EU, US, China, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: European Union, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-steal

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon May 23, 2011 10:55 pm

The EU is just catching up with the US when it comes to fascism, and is almost as decrepit economically wise. It's even more amusing as the "founding fathers" of the EU were largely following agendas gotten from US think tanks. It's even more clear in light of what is planned to happen between the EU and the USA in 2015 and beyond. It's also likely that the EU will be brought down via Greece, Portugal and else : Greece is backed up by Germany and France, the twin-engine of the EU. They own most of Greece's debt. If Greece falls, the German and French banks will fall as well, since owning worthless guarantees of interests and reimbursements, and the EU will soon come to a violent halt while the US bonds will recover their former "prestige".

What happened with Strauss Kahn recently could be a step in that direction, if he really got caught. The FMI was being too kind towards Greece and too EU-centric.

Are you afraid that a wind of US hatred would spread across Europe?
It would be particularly sadistic, since the EU countries really have done all that is possible to get there.

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Re: European Union, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-steal

Post by Picard » Tue May 24, 2011 7:39 am

The EU is just catching up with the US when it comes to fascism
Yes, I know. EU and US are built around precisely same economic model, and almost same political model, but US has few decades more of experience in it.
and the EU will soon come to a violent halt while the US bonds will recover their former "prestige".
But US will then have to put up with China, which has 4 times larger population and owns most of US debt.
Are you afraid that a wind of US hatred would spread across Europe?
No, but I hope something will happen. I think that implementation of socialistic democracy in place of current corporatism would be right thing to do, in both US and EU. But ruling capitalistic elite will never accept such thing. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Tue May 24, 2011 8:05 am

I edited original post to include United States, since US was, and is, role model European fascism is being developed and implemented after.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:40 pm

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/am ... s-leaders/

"Mr Delors told colleagues that any crisis would be a “beneficial crisis”, allowing the EU to break down resistance to fiscal federalism, and to accumulate fresh power. The purpose of EMU was political, not economic, so the objections of economists could happily be disregarded. Once the currency was in existence, EU states would have give up national sovereignty to make it work over time. It would lead ineluctably to the Monnet dream of a fully-fledged EU state. Bring the crisis on."

http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacentre/ ... rticle=123

http://www.democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_myths.html

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Lucky » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:05 am

What does any of the above have to do with stealth technologies, and fighter jets? The name of the thread is very misleading.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:54 pm

Lucky wrote:What does any of the above have to do with stealth technologies, and fighter jets? The name of the thread is very misleading.
Name of thread is "EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth". It has to do with first two topics of thread.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:41 pm

I suppose that Pic is worried about the EU going down and, for some reason, deciding that it may be a good thing to threaten some large country militarily, is that it?
I don't buy it, especially considering who rules the EU and how the disgruntled people have literally very democratic leverage left.

Still, this disaster can only happen with an economical crisis. A think tank made an interesting analysis of the ECB's current financial status.

€444bn exposure to weak eurozone economies risks bankrupting the European Central Bank

Although the ECB can't beat the FED on the scam that's going on, it may fall first.

28 June 2011 - Consolidated financial statement of the Eurosystem as at 24 June 2011:

12. Capital and reserves : 81,479 M€
Total liabilities : 1,972,174 M€

Factor? About 172.

ROFLLOLZ

Meanwhile, while Portugal's "note" keeps going down, thanks to Moody's (that is, thanks to what amounts to a handful blokes working at the office and bringing entire countries down with a mere click on a PDA), the Bank of Greece shows to have small reserves (no surprise) and a huge debt as well.

The thing is, as we know how it works, once Greece will be declare bankruptcy, German and French banks, plus the rest that represent minor portions (Italian banks, etc.) will bite the dust.
And as usual, banks will be saved, while the people will be drained.

Now, it is more than obvious that on either sides of the ocean, the citizens are not responsible of this, and can't do anything about that. All they'll know is more unemployment, more strife and poverty.
Under such duress, even more disgusting freedom-limiting laws will be passed (supposedly to protect the countries from their own people, go figure).

