Colours and extravaganzia

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:04 am

Sullen gray. Depressing dark. Clinical white.

We don't want to stick out. We don't want to focus the ominous attention on ourselves, in fear of losing liberties, speech and move.
We crave for flocking, to feel part of a mass, to be comfortable, to coil in the remote corners of light left for us.
We don't want to feel alone, so we reject what could make each of us unique and beautiful.
We mock those who wander out of the circles.

I'm thinking... what would happen if people would not be enslaved, forced to work many tens of hours a week, far from wives, spouses kids and friends, to earn what's barely enough to live in the average Joe's cloned house, drive the same aerodynamic bleak car, eat the same food full of chemicals and get our must-have vaccine shots which, in the end, don't seem to make us stronger by any finesse of the mind, truly.

We'd so have nothing to do that to fully realize ourselves, we'd explore culture, politics, art and philosophies, and this would make our environment much more different, strange and mad.

...

ILikeDeathNote · Post by **ILikeDeathNote** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:03 am

...you ok there, Mr. Oragahn?

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:46 am

Speaking as someone who refuses to most of those things; nothing good would happen. People are designed to follow directions at this point. We, as a people, have ingrained the importance of fitting in, of being like everyone else, to the point of no return. We cannot change what we have done, not quickly, anyway.

Even those who claim to be free of mind crave some sort of order. Well, most people.

There are few who see the dangers of slavery of the mind. They are ostracised and treated as freaks. Individuality is discouraged. It is ever elusive. The majority of those worshipers of society can never achieve this.

If a person lives in a democracy, they believe they have chosen their lives, that they are being themselves, therefore, they can not be convinced differently. Tell the average person that they are a mindless slave in a society amongst massive amounts of mindless slaves, that their opinions are not their own, but those of the popular culture, and you would be lucky not to be shot.

It makes me sad.

I recognized this at a young age, and live my life how I want to, the way that suits my personality best. I don't purposely go against the grain, yet I generally fall there, because I allow myself to make my own decisions.

I am unemployed, living with my aunt, and unable to keep friends. I refuse to be just another face in the crowd, and I am rejected for it. My family, who love me, are barely able to conceal their disapproval of my opinions. My unique personality and beliefs, along with my staunch refusal to lie to protect myself or friends, keeps me from acquiring a job, from living any kind of life.

I am everything that I wished to be, I am happy with who I am, but no one else is. Because of this, the wonderful idea that you propose can never be. People like it this way.

Just an after thought, I am not complaining, I was using myself as an example of the futility of this beautiful notion. I am going to remain myself, and I am going to succeed. I am satisfied with what I have, if only because what I have is truly my own.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:55 am

Is this a comment on the fear mongering politics of recent years that seem much like Palpatine's reign, an anti-socialist stance or are you just drunk or on downers?

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:23 pm

GStone wrote:Is this a comment on the fear mongering politics of recent years that seem much like Palpatine's reign, an anti-socialist stance or are you just drunk or on downers?

Oh. I'd wish I could point to the last two. Easy excuses.

sonofccn · Post by **sonofccn** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:38 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Sullen gray. Depressing dark. Clinical white.

We don't want to stick out. We don't want to focus the ominous attention on ourselves, in fear of losing liberties, speech and move.
We crave for flocking, to feel part of a mass, to be comfortable, to coil in the remote corners of light left for us.
We don't want to feel alone, so we reject what could make each of us unique and beautiful.
We mock those who wander out of the circles.

I'm thinking... what would happen if people would not be enslaved, forced to work many tens of hours a week, far from wives, spouses kids and friends, to earn what's barely enough to live in the average Joe's cloned house, drive the same aerodynamic bleak car, eat the same food full of chemicals and get our must-have vaccine shots which, in the end, don't seem to make us stronger by any finesse of the mind, truly.

We'd so have nothing to do that to fully realize ourselves, we'd explore culture, politics, art and philosophies, and this would make our environment much more different, strange and mad.

...

Do you really see life this bleak? Does the sun ever rise where you live?

Anyway in todays age we are very tolerant of "nuts" and being a minority is almost a get out of jail free card as it is. If we "paid" people so not to be "enslaved" in my opinion would result in transforming otherwise productive members of society into wards of whoever is paying the bills with no advacment, no actual culture worthy of the name. Also you really are not against Vaccines are you?

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:35 pm

sonofccn wrote:Do you really see life this bleak?

I do enjoy my time, but the more time goes, the more I know that it's just a goddamn bubble that floats close to a nest of pins.

Does the sun ever rise where you live?

Every 24 hours. :)

Anyway in todays age we are very tolerant of "nuts" and being a minority is almost a get out of jail free card as it is.

We don't agree on the meaning of nut. You seem to think totally wacko.
I'm talking about people who would not have any inhibition to behave freely, outside of the models established by your cultures and forced down our throats through the tube.

