Starfleet Jedi

As I do it from time to time, I have just read a little bit on another board and have found the thread »Is it cheating?« The one, who has started that thread has posted the following:

• Okay, about two years ago, my mom told my dad she wanted a divorce (he's basically been working out of town since I was born and as far as I can remember has never been to either my sister or I's extracurricular activities, so except for finances, she's been a single parent in my eyes). So he's been dragging it out because he doesn't want one, now about a year ago she started hanging out with a friend from work and I think there's something romantic going on that started maybe two, three months ago.
  
  As I said my dad doesn't want a divorce, and he blames everyone but himself for it, my grandmother and aunt because they won't talk my mother out of it, he blames my moms best friend because he thinks she and my aunt convinved my mom to do it, and he dislikes this guy because he thinks he convinced her to divorce him so they could get together. This seems suspect to me since about every time he's been around her, I'm there, and the guy wouldn't even stay at our house past 9 PM until my dad said he could.
  
  Anyhow, every time my mom would come home from work or somewhere my parents would argue and my dad would call her a drunken whore (this would already be over if she'd have known she could've gotten the divorce to go through if she told them of this mental abuse) and she's been running to her mom's, this guy, or her best friends house because my dad's physically threatened me when we argued, and she's afraid he might hurt her or myself.
  
  Now assuming my mom and her friend from work ARE having a relationship, is this cheating or does my dad even have any right to complain since, as I feel, he's pretty much brought it on himself?

Up to now, he has gotten the following responses:

• Your mum effectively ended the relationship when she told your dad that she wanted the divorce, so unless she's decided to get back together with your father, then the marriage is only a legal distinction. So I'd say that it's not cheating.
• There is obviously no relationship here. While still technically married, that doesn't really constitute a relationship, as your mother wants a divorce. Thus, I don't consider it to be cheating, either.
• If your dad is never there, it's not much of a relationship to begin with and if your mom wants a divorce, that's the end of it. Your dad has no case.
• By the definition of Law: She's still married, it's cheating.
  
  By why you've said: They've been separated for years, she's got the right to find a new man.
  
  Your mom deserves some happiness, and I'm glad she's got such a good friend to lean on in times of trouble. Although, if your father's been roaming this much, I have to wonder how many times he's been unfaithful. Might look into that.
• Regardless of the legal situation, from a moral standpoint, cheating is lying. If she told your father that the relationship is over, then it's not cheating.

I neither want to debate the merits of the board, on which I have found that thread nor of its participants !!!

I want to know, what your opinion is? From a moral standpoint, is it cheating? What importance has the marriage and what justifies the breach of the marriage vows. Does the breach of such vows by one part justify another breach by the other part? Is the described behaviour a breach of the marriage vows? Should the woman has waited to the official divorce? And how is the legal situation from where you are coming?

In my view it's quite simple:

Two people are married. One wishes to end the marriage and states that desire plainly and without deceit.

At that point, in my view, the marriage is over. What the man is doing is clinging to a legal technicality to try and force her to stay in a relationship with him. Not only is that pretty darned horrible behaviour, it will also not change anything about the fact that in the eyes of her the relationship is over.

A relationship requires consent from both parties. This is clearly not the case here. Therefore there is no relationship. Marriage or no marriage.

And since there is no relationship, there cannot be cheating.

--

It would've been different if she didn't give him a chance to get the divorce in order or is she had been seeing the other guy before telling him she wanted a divorce etc.

The situation is complicated, and there are a few suspicious unknowns that I am intrigued by. For one, why the sudden change of heart on the wife's part? The situation seemed to be a constant since the birth of the poster, according to the poster, so we're talking many, many years here. Second, how is it that the husband was never around, yet was also around enough to be home calling her a drunken whore when she staggered in, et cetera?

That said, while I agree in principle with the idea that a paper marriage doesn't count on an ethical level, there are assorted caveats. Thus I do still find the wife's behavior inappropriate on several levels.

