthrough" can result. -Mike

That' apparently changed when they broke the time-barrier; consider TOS's "Whom Gods Destroy," where even an asylum's flimsy shields could stop the Enterprise's full phasers from making a ding in them; meanwhile in TMP, Earth's defenses were so amazing that they were even able to stop V'ger, if not for the information gained from the Enteprise's computer. Even the Borg were only a threat, because of their adaptive ability.
That type of shielding could easily stop the Death Star, since V'ger's 12-power forcefield was much more powerful than anything that the DS-sized fusion generators could put out.

Planetary-defense systems have an advantage over starships regarding size and mass, since the planet's not going anywhere. Consider DS9's defense-systems, which were able to hold off an entire assault of Klingon ships.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

That all presumes that the damage seen was unrestricted in any way. As seen in ST:ENT's "Divergence", even planetary shields act like starship shields in that the more damage is accumulated, the more "leakthrough" can result. -Mike

That' apparently changed when they broke the time-barrier; consider TOS's "Whom Gods Destroy," where even an asylum's flimsy shields could stop the Enterprise's full phasers from making a ding in them; meanwhile in TMP, Earth's defenses were so amazing that they were even able to stop V'ger, if not for the information gained from the Enteprise's computer.

I am sure they said that the ships phasers could blast through the shields on the prison planet although the downside was that they would kill kirk ect and every other living thing on the planet doing so.