Obama the Vulcan?

[Jedi Master Spock]

One of my co-workers just suggested to me that Obama is like a Vulcan, and was thinking of making his own iron-on T-shirt to that effect.

I was wondering what the rest of you thought about that comparison. I'm genuinely curious, since while most of you know a lot about Star Trek, you do come from a wide variety of backgrounds and political affiliations.

[Flectarn]

I'd say he's about as emotionless as T'Pol.

i'm undecided on how logical his policies are

[2046]

Appeal to emotion might be a logical tactic for a Vulcan to take, but one would expect this maneuver to be performed in support of logical goals. Ergo, no Vulcan is he.

[Cocytus]

This could be fun.

Obama the Vulcan: Judgement, temperance.

McCain the Klingon: Honorable warrior, strong leadership

Biden the Cardassian, maybe? Skillful maneuverer, loquacious, but no filter.

And, of course, Palin the Pakled :)

Then, let's see.......Nader the Q? Pops up every so often just to remind you he exists, then disappears again.

Anyway, I thought I should inject some harmless fun into this.

[Mr. Oragahn]

And Bush? Ferengi?

[Praeothmin]

And Bush? Ferengi?

Are you kidding????
Ferengi are cunning, while George Bush is... well, George Bush.
I think he'd even be considered retarded by the Pakleds... ;)

[Cocytus]

The best Bush/Cheney analogue comes from Star Wars, not Star Trek. ;)

[Jedi Master Spock]

Well, I think the comparison hinges more on style than policy issues. Obama does have the style of a law professor (unsurprisingly) - i.e., an intellectual - and never seems to lose his cool, two very Vulcan-esque elements of style.

Apparently Cheney liked being compared to Darth Vader, curiously enough.

[GStone]

That's enough to not call him Vader.

[Jedi Master Spock]

And Bush? Ferengi?

Are you kidding????
Ferengi are cunning, while George Bush is... well, George Bush.
I think he'd even be considered retarded by the Pakleds... ;)

It's easy to underestimate Bush's intelligence. For IQ - the most broadly accepted measure of intelligence - experts put him around 125, which would place him around the 95th percentile of the population. And I can believe that.

This is actually on the low side for a US president; see here for a pretty complete list of estimates. Simonton puts Bush as being 7-13 points below average for US presidents (and in 38th-41st place out of 42); however, it's not particularly low in the general population.

I've mentioned previously - when we were discussing education and IQ - that the average IQ of a working engineer is about 116 - about 70th percentile. A 125 IQ would be above average in most professions that people don't expect you to have a doctorate in.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Bush actually suffers dyslexia iirc. This is a bitch and messes up your formulations and capacity to voice your thoughts pretty badly in certain cases. If that wasn't enough, he also had to keep his coolness while covering 9/11. He's done quite a good job at it. Still, many Bushisms are true gold though.

[Cocytus]

It's easy to misunderestimate Bush's intelligence.

Fixed it for you, JMS :)

In any case, had 9/11 not occurred, Bush would have been a fine "feel good" president. We'd have had his tax cuts, and people could have argued over that, but in general he'd have been fine for peacetime. He thinks too simply, using terms like "good" and "evil" in a world whose complexity invalidates them. But nevertheless he'd have done well without much to do. Unfortunately fate thrust him into a role which, though no-one could possibly have been prepared for it, I feel required a much cooler head than his.

I remember the anti-Muslim sentiment that 9/11 inflamed. I saw the burning hole in the Pentagon with my own eyes not 30 minutes after the impact. There was a huge plume of black smoke going over the Potomac, and 395 South affords you a great view of the building. I can tell you I wasn't exactly championing coolheadedness either after seeing that. (It saddens me to see that so much anti-Muslim sentiment still exists 7 years later. Just look at all the fearmongers out to use Obama's middle name against him. HUSSEIN. So-f***ing-what!?)

I thought pretty highly of him at the time, when he stood on Ground Zero with his megaphone to reassure New York. I rejoiced in his speech announcing the War on Terror: "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." Regardless of how he's added, albeit unintentionally, to the comedic lexicon, he handled the immediate aftermath of 9/11 well. I believe his approval rating was around 90% back then. Bet he wishes for those days.

As far as comedic quotes go, Donald Rumsfeld absolutely takes the cake.

"There are known knowns, things we know we know, known unknowns, things we know we don't know, and unknown unknowns, things we don't know we don't know."

Lordy. If I had to pick one single quote from the Administration, it'd be that one.

[Mr. Oragahn]

It's easy to misunderestimate Bush's intelligence.

Fixed it for you, JMS :)

In any case, had 9/11 not occurred, Bush would have been a fine "feel good" president. We'd have had his tax cuts, and people could have argued over that, but in general he'd have been fine for peacetime. He thinks too simply, using terms like "good" and "evil" in a world whose complexity invalidates them.

You know, that's quite the texan cliché at work here, big tough guys, heroes and a pinch of false dilemma, never mind if it hardly fits the realities of Texas itself, Houston and all.

But nevertheless he'd have done well without much to do. Unfortunately fate thrust him into a role which, though no-one could possibly have been prepared for it, I feel required a much cooler head than his.

Err... fate?
It's certainly all but fate. Political agendas, plans and insane amounts of money hardly define fate in my book.

remember the anti-Muslim sentiment that 9/11 inflamed.

Who's fault though? The media certainly didn't do anything to prevent that.
Appeals to lack of security either swing between looming terrorist act or pedophiles kidnapping kids.