If we "paid" people so not to be "enslaved" in my opinion would result in transforming otherwise productive members of society into wards of whoever is paying the bills with no advacment, no actual culture worthy of the name.

I'm not thinking of paying people to break free or whatever that's supposed to mean. I cannot imagine how useful or good that would be. However, I do consider that things would be far better for everybody if our money was not wasted in credits and war.

Also you really are not against Vaccines are you?

Depends which ones. Some are good, some are bad. Medicines has its positives and negatives.
When profit and some other ideologies compete with Hippocrates, we pay the high price, in every sense of the word.

ILikeDeathNote · Post by **ILikeDeathNote** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:43 pm

...yeah...all of you ok there, 'specially Mr. Oragahn?

I'm pretty sure, overall, you still have it better than I do.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:10 pm

ILikeDeathNote wrote:I'm pretty sure, overall, you still have it better than I do.

How so?

Although I have to say I have a very good life, and can't really ask for more, but how are you so certain that everybody else here has it better then you?

sonofccn · Post by **sonofccn** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:08 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:I do enjoy my time, but the more time goes, the more I know that it's just a goddamn bubble that floats close to a nest of pins.

You have to have more faith in the world. If you believe it's nothing more then a trap ready to be sprung on you than that is all it is going to be.

We don't agree on the meaning of nut. You seem to think totally wacko.

I used it for anyone who operates outside the baseline of "normal". I'm not fully sure what sort of "nut" you are refering too.

I'm talking about people who would not have any inhibition to behave freely, outside of the models established by your cultures and forced down our throats through the tube.

Some inhibitions are needed for survival, hence why cultures exist in the first place. There has and must always be limits on people. I guess I need more information on just what sort of deviance we are talking about. It isn't like humanity is a group of uniformed blobs we already have radical differnces even in suburbia.

I'm not thinking of paying people to break free or whatever that's supposed to mean. I cannot imagine how useful or good that would be. However, I do consider that things would be far better for everybody if our money was not wasted in credits and war.

That is the logical outcome of removing "strife" from man. If he doesn't have to work to put a roof over his head or food on the table why work at all?

I'm afraid I'm confused with "credits". Are you refering to our credit card culture, own now pay later mentality or something else?

Depends which ones. Some are good, some are bad. Medicines has its positives and negatives.
When profit and some other ideologies compete with Hippocrates, we pay the high price, in every sense of the word.

What is a bad vaccine if I may ask?

ILikeDeathNote · Post by **ILikeDeathNote** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:31 pm

Praeothmin wrote: How so?

Well, I don't have a job for one, so I'm kinda right there on the bubble, and for whatever reason it's been damn difficult for me to get a job, so my personal morale has pretty much hit rock bottom.

But I still have a good life. Obviously, I still have access to an Internet connection and you can reasonably infer the rest of my life from that. Which is to say is in turn way better than a lot of people, even in this country (the United States).

And this only serves to further illustrate my point. But "everybody" I was specifically referring to Mr. Oragahn and Airlocke_Jedi_Knight (yes, it was a rather unfair label but I didn't bother to see who was replying) because I'm still confused as to what the purpose of this thread is for other than for despair and complaining.

I get enough of that from the national and local TV news.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight · Post by **Airlocke_Jedi_Knight** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:04 am

Well, in most facets of my life, I get the raw deal, ILDN. This disheartened me, and I decided that I would try to find a reason for it. I have found a reason that fits quite nicely, and is pretty similar to what Oragahn wrote.

People, that is to say, the general population, like normal. They like people who follow orders, don't ask questions, and move within the flow of society, who don't stand above the crowd. When someone is different, truly different, not just "hey look at me, I do exactly what I'm supposed to do, but I do it in a cool way" different. Someone who truly sees the world in a different light(or is hideous or mentally retarded) most of society rejects them, those who don't try to make them more normal. Someone who is truly unique will never live a fully satisfactory life, even if they become rich and famous, the general populace will treat them differently.

People are forced to, more or less, be the same person...and most like it. Most like it so much, that they won't accept that they are being controlled and have surrendered their own personality for the generic one suited for "fitting in".

That is the reason that I have found for my misfortune: I refuse to jump in with the flow and become another faceless blob. I like being my own blob, and because of that, I will never be accepted for who I am by the masses. I am fine with this. I will not complain about it. I almost like it. See, the actions of most people confuse me, I don't like being confused.

Also, don't misunderstand me, I like other people, and I have the occasional friend, I even see some positives in our current culture. I just think that society is robbing most of our individuality. You are free to disagree, of course. This is just how I see things, I could most definitely be mistaken, and...I'm fine with that.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:10 am

sonofccn wrote:You have to have more faith in the world. If you believe it's nothing more then a trap ready to be sprung on you than that is all it is going to be.