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:34 pm

I suppose that Pic is worried about the EU going down and, for some reason, deciding that it may be a good thing to threaten some large country militarily, is that it?
In my book, EU falling apart would be birthday come early. As for EU threatening someone militarily... that would be quite realistic possibility - if British, French and German imperialists could decide on common course of action as easily as USA ones.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:36 pm

Picard wrote:
I suppose that Pic is worried about the EU going down and, for some reason, deciding that it may be a good thing to threaten some large country militarily, is that it?
In my book, EU falling apart would be birthday come early. As for EU threatening someone militarily... that would be quite realistic possibility - if British, French and German imperialists could decide on common course of action as easily as USA ones.
It would require a serious change of politics. All politicians to this day, especially the ugly French dwarf and the German leaders, owe their place to the US. Well, I'd say that the whole of Germany owes its current economical place to the US and the fact that other EU countries are still waiting for the money Germany owes them since WWII.
EU going against the US is most unlikely.
It's far easier to keep pushing against Middle East, threaten Russia (with missiles placed at the border like it happened) and keep harassing China in a way or another.
However, if the US and the EU keep going down, some groups of nations will rise, like South America, that is clearly taking more and more its distances from the US, despite all the actions the US has taken and its continuous subversive operations of destabilization down there.
India might be a problem as well. Many are afraid of China, but this country has a lot of potential "bubbles" just asking to rise and pop even more violently than what the occidental realm has experienced.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:43 pm

I agree that Eu vs US is unlikely. But EU & US vs someone else is quite likely. And while US is currently only superpower in world, Russia, China, India and Brasil have potential to become that in next century, and EU is hoping for that too.

As for US and China, I'm a bit confused - US is pressing China to spend more and more money on weapons, and China is doing same to US. Who do you think is in better position? (China might be in better position since US is basically state made from corporations - government is not able to do anything without private companies, and companies use government as their private SOS bank - when company screws up, state fixes it. When company does not screw up, it takes all profit for itself. And situation is similar over most of Western world, including my own country. I'm not sure how it functions in Scandinavia, thought. On the other hand, China has crapload of its own problems, most of which it created itself - water poisoning, population literally poisoned by smog, coal dust and similar, air pollution that is on increase - China will probably overtake US as biggest air polluter in world, if it did not do so already - and so on - and will probably have to devote lots of money to solve them in near future).

Just look at this:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02 ... lution.php
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/12 ... _cost2.php
http://env-ngo.wikispaces.com/Photospsp1
http://morrisonworldnews.com/?p=36717

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:32 pm

Picard is so amusingly anti corporation it's funny its a good thing we're on the same forum and thus can balance each other out *is in favor of an eventual global corporate republic*

that being said it's specifically because of private companies..and the lucky tech edge we have on them for the time being that will give the US good lead on that I mean the USSR had all their resources given over the government and while A bombs aside they did breach space first..they fell by the way side compared to Japan and America of the eighties I think the US and the EU (though the UK and France and iirc Germany too)are gonna maintain a clear edge with the US leading it militarily globally at least for the foreseeable future

I'm pretty sure as it stands now and for the immediate future any conflict between anything else and a US not divided politically or socially in terms of war is gonna result in an absolute stomp

EU has the problem of the big three basically feeding every one else in the EU and allot of public incentive against arming

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:31 pm

Ask people in US how they feel about it. Besides, I have nothing against Scandinavia-style system, where corporations are regulated by state. As for "lucky tech edge" you are referring to, it is melting away rapidly. Especially when it comes to China. And it is mostly inherited from Cold War era, back when US was socialistic state. Meanwhile, corporations often use majority of money they get on bribing officials to allow them to continue running rampant with no regard for rules and regulations, paying managers, using state bank to cover their own financial minuses, and not on actual research. Also, US was actually socialist state until fall of USSR, as were West-Europe economies. This is different era.
in an absolute stomp
Only countries US has attacked so far were Middle-East countries with outdated and stripped-down equipment. Besides, it has nothing to do with corporations - actually US Armed Forces were until 2001 attacks one of last bastions of actual democracy against corporatism (although military does not function with "democratic" chain-of-command, it managed to repel corporations trying to take over its duties, although not anymore. Day before attack on Pentagon, Rumsfeld called Pentagon employees "enemies of the state" because they did not want to accept his grand plans for privatization of US military). It has more to do with this:

http://armscontrolcenter.org/policy/sec ... st_global/
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of- ... dgets-usa/
http://www.humanitycampaign.org/policy- ... ing-facts/
EU has the problem of the big three basically feeding every one else in the EU
Because wild privatization destroyed economy of most of East Europe. And besides, these "big three" countries were also socialistic before fall of communism, to prevent people from running to east.

EDIT: When compared, I'd say that US military (most-privatized military in world) is actually among, if not the, least cost effective militaries of the world.