I saw the burning hole in the Pentagon with my own eyes not 30 minutes after the impact. There was a huge plume of black smoke going over the Potomac, and 395 South affords you a great view of the building. I can tell you I wasn't exactly championing coolheadedness either after seeing that. (It saddens me to see that so much anti-Muslim sentiment still exists 7 years later. Just look at all the fearmongers out to use Obama's middle name against him. HUSSEIN. So-f***ing-what!?)

Huh, is it any better than electing Obama just because he is black or moving away from Cheney because Bin Laden supposedly supports him (:rolleyes:) though?

I thought pretty highly of him at the time, when he stood on Ground Zero with his megaphone to reassure New York. I rejoiced in his speech announcing the War on Terror: "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." Regardless of how he's added, albeit unintentionally, to the comedic lexicon, he handled the immediate aftermath of 9/11 well. I believe his approval rating was around 90% back then. Bet he wishes for those days.

He could have said he'd eat your children and sodomize your spouses, he'd still have got the 90% back then. That's the magic of a good political and media machine.
You bet he's going to have issues getting those 90% now if he had to, because people have come to their senses and smelled the fish in this stuff.

As far as comedic quotes go, Donald Rumsfeld absolutely takes the cake.

"There are known knowns, things we know we know, known unknowns, things we know we don't know, and unknown unknowns, things we don't know we don't know."

Lordy. If I had to pick one single quote from the Administration, it'd be that one.

Oh shit, he was broke?

[Cocytus]

In any case, had 9/11 not occurred, Bush would have been a fine "feel good" president. We'd have had his tax cuts, and people could have argued over that, but in general he'd have been fine for peacetime. He thinks too simply, using terms like "good" and "evil" in a world whose complexity invalidates them.

You know, that's quite the texan cliché at work here, big tough guys, heroes and a pinch of false dilemma, never mind if it hardly fits the realities of Texas itself, Houston and all.

What? Who's stereotyping Texans? I'm referring to all his "axis of evil" stuff.

But nevertheless he'd have done well without much to do. Unfortunately fate thrust him into a role which, though no-one could possibly have been prepared for it, I feel required a much cooler head than his.

Err... fate?
It's certainly all but fate. Political agendas, plans and insane amounts of money hardly define fate in my book.

I was referring to 9/11, not the 2000 election.

Besides, whatever was going on in Florida, Gore would have won had he carried his home state of Tennessee. The electoral vote in 2000 landed 271-267, and Tennessee's worth 11. He lost it mainly because he couldn't keep his mouth shut about the 2nd Amendment. Thankfully DC vs Heller took that issue of the table, and I don't see Obama doing anything about it. There are safeguards in place to prevent him from stacking the Supreme Court. Justices serve until they die or retire. He'd have to wait until then, appoint new ones, have them confirmed by the Senate Judiciary Committee, etc. And the Supreme Court would have to hear another 2nd Amendment case. It couldn't just double-back on an earlier ruling.

remember the anti-Muslim sentiment that 9/11 inflamed.

Who's fault though? The media certainly didn't do anything to prevent that.
Appeals to lack of security either swing between looming terrorist act or pedophiles kidnapping kids.

The End of Days makes great copy, yes. But in the end you're in control of how you react. If you react impulsively and with racist sentiment, you're to blame for it.

I saw the burning hole in the Pentagon with my own eyes not 30 minutes after the impact. There was a huge plume of black smoke going over the Potomac, and 395 South affords you a great view of the building. I can tell you I wasn't exactly championing coolheadedness either after seeing that. (It saddens me to see that so much anti-Muslim sentiment still exists 7 years later. Just look at all the fearmongers out to use Obama's middle name against him. HUSSEIN. So-f***ing-what!?)

Huh, is it any better than electing Obama just because he is black or moving away from Cheney because Bin Laden supposedly supports him (:rolleyes:) though?

My reasons for voting Obama are primarily foreign policy related. I vehemently disagree with Bush Doctrine. American IS answerable to the world community. PERIOD. I agree with Barack Obama's intention to engage Middle East leaders in talks. All we do now is sanction, sanction, sanction. What reason do they have to give a damn what we think? Part of the reason that our troop surge is working is the Sunni Awakening. Obama hopes to effect something similar with moderate Taliban leaders. I'm waiting to see what Iran does in its upcoming 2009 election. If we must continue to deal with Ahmadinejad, then so be it. Let's at least see what talking to him and Ali Khamenei can do, instead of simply ruling it out.

I thought pretty highly of him at the time, when he stood on Ground Zero with his megaphone to reassure New York. I rejoiced in his speech announcing the War on Terror: "We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail." Regardless of how he's added, albeit unintentionally, to the comedic lexicon, he handled the immediate aftermath of 9/11 well. I believe his approval rating was around 90% back then. Bet he wishes for those days.

He could have said he'd eat your children and sodomize your spouses, he'd still have got the 90% back then. That's the magic of a good political and media machine.
You bet he's going to have issues getting those 90% now if he had to, because people have come to their senses and smelled the fish in this stuff.

Oh, he couldn't come close. I think the lowest approval rating ever reached historically belongs to Truman, though.

As far as comedic quotes go, Donald Rumsfeld absolutely takes the cake.

"There are known knowns, things we know we know, known unknowns, things we know we don't know, and unknown unknowns, things we don't know we don't know."

Lordy. If I had to pick one single quote from the Administration, it'd be that one.

Oh shit, he was broke?

No, he was working. Might have made more sense had he been broken. In fairness, these are kind of impromptu meetings with the Pentagon press corps and DOD, but that one's still a doozy.