I'm a guy who is very pessimistic, but with a naive and sensitive optimistic fiber at the core. I want to think I have a deep faith in humanity, really, but I see a lot that reveals how all of it is shards, and that ranges beyond the political considerations, or knowing if man is more dangerous to man in group or alone. I see that what is good to find in ourselves is hard to obtain, to reach. People don't even dare to help other people, for the fear of feeling overtly...sensitive? Light-hearted? Stupid?
You say the news are bringing you enough of the despair. Don't you feel how we're slowly slipping by design?
What I was told explained a great deal about the issues the whole world keeps going through since the last three centuries, especially the last one.
I talked with people older than me. Fairly established peoples. Some had their own business. We talked about the real. We didn't see how it could change without a massive quake. But we also agreed that we should mind the leader, at any time, as any move should be a sum of the individuals, always.

You say that you get your fair dose of despair through the TV. There are glimpses of faith and clarity, but in general, the vast flux of data spirits the wicked and sick.
My mobile phone keeps receiving "news", and 90% of them are negative, 9% neutral, 1% positive (relative).

There's a sweet ooze of umpending doom these days. The media surely feed this. Revealations, outrage, the people are displeased. But the media make sure the rage is focused on the same old pety bickering, which while it seems extremely important, it is not.
Recently, I learnt that my country, which I thought was a good example of democracy, did in fact declare unlawful the acquisition of certain TV channels.
Why? You can guess, but the idea is simple: it does not fit. It does not fit with the superficial and simple message we get fed with day after day.

On the small scale, I am happy. I have my friends, family, my hobbies, my films, games, music, etc.
On the greater scales, from social, national, to worldwide, I am not. I cannot see how things could change positively for the centuries to come.
That's the point. All people beg for keeping their bubble safe. Their home is their last refuge. But the inside walls of your lair reflect the colours of the media.

I used it for anyone who operates outside the baseline of "normal". I'm not fully sure what sort of "nut" you are refering too.

Nevermind. :D

Some inhibitions are needed for survival, hence why cultures exist in the first place. There has and must always be limits on people. I guess I need more information on just what sort of deviance we are talking about. It isn't like humanity is a group of uniformed blobs we already have radical differnces even in suburbia.

There are differences between social and behavioural models, little between each individual.
Hairdo, clothes, glasses, language, it's generally part of given molds. Yet, how ironic, when the force of the mass is precisely the adhesion to a singular top model, with variances at its base.
You think you can change, you think you can experiment, but the reality is that by the time you start to do so, you'd reach the mold's edge, and a choice comes to you: to jump out or not. What is outside? Would you fall and find social death?
For example, observe how the financial milieu attract millions of people all wearing the same dark/gray suits. Although speculation is based on emotion, it is not empathic, positive human emotion. Humanitarian sane emotion. You cannot untie the tie. You cannot break the dress code. :)
Kinda sucks eh?

That is the logical outcome of removing "strife" from man. If he doesn't have to work to put a roof over his head or food on the table why work at all?

Interesting.
We are getting ahead of the first step. The first step is to come to parity with the effort and reward, with the dispensed and useful. Hedonism is many steps up, and for the moment... irrelevant.
We need, first, to get to the point where the hard work we complete every day, for those who can, lucky or not, is actually useful. We must not get confused between the possible necessity of labour, and the intended goal of such labour. If labour is for the betterment of society, we are on the right path. But we are not.
For eons, prestigious schools have formatted the minds of millions of economists, who are supposedly enjoying a greater understanding of the economical system, as they often pedantically remind us.
How is it that a system put in place by man, poses issues which the greatest minds of the planet have failed to solve for a century?
How can it be that even the wealthiest and most powerful countries of this planet have not managed to break free of the clutches of the vast abyss that syphons our lives?
Why should we believe that tomorrow, we would find the solution to the very mechanical and inhumane power house our leaders have erected?
How do we kill this sort of... vampire? It doesn't seem people even want to know, because it only brings sadness. You then realize the millions sacrificed.

I'm afraid I'm confused with "credits". Are you refering to our credit card culture, own now pay later mentality or something else?

Well, this mentality is hard to fight back. We live in such times that credit is a necessity. You could avoid credit, but the culture is one of ultra-materialism that encourages relentless consumption of the resources.
The system moves on its own, where it's impossible to figure out who's pulling who, if it's adaptive to the whims of the free people, or crafted and then enforced, slowly. Quick sand standards?
Pff. What kind of house, equipment, mean of transportation can you have if you don't accept credit?
Worse. Why should you pay to have a right to settle on the land, when it is state owned by default, or acquired with private funds surpassing the purchase power of billions?
Your right to live and move is determined by your will to embrace credit.

What is a bad vaccine if I may ask?