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Admiral Breetai » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:37 pm

Picard wrote:Ask people in US how they feel about it.
LOL I live in the US there's a great deal of Libertarians and anarcho capitalists among the young..just as many as their are leftists

Picard wrote:Besides, I have nothing against Scandinavia-style system, where corporations are regulated by state. As for "lucky tech edge" you are referring to, it is melting away rapidly. Especially when it comes to China. And it is mostly inherited from Cold War era, back when US was socialistic state. Meanwhile, corporations often use majority of money they get on bribing officials to allow them to continue running rampant with no regard for rules and regulations, paying managers, using state bank to cover their own financial minuses, and not on actual research. Also, US was actually socialist state until fall of USSR, as were West-Europe economies. This is different era.
a socialist America? yeah no..but as far as the US issues with corruption that's exclusively the politicians and the government's fault..absolute power corrupts and nothings more dangerous then the state

Picard wrote: Only countries US has attacked so far were Middle-East countries with outdated and stripped-down equipment. Besides, it has nothing to do with corporations - actually US Armed Forces were until 2001 attacks one of last bastions of actual democracy against corporatism (although military does not function with "democratic" chain-of-command, it managed to repel corporations trying to take over its duties, although not anymore. Day before attack on Pentagon, Rumsfeld called Pentagon employees "enemies of the state" because they did not want to accept his grand plans for privatization of US military). It has more to do with this:
I see nothing wrong with privatizing the US military at all providing there are very strict rules in place to make sure no one commits treason..or other wise sells out or sells us shitty merchandise or cuts corners..

in fact I'd trust a private commander in chief more then a public one if he's unpopular enough ousting is a simple matter of threatening to take away the money...where as..you gotta wait years to get rid of the other one

the public sacking a private general by threatening to sell their shares and invest in another private army?

Picard wrote: Because wild privatization destroyed economy of most of East Europe. And besides, these "big three" countries were also socialistic before fall of communism, to prevent people from running to east.
and you think it's totally right and fair to force Germany The UK and France to bail all those nations out? pro tip it's not it's completely wrong and it could eventually force them to leave the EU
Picard wrote: EDIT: When compared, I'd say that US military (most-privatized military in world) is actually among, if not the, least cost effective militaries of the world.
and yet it's the most powerful and has shown time and time again through out history in almost every major global spanning conflict it's participated in..minus one or two (in the eighteen hundreds)..it's ability to whoop ass

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Re: EU, US, F-22, Eurofighter Typhoon and anti-stealth

Post by Picard » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:44 am

Main problem with private corporations is that you MUST keep tabs on them or they'll go AWOL at first opportunity they get. And US is no longer doing it, while Europe seems to be going that way.
LOL I live in the US there's a great deal of Libertarians and anarcho capitalists among the young..just as many as their are leftists
You capitalist?
a socialist America? yeah no..
It did exist. Google "New Deal" for its beginnings.
but as far as the US issues with corruption that's exclusively the politicians and the government's fault..absolute power corrupts and nothings more dangerous then the state
US government no longer exists except in name. They do what corporations say they have to do.
I see nothing wrong with privatizing the US military at all providing there are very strict rules in place to make sure no one commits treason..or other wise sells out or sells us shitty merchandise or cuts corners..
There are no rules, that is problem... rebellion in Iraq has to do with private corporations taking over parts of US military as much as it has to do with occupation itself... face it, military has morale. Corporations have none. They are only interested in money... and as long as situation with corporations remains as it is, there will be NO peace in Middle East.
in fact I'd trust a private commander in chief more then a public one if he's unpopular enough ousting is a simple matter of threatening to take away the money...where as..you gotta wait years to get rid of the other one
And therein lies a problem. Commanders should not be given position based on popularity, but rather based on competence.
and you think it's totally right and fair to force Germany The UK and France to bail all those nations out? pro tip it's not it's completely wrong and it could eventually force them to leave the EU
Friedmanites had as much to do with economic fall of Eastern Europe as much as communism, if not more. And when your neighbor is in trouble, you help him, else you'll find yourself in the same situation.
and yet it's the most powerful and has shown time and time again through out history in almost every major global spanning conflict it's participated in..minus one or two (in the eighteen hundreds)..it's ability to whoop ass
Only reason it is still powerful (against underequipped Middle East militaries, that is - all big wars it fought were BEFORE wild privatization, and therefore cannot be used as measure of current US military) is beacouse it uses up 50% of total world military expenditure, while being 2nd or 3rd largest by manpower. But in terms of efficiency, WW2 US military probably outstripped current one by big margin, when you account for technological progress etc.

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