Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

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2046
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Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by 2046 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:23 am

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html

Hackers have obtained e-mails and other documents showing that prominent supporters of the manmade global warming hypothesis in the scientific community are engaged in a concerted effort to shut opponents out of the scientific literature, with statements such as how they "will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" Also noteworthy are details of efforts to hide and delete pertinent information (e.g. e-mails, research station information, et cetera) to keep it out of the hands of those (in or out of the scientific community) who do not adhere to man-made warming claims.

To borrow from Craig Ferguson . . . Remind you of anyone?

Some of the more damning things here.

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:00 am

Heh, reminded me of this from Penn & Teller's Bullshit, and this.
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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:38 am

No index file?

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by 2046 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:19 am

What?

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:46 am

Huh? Say what?
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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:52 pm


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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by 2046 » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:26 pm

Nice. Didn't catch that. Extra points for confounding the original l33t h4x0r. ;)

Addiitional commentary by yours truly:

http://averagefreethinkingamerican.blog ... s-not.html

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by The Dude » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:28 am

What this has to do with SDN is really beyond my ability to understand, though it did get me to click the thread, so "kudos."

Even if global warming turns out to be a scam, I really don't see why we should pump tonnes of shit into the atmosphere or the environment in general. Most of the arguments I see on the interweb on Global Warming always seem to boil down to; "well if it's false, then lets pollute the hell out of it."

Yeah, Mexico City is a great example of where that leads. And, yeah I'm aware of the peculiars of the geography there but it's still a good example of my point.

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by 2046 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:28 am

You must go to weird places. I've seen people note in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek manner that CO2 is good for plants, but nobody seriously thinks smog is cool.

If anything, the AGW myth is hurting both science in general (see my old post here) and environmental concerns in particular. Every step forward they made by faking an emergency will result in two steps back.

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by 2046 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:40 am

The Dude wrote:What this has to do with SDN is really beyond my ability to understand, though it did get me to click the thread, so "kudos."
A short list, in no particular order:

- Attempting to shut out their opponents
- Declaring victory before the war's begun
- Ignoring and/or massaging evidence
- Cherry-picking source material based on what will lead to a particular conclusion
- Pondering initiating violence against adversaries
- Pretending publication equals truth (ICS)
- Leaving themselves open to having private communications publicized (hat tip to Mr. O)
- Generally being wrong-headed yet pompous asses.

. . . and so on. I could go into more detail but that should suffice for the moment.

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by The Dude » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:07 am

2046 wrote:
The Dude wrote:What this has to do with SDN is really beyond my ability to understand, though it did get me to click the thread, so "kudos."
A short list, in no particular order:

- Attempting to shut out their opponents
- Declaring victory before the war's begun
- Ignoring and/or massaging evidence
- Cherry-picking source material based on what will lead to a particular conclusion
- Pondering initiating violence against adversaries
- Pretending publication equals truth (ICS)
- Leaving themselves open to having private communications publicized (hat tip to Mr. O)
- Generally being wrong-headed yet pompous asses.

. . . and so on. I could go into more detail but that should suffice for the moment.
Yeah but there's quite the difference in scale here isn't there? SDN may have attempted all that but they are only one site, and a smallish one at that. Anyone who wanted to could look elsewhere, where as if any of this GW is true, they may actually have succeeded.

BTW, there is a simple word for all this. It's called "dishonest", I get that you have an axe to grind with SDN and Mike in particular but come on, these aren't even in the same league.
- Pondering initiating violence against adversaries
What? Is this that fanfic thing Wayne wrote years back where you got killed or something?

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:13 am

2046 wrote: - Leaving themselves open to having private communications publicized (hat tip to Mr. O)
- Generally being wrong-headed yet pompous asses.

Mr. O? Wouldn't the better analogy, if there is one, is the TrollKingdom.com hacking from several years ago that exposed the dirty inner secrets of SDN's moderator's forum?
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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:47 am

The Dude wrote: Yeah but there's quite the difference in scale here isn't there? SDN may have attempted all that but they are only one site, and a smallish one at that. Anyone who wanted to could look elsewhere, where as if any of this GW is true, they may actually have succeeded.
Now I would agree with you that SDN is not much of anything near as important in the grand scheme of things. But it could be argued that this is a matter of principle not simply a matter of scale. Both organizations in question here are ones that claim to uphold science, which because of that, their conclusions are the only ones possible, and all others are based on pseudo-science and fakery. And yet, both organizations are now being shown up as the ones who have perpertrated the scam, and now may marginalize themselves. Sadly, the global warming proponents have already done their damage, and even if the public sees them for the sham they are, it may have far more drastic long-range consequences in the form of the average person being more mistrustful of ever of scientists and science in general.
-Mike

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by 2046 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:25 am

Couldn't have responded to the scale point better myself. (Literally!)

Indeed, my reference to SDN tactics was not simply an effort to grind some axe or other, but to make the point of how alarming the East Anglia behavior was. While everyone knows working scientists are human beings with all the foibles that implies, few would have suspected the depths to which these guys would go. At the end of the day, we expect our scientists to be scientists, not partisan hacks doing a hatchet job on the whole scientific enterprise. That's where the axe-grinding was going on.
Mike DiCenso wrote:Mr. O? Wouldn't the better analogy, if there is one, is the TrollKingdom.com hacking from several years ago that exposed the dirty inner secrets of SDN's moderator's forum?
Possibly, though the actual source is unclear as yet. Rumor has it the BBC was offered the data up to a month before it appeared, yet the data as shown has information up to just a couple of weeks ago (implying updates). Some have theorized this was merely a download of a file available on a poorly-protected server, others suggest it was an inside job. The only known hacking was in regards to the attempt to post the data at RealClimate, the AGW alarmist mouthpiece website.

In any case, though, Mr. O's joke so amused me I had to compliment it again, hence the mention. :-)

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Re: Global Warming Supported Via SDN Tactics

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:22 pm

2046 wrote:At the end of the day, we expect our scientists to be scientists, not partisan hacks doing a hatchet job on the whole scientific enterprise.
And that's why it's such a big deal when anything like this happens.

I think this is a nice exhibition of how people working on something for a long time will tend to get emotionally invested in their position. It's true in the VS debate, it's true for scientists. And sometimes - not often, but sometimes - scientists overstate their case to try to make a bigger splash with their paper. The scientific community is larger and more detached than the VS debate community, and has generally higher standards. It's much more difficult to shut people up, too. They tend to have tenure or are very lucratively employed by someone happy with their work.

In the big picture, though, the case for man-made global warming is strong, and it's been getting stronger every year as more data becomes available. We know exactly how CO2 can trap additional heat, from how it interacts with different frequencies of light. We know exactly where extra CO2 is coming from. We don't know where it's all going - there are some unexplained (and irregular-seeming) absorption mechanisms that make things difficult to model. We also know that ocean pH is shifting, which, as I mentioned previously, I find more alarming than temperature shifts.

I recommend reading RealClimate's take on it if you would like to have a balanced view after the WSJ article (and RealClimate has actually posted a link to what seems to be the e-mails in question, no "hack" required), but the fact of the matter is that the facts themselves remain independent of the techniques used to argue for them.

The case for evolution is remarkably strong regardless of Wong employing SDN tactics on his "Creation Theory" website. This is quite similar to that.

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