Political Compass?

[mojo]

Picard, your avatar picture looks exactly like my grandmother.

She recently, at the young age of 89, married a young african-american man in his early twenties who was desperate to obtain citizenship, with the intention of 'starting a family', and consummated the marriage in the front seat of his car, to his horror. needless to say, he reevaluated his priorities and moved back to africa.

given that this is not made up, i beg you to consider changing ava pics so that i don't always have to keep throwing up in my mouth every time you post. any chance? please?

[Khas]

You're grandma looks like the Steward of Gondor from Lord of the Rings? O_o

[mojo]

i would have to say that yes, apparently she does. i had thought that was a picture of the bad guy from the one GOOD die hard pretending to be severus snape. i guess both wizards in hobbitland AND cross-dressing bank robbers pretending to be terrorists look exactly like my grandmother.
it's a weird fucking world, man.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

I have at no time ever decried law and order. I simply believe you have a right to smoke twenty packs a day and eat fattening food if that is how you want to live your life.

This is the same argument used by Conservatives, most of whom were Southern Conservatives (this can be backed up through statistical data) rallying against abolitionism, civil rights, women's rights and desegregation. It is used by companies not giving a shit about how much they screw the environment. Or some smokers who subject others to second hand smoke.

Obviously you should be able to do what you want to do...so long as it does not harm others. Nobody claims that you cannot eat fattening foods or smoke twenty packs a day though.

[Admiral Breetai]

I have at no time ever decried law and order. I simply believe you have a right to smoke twenty packs a day and eat fattening food if that is how you want to live your life.

This is the same argument used by Southerners rallying against abolitionism, civil rights, women's rights and desegregation. It is used by companies giving a shit about how much they screw the environment. Or smokers who subject others to second hand smoke.

Obviously you should be able to do what you want to do...so long as it does not harm others. Nobody claims that you cannot eat fattening foods or smoke twenty packs a day though.

oh look you just made a racist statement against southerners

[Picard]

i would have to say that yes, apparently she does. i had thought that was a picture of the bad guy from the one GOOD die hard pretending to be severus snape. i guess both wizards in hobbitland AND cross-dressing bank robbers pretending to be terrorists look exactly like my grandmother.
it's a weird fucking world, man.

Is new one better?

I also got little tired of old one.

And for next change I'll finally put my Star Trek nicknamesake... unless I forget, of course.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

oh look you just made a racist statement against southerners

How amazingly incoherent of you. In addition to feeling the need to throw a hostile accusation in a friendly, non-debate thread for absolutely no reason whatsoever, you proceed to conclude that "southerners" is a "racist" term. Yes, I really hate the "southern" race.

[Mike DiCenso]

oh look you just made a racist statement against southerners

How amazingly incoherent of you. In addition to feeling the need to throw a hostile accusation in a friendly, non-debate thread for absolutely no reason whatsoever, you proceed to conclude that "southerners" is a "racist" term. Yes, I really hate the "southern" race.

Both of you knock it off right now. SWST, you made a blanket statement against all people living in the south-eastern United States. That's more than a bit inflammatory, don't you think? And Breetai, your response in reply is typical of the knee-jerk response that continually gets you into trouble.

This is your first and last warning in this thread. Next time it goes on your offical rosters, and SWST, you have far less margin than Breetai does before that results in a ban for you.
-Mike

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Both of you knock it off right now. SWST, you made a blanket statement against all people living in the south-eastern United States. That's more than a bit inflammatory, don't you think?

Perhaps I should clarify.

I used a "blanket" statement for the sake of convenience. Did I state that all southerners thought X? When one states "people didn't like him", do they mean "all people didn't like him"? No. While not all Southerners were racist, most racist politicians were Southern Conservatives. This is something that I can prove by statistical fact. Similarly, there are far too many examples to count of both sides of the Debate stating "Trekkies say X, Warsies state Y"; no sane debaters claim that all on either side say it. Blanket statements can be useful.

But I will edit my post to be more polite to any southern members of this board.

[Admiral Breetai]

[
How amazingly incoherent of you. In addition to feeling the need to throw a hostile accusation in a friendly, non-debate thread for absolutely no reason whatsoever, you proceed to conclude that "southerners" is a "racist" term. Yes, I really hate the "southern" race.

Southerners to this day regard themselves as a culture a very old one with traditions dating back hundreds of years they consider themselves a minority..one that apparently often feels persecuted and prejudiced by the left in this country.

