STL at warp factor 0.x

[Mr. Oragahn]

Problem is, there are many instances of the Warp-Engines being offline and yet the ship still has impulse, so if it was that common, then everytime the Warp Drive or Engines were damaged/offline, we'd have heard how "the damage we have means we have no mass lightening, so impulse will be slower"...

Why? Are Starfleet so dumb that they need to be told that the magic moves are locked as long as warp is down?
Starfleet Academy would logically teach scholars that in their first years, so much that the knowledge of super speeds on impulse being impossible without warp would be as intuitive as the idea that fire burns, or as intuitive a sugar being sweet.

They do not need warp engines to do it they can use the subspace field output of the deflector generators to create a low level subspace field.

Is a "subspace field output" different from warp?
Does it lower mass?
Where is it established in canon?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Problem is, there are many instances of the Warp-Engines being offline and yet the ship still has impulse, so if it was that common, then everytime the Warp Drive or Engines were damaged/offline, we'd have heard how "the damage we have means we have no mass lightening, so impulse will be slower"...

Why? Are Starfleet so dumb that they need to be told that the magic moves are locked as long as warp is down?
Starfleet Academy would logically teach scholars that in their first years, so much that the knowledge of super speeds on impulse being impossible without warp would be as intuitive as the idea that fire burns, or as intuitive a sugar being sweet.

If reducing the mass of an object to make moving it easier was common they would not make a big deal out of it beyond perhaps scale, and in the case of DS9 said systems would have been noted as off line, broken, or not there.

Do they make a big deal of it though? They didn't in TMP, nor did they in First Contact. It seemed perfectly normal.
For DS9, it was different because they were dealing with a space station. For Deja Q, it was exceptional because they had to apply the field to an entire moon and operate on the moon without fracturing it.
You may find a few caveats, but that's not important, because it's an idea that makes sense and explains the large discrepancy between STL speeds on impulse.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Is a "subspace field output" different from warp?
Does it lower mass?
Where is it established in canon?

1. It must be cos its what they did to move DS9 and DS9 does not have a warp drive ect.
2. Yes.

3. It is pretty much word for word what Dax said they needed to do to lighten its mass and move DS9.

It also explains how the deflector manages to move objects from the path of a starship at warp, as it normally projects the field ahead making objects lighter and easier to move with repulsor/tractor beams.

[Praeothmin]

So the explanation would be:
Sometimes they use mass-lightening at STL, and somtimes they don't, like when in combat, where most power not coming from the Warp Drive is needed for combat systems?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Since warp would tax systems, they'd logically avoid doing that. Not to say that the reduction of mass of an enemy projectile might not be perfect and represent a danger: when your ship's overall density won't act as a natural barrier against a projectile and its energy as well as it'd do in normal conditions, it's possible that you'd want to shut it down.
Besides, mere sublight rocking at warp could really be problematic if not handled properly. You could graze a planet too closely.

Besides, as pointed out before, maneuvering for combat at such speeds would be total madness unless both parties decided to stick to predictable routes for full minutes.

And, to finish, Memory Alpha's article on warp drives generate "warp fields to form a subspace bubble that envelops the starship."

I'd like to know where this comes from, but it would mean that O'brien found a system which could emulate certain properties of warp field by creating a subspace bubble like a warp field does.

[Mike DiCenso]

Here is the dialog:

DAX: Couldn't you modify the subspace field output of the deflector generators just enough to create a low-level field around the station?

O'BRIEN: So we could lower the inertial mass?

DAX: If you can make the station lighter, those six thrusters will be all the power we'd need.

They are using the station's deflectors to create a low-level field around the station.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Here is the dialog:

DAX: Couldn't you modify the subspace field output of the deflector generators just enough to create a low-level field around the station?

O'BRIEN: So we could lower the inertial mass?

DAX: If you can make the station lighter, those six thrusters will be all the power we'd need.

They are using the station's deflectors to create a low-level field around the station.
-Mike

What are they deflecting? Extra pounds? How is it supposed to relate to subspace technojiggamadjik?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

What are they deflecting? Extra pounds? How is it supposed to relate to subspace technojiggamadjik?

Solar winds, micro asteroids, all manner of other crap....

[Praeothmin]

Here is the dialog:

DAX: Couldn't you modify the subspace field output of the deflector generators just enough to create a low-level field around the station?

O'BRIEN: So we could lower the inertial mass?

DAX: If you can make the station lighter, those six thrusters will be all the power we'd need.

They are using the station's deflectors to create a low-level field around the station.
-Mike

What are they deflecting? Extra pounds? How is it supposed to relate to subspace technojiggamadjik?

Well, as we were so thoroughly explained, all technology is graviton based, so Deflectors control gravity fields, isn't it obvious?

[Mike DiCenso]

Well, the shields are graviton based, as per various readout displays we have seen in TNG and ST:Generations. So who knows what they use to control the gravitons with regarding their use in shields, which is where the subspace field comes into play. But subspace doesn't normally reduce mass, hence the modifications to allow total coverage and so on.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Do they make a big deal of it though? They didn't in TMP, nor did they in First Contact. It seemed perfectly normal.
For DS9, it was different because they were dealing with a space station. For Deja Q, it was exceptional because they had to apply the field to an entire moon and operate on the moon without fracturing it.
You may find a few caveats, but that's not important, because it's an idea that makes sense and explains the large discrepancy between STL speeds on impulse.

I have no recollection of mass lightening being talked about in First contact, or TMP.

Do remember DS9 was meant to move, and be moved at least at sub light speeds. It would make sense for it to have a mass lightening system if they are used for STL.

In Deja Q it seemed like the idea of mass lightening was not something used unless at warp.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Here is the dialog:

DAX: Couldn't you modify the subspace field output of the deflector generators just enough to create a low-level field around the station?

O'BRIEN: So we could lower the inertial mass?

DAX: If you can make the station lighter, those six thrusters will be all the power we'd need.

They are using the station's deflectors to create a low-level field around the station.
-Mike

What are they deflecting? Extra pounds? How is it supposed to relate to subspace technojiggamadjik?

Well, as we were so thoroughly explained, all technology is graviton based, so Deflectors control gravity fields, isn't it obvious?

I still fail to connect graviton based tech and subspace fields that alleviate effective mass. OK, let's just say that the subspace part is not explainable. That still leaves the capacity to lower mass... just like if you approached c, but with the opposite effect on mass.

[Mith]

Point: some impulse speeds imply a warp field, and it's up to the pilot to fiddle with said warp field to fit with the captain's objective. When there's no pressure, they won't use it.

Obviously not a perfect explanation, but it's better than nothing.

Bye

(HMBC style)

I would agree that impulse uses some form of subspace field similar to that of the Warp engines. How much of that is up to question. I typically toss out visual speeds and distances half the time in Trek simply because they're laughably inaccurate compared to how the story treats them (ie, see BoBW where the Enterprise is not nearly anywhere as fast as it should have been--which was around the speed of light).

I would agree with you simply to avoid the sillyness of Trek ships requiring the energy to hurl them at that speed. However, I think a better point is that the old 1701 used its warp drive as an alternate means of warp drive, albiet at lower speeds and at a greater cost.

It also makes more sense. =p