One which not uniquely acts preemptively for positive end results to supposedly avoid extremely regretful effects, but would actually end hurting you more.
We keep eating chemically enhanced food. We keep taking pills, drugs, covering ourselves with creams, all to make ourselves healthier and tougher. Yet, we're getting weak, depressed, obese, ill, tired.
Autism, diabetes and cancer keep spreading.

Are our bodies that defective by nature?

EDIT: by the way, I am not depressed, in case you wonder. I have plenty of projects so forth and so on, I just cross my fingers (ahr ahr) in the hope all goes well, since I believe in them and, well, think they have a lot of potential (aaww... I'd almost call that a big headed remark). I'm excited only to think about how just cool they are... on paper at least. ^_^

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:52 pm

Oragahn, I too sometimes despair in humanity's case when I look at the masses, and the news.
But, then I look at my friends, at the people around me, my friends, my colleagues, my family, and I feel good about the world, because I figure, as long as there will be people like the ones I know, the world isn't such a bad place...

:)

sonofccn · Post by **sonofccn** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:26 pm

You say the news are bringing you enough of the despair. Don't you feel how we're slowly slipping by design?

The news likes to be bleak. Bleak sells, sunshine doesn't. Now I'm not saying we, humans in general, have our share of problems and issues. We are a flawed race but you have to focus on the good and work to improve that. Just keep an eye on the bad to keep it in check. :)

Recently, I learnt that my country, which I thought was a good example of democracy, did in fact declare unlawful the acquisition of certain TV channels.

Where is this? Did Obama sign a law I wasn't aware of or is this another country? Sorry in advance I tend to forget which nation everyone is from.

Hairdo, clothes, glasses, language, it's generally part of given molds. Yet, how ironic, when the force of the mass is precisely the adhesion to a singular top model, with variances at its base.
You think you can change, you think you can experiment, but the reality is that by the time you start to do so, you'd reach the mold's edge, and a choice comes to you: to jump out or not. What is outside? Would you fall and find social death?

I won't argue that man has a need to belong to something greater then himself but your argumant is that there is something preventing people from truly being themselves. We all chose to make that jump or not. If conforming gave them that much displeasure they could change and no one could stop them.

We are getting ahead of the first step. The first step is to come to parity with the effort and reward

I put my faith in the free market for that. The more effort , in terms of time or skill, you put in the more reward you recieve. It is the only fair system.

We need, first, to get to the point where the hard work we complete every day, for those who can, lucky or not, is actually useful. We must not get confused between the possible necessity of labour, and the intended goal of such labour. If labour is for the betterment of society, we are on the right path. But we are not.

I must ask by what criteria is usefulness defined? I would think any task that someone is willing to trade credits,food,money, time for in exchange for it being completed therefore is useful.

How can it be that even the wealthiest and most powerful countries of this planet have not managed to break free of the clutches of the vast abyss that syphons our lives?
Why should we believe that tomorrow, we would find the solution to the very mechanical and inhumane

Simple. We won't There will always be injustice, poor and uncontented people for as long as we exist. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to improve ourselves but asking for perfection is a fool's errand.

Well, this mentality is hard to fight back. We live in such times that credit is a necessity. You could avoid credit, but the culture is one of ultra-materialism that encourages relentless consumption of the resources.
The system moves on its own, where it's impossible to figure out who's pulling who, if it's adaptive to the whims of the free people, or crafted and then enforced, slowly. Quick sand standards?
Pff. What kind of house, equipment, mean of transportation can you have if you don't accept credit?
Worse. Why should you pay to have a right to settle on the land, when it is state owned by default, or acquired with private funds surpassing the purchase power of billions?
Your right to live and move is determined by your will to embrace credit.

Okay I understand what your saying now. I don't in theroy see anything wrong with credit. As you said buying a car or a house with cash on hand would be difficult at best. However yes within the last couple of generations everybody wanted everything and spares to go with it. The problem however will correct itself as we are witnessing. Bad behavior will always be punished eventually.

One which not uniquely acts preemptively for positive end results to supposedly avoid extremely regretful effects, but would actually end hurting you more.
We keep eating chemically enhanced food. We keep taking pills, drugs, covering ourselves with creams, all to make ourselves healthier and tougher. Yet, we're getting weak, depressed, obese, ill, tired.
Autism, diabetes and cancer keep spreading.

Are our bodies that defective by nature?

I would say that for Autism, diabetes and cancer it reflects us beating back the other more deadly plauges upon mankind. We don't die of smallpox, or chicken pox anymore. We live far beyond 40-60 years most humans were alloted for most of human history. All this takes it tolls on us. Give us time and we'll beat back everything except dieing of heart failure at a hundred of something infront of the tv. :)

Starfleet Jedi

Colours and extravaganzia

Colours and extravaganzia

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