According to them what you said was in fact a bigoted statement

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Disclaimer: by "Southerners" I mean "a decent portion of Southerners". You know, just like how Breetai is also using blanket statements.

Southerners to this day regard themselves as a culture a very old one with traditions dating back hundreds of years

All cultures that have been around for any decent amount of time have old traditions. The problem with some southerners is that they support tradition not because it is beneficiary or moral or logical, but just because it is tradition. You know, this used to be slavery. Then it was racism and the planter aristocracy. Now it's homophobia.

they consider themselves a minority..

Except that they're not a minority.

one that apparently often feels persecuted and prejudiced by the left in this country.

Yet back then, they felt no problems with persecuting far more bluntly and painfully a race of people for absolutely no moral reason whatsoever.

Now, most southerners aren't especially racist. But many are still homophobic, and many still hate atheists, agnostics, (to a lesser extent) muslims, etc.

According to them what you said was in fact a bigoted statement

"According to them" makes it right now?

[sonofccn]

This is the same argument used by Conservatives, most of whom were Southern Conservatives (this can be backed up through statistical data) rallying against abolitionism, civil rights, women's rights and desegregation.

What does any of what Southern Democrates fought for have to do with my argument?

I am advocating that it is your right as a Freeman to make bad decisions, to eat fattening food and perish from a heart attack without some nanny busy body trodding all over you. You are free to take the opposing side but please explain why you feel vindicated to intrude and mess with people's lives, to dictate to them how they should live.

It is used by companies not giving a shit about how much they screw the environment.

Again I'm not seeing the leap from me not wearing a seatbelt or eating to much transfats or anything else the microregulators want to stop to protect me and dumping toxic waste.

Or some smokers who subject others to second hand smoke.

Which isn't even part of the argument so far. We are talking about if you have a right or not to simply smoke, in the privacy of your own home with cigerates you paid with your own money for.

Obviously you should be able to do what you want to do...so long as it does not harm others. Nobody claims that you cannot eat fattening foods or smoke twenty packs a day though.

Then you didn't read the thread your posting in. That was the argument with me advocating personal freedom and responsibility with Praeo making the case we all live interconnected lives. That my bad decisions cost him somewhere down the line.

At no point have I ever argued you should do whatever you want regardless of its outcome to those around you, I have not advocated wild and carefree chaos. Hell I fall short of Libertarians ideas of personal freedom, through I am not without some sympathy for certain arguments I have too large a streak demanding order to go over as it were, I'm just a guy who thinks what I eat is out of the reach of goverment.

[Admiral Breetai]

All cultures that have been around for any decent amount of time have old traditions. The problem with some southerners is that they support tradition not because it is beneficiary or moral or logical, but just because it is tradition. You know, this used to be slavery. Then it was racism and the planter aristocracy. Now it's homophobia.

and what? do you condemn Muslims for their rampant homophobia? oh and believe me it's rampant when their most severe insults all involve attacking your masculinity and implying buttsexs

or how about the African American or Latin communities? Both have (in the cases of south Americans) violent homophobic tendencies

no you don't because it'd be politically incorrect to knock my culture but it's totally okay to bash 'em some southerns

[

Except that they're not a minority.

according to who? you? the US government? their so addled by PC and ultra sensitivity they wont dare classify a whole bunch of inbred white dudes as a minority!! for shame!!

simple reality is the south whether it be Cajun culture the blues that originated largely from the freed slaves..or yes the white people who hold fast to a culture that's partially older than the US..yes they are a minority

they should be afforded political protection and they get habitually attacked in such a massively vicious manor that they deserve some kind of classification and protection.

I mean I think it's unfair that I have the right to cause a massive legal clusterfuck for some poor bastard if he dares to call me a spic..but I have every right to call Southerns "inbred" like I just did..or like you did..calling them a bunch of racist backwards jackals

it really is absolute bullshit..

Yet back then, they felt no problems with persecuting far more bluntly and painfully a race of people for absolutely no moral reason whatsoever.

considering it was the then left wing part of the country that was going it? That even in Nixons time of all people he had to make a deal with the hyper racist democrats?

Come now SWST do you know that Robert E Lee was considered a wildly progressive mind? Because he considered slavery wrong freed his own slaves but still considered the black man to be subhuman and below the white man?

do you really wanna sit here and blabber on about "they were Democrat but conservative" at the time when your dear liberal progressives were advocating eugenics and genocide?

