Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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StarWarsStarTrek
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Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:12 pm

Are there any Christians here? If there are, I would politely request a logical explanation as to how Christianity is a more rationally credible religion than the Flying Spaghetti Monster is. If I were to go theist, I am considering these two religions as the one to go for, and I need help as to which one is the true path to salvation. Thank you.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Admiral Breetai » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:20 am

I'm not a christian but I can safely say this thread this topic your attitude and your comparison are prejudicial and insulting oh and your intention is to troll and mock not actually listen to any religious mans viewpoint

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by mojo » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:49 am

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Are there any Christians here? If there are, I would politely request a logical explanation as to how Christianity is a more rationally credible religion than the Flying Spaghetti Monster is. If I were to go theist, I am considering these two religions as the one to go for, and I need help as to which one is the true path to salvation. Thank you.
i.. i just about broke my neck just now trying to give you the benefit of the doubt this post isn't a blatant troll. please help me understand!
is it possible that you've never heard the history of the flying spaghetti monster? that has to be it. i can see where you'd have a hard time choosing between christianity and the flying spaghetti monster if you'd never heard of it before. the problem is that, unbeknownst to you, the flying spaghetti monster was actually created as a thought experiment meant to show the strangeness of some christian beliefs. it is known to be non-existent as it's creators fessed up long long ago. therefore creating a thread asking for advice as to which religion to choose between the two would be extremely offensive to christians as your other given option is to join a religion which the entire internet knows is false. i know that YOU didn't know, but can you see where that would piss them off?

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Picard » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:21 am

And so SWST believes in Flying Spaghetti Dark Palpatine...

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by General Donner » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:40 pm

I'm Christian, and I don't mind too much. As far as the Internet goes, this is pretty restrained trolling of my faith. (Also pretty old and lame.) Any given thread on SDN or SBC will produce much more offensive stuff within ten posts.

To STVSSW: Mojo answered your original question best and most directly. My addition to that'd be, when I went about searching for my religion (I'm a Christian convert, didn't grow up as one) I didn't just go around asking random people what they thought. I instead sat down and read the Bible, the Koran, the Talmud, some Buddhist and Hindu stuff etc by myself, examining them solely on the basis of their own word. Christianity was the one I felt related to me and explained things. (Not the distance to the stars and stuff like that, but matters of humanity, thought, the "problem of evil" and other philosophy questions.)

If you're seriously searching for a faith to call your own (which I doubt, but you might one day be), I think you should do that. Sure, it'll take you a lot of time to chew your way through all those books, but for such an important and life changing decision it's worth it to be well informed.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:45 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Are there any Christians here? If there are, I would politely request a logical explanation as to how Christianity is a more rationally credible religion than the Flying Spaghetti Monster is. If I were to go theist, I am considering these two religions as the one to go for, and I need help as to which one is the true path to salvation. Thank you.
So you are going really to give up your Wongite faith for one with less obvious bullshit and moronic wank?.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:27 pm

General Donner wrote: Sure, it'll take you a lot of time to chew your way through all those books, but for such an important and life changing decision it's worth it to be well informed.
He can't even chew through 3 pages of replies when debating, so guess how big of a chance he'll read those there is...
Plus, he's already got Wong's opinion, so he doesn't need any other... :)

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:42 pm

mojo wrote:
StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Are there any Christians here? If there are, I would politely request a logical explanation as to how Christianity is a more rationally credible religion than the Flying Spaghetti Monster is. If I were to go theist, I am considering these two religions as the one to go for, and I need help as to which one is the true path to salvation. Thank you.
i.. i just about broke my neck just now trying to give you the benefit of the doubt this post isn't a blatant troll. please help me understand!
is it possible that you've never heard the history of the flying spaghetti monster? that has to be it. i can see where you'd have a hard time choosing between christianity and the flying spaghetti monster if you'd never heard of it before. the problem is that, unbeknownst to you, the flying spaghetti monster was actually created as a thought experiment meant to show the strangeness of some christian beliefs. it is known to be non-existent as it's creators fessed up long long ago. therefore creating a thread asking for advice as to which religion to choose between the two would be extremely offensive to christians as your other given option is to join a religion which the entire internet knows is false. i know that YOU didn't know, but can you see where that would piss them off?
You don't say?

So instead of being the asshole that has to explain the obvious, or the style over substance asshole that spends his entire post moaning about how offensive this thread is to Christians, why don't you actually answer the question? Why don't you explain to me how the Judeo Christian God has more evidence supporting it or is more logically plausible than the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:
You don't say?

