Nonamer wrote:What do you want then? Space Shuttle vs ISS? Unfortunately for us, in the real world, we don't have very many good examples at all.
I would like an example that actually proves your point. Let's go back at your example with cars. US produces 5 million cars a year. Assuming each one wheights about 1000kg we are talking 5 million tons per year. An average car costs say 10,000 $ so we are talking about 10$/kg for an average car.
Now let's say that US produces one aircraft every five years, that would be some 20,000 tons per year. An aircraft costs about 4.5 billion $ and that would make it's cost 45$/kg. So even though US produces roughly 200 times more cars, in mass, than aircraft carriers their price per unit of mass is still not orders of magnitude lesser.
Nonamer wrote:Neither is a dam, seeing how dams can make electricity. And it's a dam versus any other concrete or masonry building.
You seem to be forgetting that economy of scale works for mass production of many small objects just as well as for mass producing parts for one big object. You are silently assuming that Empire didn't mass produce smaller ships so you can claim that Death Star will be much cheaper than an ISD so you can claim that the Empire cannot mass produce the ISDs. That is circular reasoning and even if we accept it there is still no way that Death Star will magically become 1000 times cheaper per unit of mass than an ISD.
Could you please elaborate on just how big those buildings are and how much material was spent on them?
Jedi Master Spock wrote:Their trade fleet. For point #2, see the fear of the Republic building an army in secret (justified).
No they had a full blown military fleet at the start of TPM. Haven't you watched the film? Their ships had weapons, shields and they had an army. And your point two is laugable. How can Republic's "secret" military production exceed Trade Federation's total military production expecially since, according to you, Republic still doesn't have a fleet.
And you still
haven't answered my point about individual members maintaining their own fleets as demonstrated by Naboo.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:Battleship-destroying abilities aren't necessary; assassination abilities alone are quite able to generate fear. So, for that matter, are unknown abilities. The Jedi are not particularly well understood by anyone else; this makes them feared. Understand now?
Don't make me laugh. How the hell are Jedi supposed to get through the weapons fire of enemy battleships, get through their shields and then get through the droid security in order to disable it? And to do so in thick of battle and against as many ships to actually make a difference in a war? Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon had to escape
from the battleship in order to save lives and they were invited
Jedi Master Spock wrote:You're talking technology and numbers, not tactics and training.
Yes and that's all you need to build ships. As I sad you don't need tactics and training to know that more ships=better. You are suggesting that Republic leaders are so stupid that they cannot even comprehend that having more ships will help their cause. That's beyond ridiculous.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:As demonstated on the main website, the Death Star's mobility is severely limited.
No it isn't. For a starship of it's size it's manuverability is excellent.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:Talk of size is amply addressed by others. For reference (I see some of you searching for figures, so I'll provide some for you to use), for each factor of ten of displacement a cutting-edge modern warship increases, cost increases by a factor of roughly four. 100 ton patrol boat, $60M; 1,000 ton corvette, $250M; 10,000 ton cruiser, $1B; 100,000 ton aircraft carrier, $4B.
Actually Cyclone class patrol boat displaces 336 tons while Nimitz class aircraft carrier displaces 87,300 tons. This means that Cyclone costs 180$/kg while Nimitz class costs 51$/kg. That's 3.5 times increase for a 263 times bigger ship. Of course this does not include the fact that cost of maintaining an aircraft carrier is much bigger nor the cost of it's fighter wing.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:DS9 was supposedly unable to move, as a matter of fact; in practice, it more or less matched the Death Star's acceleration, to within MOE. This establishes similar mobility requirements. (Note to self: Update DS9 Sublight page.)
Yes a ten million times smaller structure matched the acceleration of the Death Star while almost breaking apart. Very impressive. But you again missed the whole point: DS9 was not designed for such accelerations and it was very dangerous to move it like that unlike Death Star.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:In the Dominion War, it was established that any station was a hard nut to crack. This establishes weaponry and shielding.
Stop making things up. It was established that a certain
Cardassian starbase on the front lines was a though nut to crack. Nobody said anything about those huge Federation starbases.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:The considerably larger number of starbases and considerably smaller size of Starfleet's ships completes the analogy in utter equivalence.
No it doesn't since we never saw those large starbases demonstrate any functions that are normally expected from a military starship unlike Death Star.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:Unit=clone. As is perfectly clear in the movies as well as EU. As far as long distance shots showing as many clones, no, quite the contrary. 1 2 3
All indications are that the clones (a) were outnumbered and (b) outperformed the droids.
Please provide evidence that unit=clone since unit can be any homogeneous military organization. And I really don't see what you are trying to prove with your screenshots. The first one shows that number of clones is roughly equal to the number of droids while the other two are showing only droid forces.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:A question whose answer was quick - the Imperial governors, rather than the Senate. The question was not one of administration, but of political appeasement; the answer was that there would be no more political appeasement of the systems' original planetary governments, who selected the senators.
Yes but until that point senate still had some power. Power which wouldn't be needed anymore since Emperor though that through fear alone he could control the galaxy. This still doesn't answer how the Empire could keep Death Star a secret if significant amount of it's resources were being diverted to the Death Star.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:Tatooine had no permanent Imperial fleet presence.
I merely mentioned Tatooine as an example. You still haven't answered my question of why do you think that ship in system=system under control.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:Easily. It's easier to build ships in a dedicated enclosure, but nothing prevents you from just hanging them free in space.
It gets easier as they get larger, in fact, thanks to gravity. Microgravity helps keep things from drifting away.
You really are desperate now arent you? "Helps keep thing from drifting away" What "things"? They do have sublight engines, magnets and tractor beams in case you forgot. How strong is this microgravity anyway?
Jedi Master Spock wrote:You're still assuming the Empire has transparent finances - a poor assumption.
Who cares abot finances? I am talking about something like thousands of trillions tons of metal being transported to one place in one year. I'm talking about billions of workers being transported to one place. If this represents a large fraction of Imperial resources then someone is going to notice. Do you think that USSR could round up, say, 25% of it's workers and no one would notice?
Jedi Master Spock wrote:There is a large difference between "most of the industry" and "most of the industry that can be spared for military purposes."
So? How does this make it any easier? If 50% of workers in military sector are tranferred to a single post you think they will be able to hide it?
Jedi Master Spock wrote:That said, in Star Wars, very few personnel are required to actually ship something from location A to location B, and only pilot, navigator, and captain need know what system it is.
And to unload it? To load it? To carry that material from the factory to the tranporter? Give me break.
And you are still missing the point. This is not about people talking, although that is also a problem, but about people simply noticing that a large fraction of military production and workers have disappered.