Now, most southerners aren't especially racist. But many are still homophobic, and many still hate atheists, agnostics, (to a lesser extent) muslims, etc.

I'm an atheist or at least the closest thing you can be without blindly denying the possibility of the existence of a creator (because I don't believe blind and absolute denial is scientific or healthy) and i absolutely hate most of my fellow Atheists who are nothing but loud mouth opinionated pseudo intellectuals with too little actual real world experience or intelligence..and too much self importance

I have no problem with Southern Christians defending themselves and fighting Atheist groups because of those active are full of idiotic fuck faced clowns who can't even see a deeper meaning..in a damn holiday and who's opinions are a little too full of "I, I , Me, Me"

conversely Muslim discrimination and homophobia is wrong will always be wrong and should be fought at all corners but I applaud certain Southern states who have taken an absolutist stance on Sharia law the line must be drawn somewhere..and lying down the degenerate and demented minority of zealots in the faith of Islam is not the way go

"According to them" makes it right now?

when your making a vicious and baseless attack on an entire culture for the sins of a few? your damn right

[Picard]

...that we all live interconnected lives. That my bad decisions cost him somewhere down the line.

Which is completely correct.

Humans created society beacouse of need of people to *help* each other, and nation states, with all their taxes and so on, are, in the end, ultimate expression of that need. And given that we *DO* live in layered, complex societies, where everyone has - or should have - his duty, *anyone's* decisions influence *everyone* else, in a more or less direct manner.

I'm going to give oversimplified and caricatured example of what could happen if everyone was to think about themselves first here...

Imagine that low-level CIA's agent has suffered a heart stroke. He is rushed to hospital - however, medical personnel did not get that month's pay and so refused to come to work. So he dies. But, he has discovered important fault in US' ICBM computer security, which everyone else is unavare of, and which some anarchist uses to launch ICBM's to Russia and China, who, along with North Korea, reply in a kind; and EU nuclear powers and India launch their ICBM's at China, Russia, and North Korea, while India and Pakistan also take a bit of time to make their own private nuclear exchange.

However, some missiles have faulty guidance system beacouse some corporation thought it could just cut expenses there. So, few nukes miss, and hit either another part of their home country or neutral states. Which then attack belligerents.

Have fun!

[sonofccn]

Which is completely correct.

It is your belief yes, mine however differs.

Humans created society beacouse of need of people to *help* each other

While "help" and mercy are nice human traits we did not form society merely to help each other out of the goodness of our hearts. Society merely distrubtes the workload, a farmer farms and then trades his goods to the wine maker who can focus on making wine as opposed to plowing a field etc, as well as provides societal order/security needed to perform the former. IE rule of law so guys can't just storm in and swipe the wine and wreck the joint.

and nation states, with all their taxes and so on, are, in the end, ultimate expression of that need.

We do not need to help others and that is not the goverment's job in any event. It is to maintain order and destroy obstacles both foriegn and domestic to citizens conducting the free exchange of goods and services.

And given that we *DO* live in layered, complex societies, where everyone has - or should have - his duty, *anyone's* decisions influence *everyone* else, in a more or less direct manner.

To such line of thinking Tyranny leads. After all if I switch what brand of pens I buy at the store the decrease in sales might make them cease carrying the former brand which results in the factory which produces them downsizing laying of Lord knows how many workers. The only way to prevent me, or anyone else, from ever negativly affecting someone else indirectly, and that is what we are talking about as opposed to me shooting someone which would be directly harming them, is to regiment and control every aspect of my life.

As well I don't like your use of the word "duty". I have a duty to my family, my friends and to my country. I do not have a "duty" to someone merely because we happen to both be human or were born in the same nation. Any act of mercy or compassion I perform is because I choose to act so. I am not obligated to do it nor can I condone one who chooses to abstain.

Imagine that low-level CIA's agent has suffered a heart stroke. He is rushed to hospital - however, medical personnel did not get that month's pay and so refused to come to work. So he dies.

Well I'd hope human mercy would compell the attending surgeon to fix his "heart stroke" but I can not demand a person work without compensation. I can beg, plead,wheedle and connive but I can't force him to work against his wishes.

But, he has discovered important fault in US' ICBM computer security, which everyone else is unavare of

Then he should have made notes and if he wasn't already dead I'd have him shot as a filthy traitor for betraying his country like he did. :)

But really I don't see the point of this, an extremely convoluted bit of fiction which somehow tries to link not wanting Socialized medicine to nuclear war. Also has a dig against corporations for reasons I can't fathom.