So instead of being the asshole that has to explain the obvious, or the style over substance asshole that spends his entire post moaning about how offensive this thread is to Christians, why don't you actually answer the question? Why don't you explain to me how the Judeo Christian God has more evidence supporting it or is more logically plausible than the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
There is 100% scientific proof available that long strings of pasta in a sauce no matter how it is shaped (even monster shaped) CANNOT create a reality no matter how much it tries (even if it could try rather than just being non sentient oddly shaped strings of pasta flying around dripping on things and likely going floppy).

So while no positive proof of the creator of the universe exists in the form of a Judeo Christian God the position is ahead by default against the "pasta position" that has direct proof against it being capable of the feats required to qualify.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by General Donner » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:04 pm

Praeothmin wrote:He can't even chew through 3 pages of replies when debating, so guess how big of a chance he'll read those there is...
Plus, he's already got Wong's opinion, so he doesn't need any other... :)
It's a core teaching of Christianity that it's never too late for anyone to change. (Except apostates, to some, but that's somewhat complicated and a separate issue besides.) STVSSW most probably won't do any of the above, but I still feel I ought to tell him about my experience on the off chance that he might feel different in the future, and then can find my advice useful. To me, unlike fun and games like sci fi debating, this is actually quite serious stuff.

Nevertheless, I suspect you're right on both counts. It's really a bit odd how he emulates Wong's every opinion like this. Even if you agree with the guy's take on ST vs SW, you don't have to idolize every word he speaks. I sure know I didn't, even back when I was fully in the Wongian camp. And going by his anti-creationist pages, he knows even less about the Bible than about ST (and presents what he does know even more dishonestly).

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:19 pm

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:
There is 100% scientific proof available that long strings of pasta in a sauce no matter how it is shaped (even monster shaped) CANNOT create a reality no matter how much it tries (even if it could try rather than just being non sentient oddly shaped strings of pasta flying around dripping on things and likely going floppy).
You're assuming that:

1. The FSM is made out of ordinary spaghetti. Analogously to your argument, there is 100% scientific proof that no man, as God looks like in paintings, can create the universe either with just as much certainty as with spaghetti. God is mentioned as male, and said that He created man in His image.

2. The FSM is within space time/affected by space-time/science, but He isn't, just like how Christians use this to justify their God violating physics.
So while no positive proof of the creator of the universe exists in the form of a Judeo Christian God the position is ahead by default against the "pasta position" that has direct proof against it being capable of the feats required to qualify.
On the contrary, God is a sentient entity (are you going to contest that God is sentient or alive?), and there is 100% scientific proof that no sentient being could be "omnipresent", as it would take billions of years for it to think and perceive. It is also 100% scientifically proven that you cannot make a woman out of a man's rib.

But Christians use "God is above science" to explain that, so why cannot FMS supporters use "FMS is above science" to support theirs? Because you're using double standards, that's why.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:30 pm

General Donner wrote:
It's a core teaching of Christianity that it's never too late for anyone to change.
So why would God kill people in floods if they could still change?
(Except apostates, to some, but that's somewhat complicated and a separate issue besides.) STVSSW most probably won't do any of the above, but I still feel I ought to tell him about my experience on the off chance that he might feel different in the future, and then can find my advice useful. To me, unlike fun and games like sci fi debating, this is actually quite serious stuff.
You're right, it is. Which is why what you're going to say below is even more insulting.
Nevertheless, I suspect you're right on both counts. It's really a bit odd how he emulates Wong's every opinion like this. Even if you agree with the guy's take on ST vs SW, you don't have to idolize every word he speaks. I sure know I didn't, even back when I was fully in the Wongian camp. And going by his anti-creationist pages, he knows even less about the Bible than about ST (and presents what he does know even more dishonestly).
Let me get this straight: you think that I'm an atheist because of Wong? Congratulations Donner, you've just pushed me even further away from Christianity than I was before.

Hey, about knowing about the bible, why don't you explain to me:

1. A rational explanation for the hilarious Tower of Babel story. Tell me, why wasn't Apollo 11 shot down, and why would a bronze age society have the capability to reach the "heavens", and why would god feel threatened by such a tower?

2. A rational explanation as to why the Bible is the best explanation for...stuff compared to the literally infinite possible explanations for our existence. Explain why ANY of the religious works have to be true. Explain why God, if He/She/It/They exist(s), has to fit with ANY religious text rather than be totally different than we can possibly imagine.

3. Why God would code us to produce hormones that attract us to the opposite sex, only to turn around and blast us for feeling lust, a natural emotion that he programmed into us?