The husband rejected her request for mutual-consent divorce. I don't know about the law where the poster is, but around these parts a divorce doesn't exactly have to be by mutual consent. There is filing of papers and whatnot, and the other spouse does eventually have to sign said papers, but how this generally works is that the spouses are actively separated anyway, signed papers or not.

What happened here is that she said "I want a divorce", he said "no", and whatever she said next, her actions said "okay, dear (but I'll still get mine)".

Were she serious about the desire to leave him (and, as the poster noted, his finances), she would have taken the children (I presume) and left at the time, two years ago, or at any point since. This is especially true given the claimed fear she has about abuse of herself and the children. This would've made the situation an active separation.

Instead . . . whatever her stated feelings . . . she's chosen to remain in the marriage, yet also have her fun. It certainly isn't mental abuse for the husband to call her on it.

Arbour, you are fucking disgusting.

2046 wrote:Second, how is it that the husband was never around, yet was also around enough to be home calling her a drunken whore when she staggered in, et cetera?

Who said staggered in dipshit? For five foot nothing and 115lb she can hold her alcohol pretty damn well.

That would be counter to the guy calling her a drunken whore who did stumble in and after getting a drink of pepsi collapse in the kitchen floor and when asked about it said he thought he was at the couch. Oh and let's not forget that despite this, she went to the hospital all three times he passed out and had seizures from withdrawels and then four months ago bailed him out of jail on a DUI.

WolfRitter wrote:Arbour, you are fucking disgusting.

Why?
Because he reposted here something he saw on a public board and wanted to know what we thought?
I think your insult is unwarranted, but hey, that's just my opinion...

That being said, I say it's not cheating.
I can understand why she would want the divorce to be consentual, simply because if it's like anything my mother had to go through when my parents divorced (I live in Quebec), she's going to have to live through hell for the years it takes for the separation to be official.
Alimony's going to be a bi*** to collect, because they're still a couple.
You can't do anything about the collective assets because the other spouse still has a say in how they're disposed off, and all sorts of other pleasant dealings.

The best way to deal with a drinking father (at least mine wasn't violent) is to move out.
My mom decided my sister and I weren't going to pay for my father's mistakes, and she simply packed up and left.
She fought teeth and nails to get what was hers (and ours), restarted a new life and we're a lot happier since then.

To sum things up:
From what I read (and it might not be the whole picture), the guy's a bas**** and the women should just leave him (and take her son with her of course).
And no, she isn't cheating...

WolfRitter wrote:Arbour, you are fucking disgusting.

Care to you elaborate that claim.
I have read somewhere - and I'm not saying where and from whom - that question and the responses to it.

The persons in question self have given that informations in an open forum. I found that question and its responses intriguing and wanted to know what other people are thinking with the option to ask questions to them.

I could have given as well a link to that thread - but I wanted responses to that question that are not affected by feelings, some may have in regard to the board on which the question was asked first or to the person who has asked that question or responded to that question.

I have not disclosed intimate data but have only repeated what already was said. I have not violated the privacy of someone. After all, no name was disclosed and even if someone would find this page with google, this someone wouldn't know, from whom that problem is because it's described anonymously.

What is disgusting if I ask merely the same question, the person itself has asked too?

OOO wrote:

XXX wrote:Fucking disgusting pieces of moronic shit! I was informed by one of our esteemed community members of this, I'm not sure he wants to be known so he can say if he wants recognition for it.

I wouldn't worry about it too much; not everyone has a life outside of Star Trek vs Star Wars. You might even take it as a compliment that he's so interested in your personal life... :wink:

I'm neither interessted in General Schatten nor in his personal life. It's the topic that is interessting and this has nothing to do with »Star Trek vs Star Wars«.
But I think, it is denotative that some see even here a connection to »Star Trek vs Star Wars«. Does that mean, that I can't debate any topic here without some people thinking it has something to do with »Star Trek vs Star Wars«? I wonder if that is not already a kind of persecution complex.

Regardless, we all know who it is now, and this thread is going nowhere polite from what I can see. Courtesy dictates that I close this discussion unless WolfRitter asks to have it re-opened.