Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. 2046

Post by **Trinoya** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:22 am

I do not mean to intrude upon this thread, but might I recommend you choose an independent arbiter for topics you and him are unable to reconcile.

Also: You both should first agree on terms and what not BEFORE you start debating, and then debate it point by point, not a smattering of topics in one post, that's how things get lost.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:51 pm

You might want to actually email the guy as well to let him know you want to do this. He may not check her as often as you think he does.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:16 pm

Plus you may want to actually provide evidence for your claims as well, like links to articles, excerps from scripts, calculations for firepower, etc...

Admiral Breetai · Post by **Admiral Breetai** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:39 am

well Darkstar man you certainly are allot more patient then I am...my hats off to you sir

Post by **Trinoya** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:29 am

For any disagreements I may have on some of his assessments, man is patient, been doing this for years.

Admiral Breetai · Post by **Admiral Breetai** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:56 pm

Trinoya wrote:For any disagreements I may have on some of his assessments, man is patient, been doing this for years.

so have I on many of the different hot button topics..(Stv Sw goku vs Superman/ superman vs Thor) and I lost my ability to be that patient..that is to say I am an aggressive debater..in general but when faced with a post like that..after so many FUBAR's I tend to be allot harsher I envy...that in allot of you guys in SFJ..that you can be so exposed to the madness yet remain so..passive

I'm impressed..and this is the guy SDN's convinced the web is a lunatic? not what I expected and am pleasantly surprised..props

Post by **Trinoya** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:50 pm

Well the bulk of the SFJ crowd are people who got fed up of the way the debate currently is and would rather actually try to get somewhere with it.

Mith · Post by **Mith** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:28 am

Why request that the EU remain canon in the debate? Obviously, if it blends so well with G canon, you wouldn't need to hold onto it...

Admiral Breetai · Post by **Admiral Breetai** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:45 am

Mith wrote:Why request that the EU remain canon in the debate? Obviously, if it blends so well with G canon, you wouldn't need to hold onto it...

because the truth is there is literally nothing supporting EU feats in the primary canon

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:51 am

Leland CHEE

Kor_Dahar_Master · Post by **Kor_Dahar_Master** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:35 pm

The movies, novelizations, etc. are used.
The EU is allowed as long as it does not contradict any of the above.

Meaning that any debate will be reduced to defining what is considered a contradiction.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:07 pm

Look, the Trekkies are right here. You either allow it or disallow it. You cannot pick and choose. 2046 is unwilling to allow the EU, which I think is a shame merely because I enjoy the stories, so you are going to have to go another route. Unless, of course, you are capable of convincing him that it is, in fact, of the highest level of canon. Good luck.

Picard · Post by **Picard** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:16 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:*sigh* darkstar, what are the parameters that you would suggest then? That we only include the movies and nothing else? Whether or not you think it's canon, it's fair to allow in the EU as long as it does not contradict G canon. If it does, then G canon wins.

How about this:

The movies, novelizations, etc. are used.
The EU is allowed as long as it does not contradict any of the above.

You have no incentive not to agree to this, unless if you feel that having the EU on the Star Wars side gives them the win. There's a reason why the Expanded Universe needs to get approved by Lucasarts. There's also a reason why it's called Expanded Universe and not Seperate Universe.

If you don't think that the EU is canon, do you agree that it's at least official, having been licensed by Lucasarts? If George Lucas approves of a product, then it's canon, and part of the Star Wars franchise.

Problem which I often faced when arguing Warsies (so much that it became my way of determining who is Warsie and who is ordinary SW fan) is that, when presented with contradiction, most of them try either to wawehand it or to reshape canon so it can fit EU. Sometimes I had impression that to most Warsies something is canon only as long as it does not contradict ICS II and III.

And no, EU is official, but it is not canon. Also, Star Trek EU (including Technical Manuals, video games like Armada series and everything else having Star Trek as part of name) are official, but are not canon in any way.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:54 pm

Picard wrote: And no, EU is official, but it is not canon. Also, Star Trek EU (including Technical Manuals, video games like Armada series and everything else having Star Trek as part of name) are official, but are not canon in any way.

Picard, at the risk of having to repat myself once again:
EU is C-Canon, but is Canon, as per Lucas Film Licensing, the managers of GL's franchise.

Paramount, on the other hand, specifically states that only movies and TV shows are Canon, except for two events happening in two Novels.
the rest of the books are not even "official", they are just books in the ST universe...

SWST wrote:However, we will not be as strict when dealing with contradictions against T canon, because it's not as high as G canon.

It is, however, much higher than the ICS, which is C-Canon, and so while anything T-Canon contradicting G is wrong, anything contradicting C-Canon is valid...

Admiral Breetai · Post by **Admiral Breetai** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:03 pm

I like that he actually allowed you to choose..where as with me it's "EU IS EVIDENCE" tactic

maybe he respects you more..or something either way happy hunting

Starfleet Jedi

Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. 2046

Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. 2046

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