4. Why would God tell us to stone to death disobedient teenagers, girls who aren't virgins when they marry (but not boys), that homosexuality is a sin (despite not being a choice) and that eating shellfish is a sin?

5. Why would God have miscarriages and mental diseases that interfere with our free will, which God considers to be so important that he chose it over simply making us perfect and incapable of evil?

6. Why didn't God send down another prophet in the middle ages to go and tell people "hey guys! Stop burning witches and suppressing the Scientific advancement of humanity!

7. Why would you pray to God to give you a raise, a promotion, or that close parking space in the parking lot, only to turn around and claim that God doesn't have to solve all of our problems for us when talking about starving kids in Africa that don't have any job to get raised in, a promotion to get or any parking lots to park in? Convenient that all of God's miracles are coincidentally ones that can happen by coincidence.

8. Speaking of miracles, why did all of the very blatant miracles such as walking on water conveniently happen when there were no video cameras to authenticate the likely exaggerated over time tales of whatever gullible witnesses were there for the event?

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:53 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote: You're assuming that:

1. The FSM is made out of ordinary spaghetti.
It is your fucking OP pal so modify it as until you do it is just spaghetti.

Analogously to your argument, there is 100% scientific proof that no man, as God looks like in paintings, can create the universe either with just as much certainty as with spaghetti. God is mentioned as male, and said that He created man in His image.
Christianity does not say god is a man.
The FSM is within space time/affected by space-time/science, but He isn't, just like how Christians use this to justify their God violating physics.
Moving the goal posts are ya...serves you right for setting up a retarded thread without thinking about it or phrasing it properly.

On the contrary, God is a sentient entity (are you going to contest that God is sentient or alive?), and there is 100% scientific proof that no sentient being could be "omnipresent", as it would take billions of years for it to think and perceive.
Provide the proof then and what makes you think god did not evolve?.
It is also 100% scientifically proven that you cannot make a woman out of a man's rib.
A mans rib does not contain DNA now?, and cloning along with choosing a gender for the clone is scientifically impossible now?...

We are on the verge of being capable of doing what you claim is 100% impossible now pal.
But Christians use "God is above science" to explain that, so why cannot FMS supporters use "FMS is above science" to support theirs? Because you're using double standards, that's why.
I am not using double standards you just setup a retarded scenario that lacked any sense so you could fucking troll, because it was stupid you are now needing to add and adjust things in your scenario.

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:07 pm

Quick note here:
SWST wrote:God is mentioned as male, and said that He created man in His image.
Exactly, it says God created man in his image, never said anywhere God was part of mankind...
So your proof isn't one...

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Re: Christianity vs the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Post by General Donner » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:12 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:So why would God kill people in floods if they could still change?
Because they wouldn't? That you have the ability to do something doesn't mean you're actually going to. I'm certain I could move to China if I wanted to -- doesn't mean I will. And God is omniscient; He knows whether you're ever going to repent or not.

In that case, it appears no one was.
Let me get this straight: you think that I'm an atheist because of Wong? Congratulations Donner, you've just pushed me even further away from Christianity than I was before.
If that's so, then I'm sorry, and not just as an empty figure of speech. Though your arguments and opinions so far sound so extremely similar to what he's saying, it really is hard to think they're independently developed.
Hey, about knowing about the bible, why don't you explain to me:
1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 are questions I can't answer. I can't know why God would do this or that. I'm just human. I could offer my speculation, but that'd be quite lengthy and wouldn't be very useful to you from the looks of things. If you really want it, I can elaborate on that stuff later. But not tonight.

I'll answer 2 and 7 in brief, since those are questions about me, not God.
2. A rational explanation as to why the Bible is the best explanation for...stuff compared to the literally infinite possible explanations for our existence. Explain why ANY of the religious works have to be true. Explain why God, if He/She/It/They exist(s), has to fit with ANY religious text rather than be totally different than we can possibly imagine.
God isn't limited by humanity. I believe in the God of the Bible on its authority, because its teachings provide me with the best explanation I have seen for the facts of human existence.
7. Why would you pray to God to give you a raise, a promotion, or that close parking space in the parking lot, only to turn around and claim that God doesn't have to solve all of our problems for us when talking about starving kids in Africa that don't have any job to get raised in, a promotion to get or any parking lots to park in? Convenient that all of God's miracles are coincidentally ones that can happen by coincidence.
I don't pray for anything on my own behalf, except forgiveness for my sins and greater understanding of Scripture. For others, I pray for similar enlightenment for them.

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