An interesting website about vaccinations

[Mr. Oragahn]

Vaccination Debate.
An example of interesting historical facts about major vaccines, here, and an equally daring assortment of articles there, including topics such as the germ theory and its faults.
Is it true? I don't know, but at least the educated mind is better served with an objective and balanced opposition of ideas, instead of a sadistic lynching of less popular ideas by dogmatic forces.

[sonofccn]

So.... am I correct in assuming you are or at least are considering becoming against vaccinations?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Not yet, but now I'm asking what's written on the box, and if I don't like what's on it, then yes, I refuse it.

[The Dude]

You have kids Mr. O?

[Mr. Oragahn]

What is the real question?

[The Dude]

What is the real question?

I'm wondering what you plan to do if you opt not to have them vaccinated and they go to start school.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Is there anything to fear about the school?

[The Dude]

Is there anything to fear about the school?

Yeah, your kids won't be allowed to attend unless they are vaccinated. Unless you wish to claim a religious exemption.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Let's find other parents and hire a teacher for private schooling of 5-10 kids, then.
That's something I've been considering for a while, and if the government really becomes too anal retentive, that's the way to go.

I for one refuse the idea that the school can reject education for your kids if they have not been vaccinated. It's a logic that is just as good as asking you if you've been vaccinated from the moment you step out of your house.
Take the bus? Did you get your shot?
Go to the supermarket? Ok, but did you get your jab, sir?
Both should be independent, and no one should force you disclose part of your own medical file, because that's private matter entirely.
Not to say that, if I'm not wrong, under the provisions of the Nuremberg court, no one, not even the school, has the right to force you to get a shot, and access to school is, iirc, a human right.

[The Dude]

I think you'll find that your rights end when your actions harm or have the potential to harm another being.

[Praeothmin]

Well, Mr. O has a point.
If we can block school access to kids who weren't vaccinated, then why allow them on the bus, or in any other "public" places?
They should also be expelled, or kept from attending these other places, since, by your logic, them not having been vaccinated means they are a danger to others.

I've never taken the flu vaccine, and have been as ill as I've ever been in my life, i.e., not much.
I've friends who were vaccinated against the flu, and they were as ill as ever, so the vaccine apparently didn't work for them.
Vaccines aren't all that they are cranked up to be in certain cases.
The flu, for example, has so many different strains, that a vaccine against one is useless against other strains, so why bother in this case?

More importantly, why should kids be forced to have vaccines, and why should they be blocked from attending school if they weren't vaccinated?

[The Dude]

Well, Mr. O has a point.
If we can block school access to kids who weren't vaccinated, then why allow them on the bus, or in any other "public" places?
They should also be expelled, or kept from attending these other places, since, by your logic, them not having been vaccinated means they are a danger to others.

I've never taken the flu vaccine, and have been as ill as I've ever been in my life, i.e., not much.
I've friends who were vaccinated against the flu, and they were as ill as ever, so the vaccine apparently didn't work for them.
Vaccines aren't all that they are cranked up to be in certain cases.
The flu, for example, has so many different strains, that a vaccine against one is useless against other strains, so why bother in this case?

More importantly, why should kids be forced to have vaccines, and why should they be blocked from attending school if they weren't vaccinated?

It's quite simple, vaccinations work by creating a "herd immunity". Above a certain % of the population, the disease ceases to be a factor, which is why things like smallpox, polio, hooping cough and other nasties have largely been eradicated. By choosing not to vaccinate your children you lower the % of the population that has been vaccinated and increase the chances of the disease making a comeback.

The reason why you are not allowed to send you kids to school without vaccinations is because the diseases they are vaccinated against are either crippling for children or deadly. And while the Flu has the potential to kill it is not normally life threatening. A kid who gets polio however would be physically disabled for life, a kid who gets meningitis could quite possibly die.

The Flu is also a very bad example to pick for "vaccines might not work". The Flu vaccine put out every year is for the strain that is figured to be most common, so while you may not get that strain, you can still get a different strain.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Which would require another vaccine, right.

Now, that's the theory. I say theory because, until recently -and I suppose this applies to lots of people starting to read alternative sources- we may hold a particularly rose tinted view on vaccines.

For example, you speak of polio, smallpox and whooping cough.

The website has the following references:

With reference to Smallpox;

"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and
ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end."
Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)

"Vaccination does not protect, it actually renders its subjects more
susceptible by depressing vital power and diminishing natural resistance, and millions of people have died of smallpox which they contracted after being vaccinated."
Dr J.W. Hodge (The Vaccination Superstition)

"It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus - and it is usually from the pustule end of the dead smallpox victim … it is unthinkable that you can inject that into a little child and in any way improve its health. What is true of vaccination is exactly as true of all forms of serum immunisation, if we could by any means build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we can't do it."
Dr William Howard Hay (lecture to Medical Freedom Society, June 25th 1937)

"Immunisation against smallpox is more hazardous than the disease itself."
Professor Ari Zuckerman, World Health Organisation

These are doctors, but still, I'd have to question their claims. The vaccine is supposed to introduce an inactive stem of the virus you're taking a jab against.

Needless to say, by the way, that this is another wholly different topic, dissociated from the presence of disputable adjuvants.

It continues:

With reference to Whooping Cough;

"There is no doubt in my mind that in the UK alone some hundreds, if not thousands of well infants have suffered irreparable brain damage needlessly and that their lives and those of their parents have been wrecked in consequence."
Professor Gordon Stewart, University of Glasgow (Here's Health, March 1980)

"My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that the
nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the US each year are related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given to children. The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is the most likely villain , but it could also be one or more of the others."
Dr R Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

"The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine...it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage.."
Dr Archie Kalokerinos, Author and Vaccine Researcher (Natural Health Convention, Stanwell Tops, NSW, Australia 1987)

With reference to Polio;

"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country."
Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

"No batch of vaccine can be proved to be safe before it is given to
children"
Surgeon General Leonard Scheele (AMA Convention 1955, USA)

"Live virus vaccines against influenza and paralytic polio, for example, may in each instance cause the disease it is intended to prevent..."
Dr Jonas Salk, developer of first polio vaccine (Science 4/4/77 Abstracts)

You know, it's very hard for the average man, to question what we've been told what, day after day, was told to be a miracle of modern times and boosting our living.

Admitedly, we have never really tried to verify those claims. Why, if to be mocked anyway, and passing as someone as backward as a Mormon?

Going back to the smallpox references, here are more:

- In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. (The Hadwen Documents)

Considering that vaccines are generally injected as a preemptive measure, the results are rather poor. Of course, we don't know what happened to those who were not vaccinated, in England, although the percentage, for this age range, would be of 2%, that is, absolutely low. Still, it would be interesting to know about how many died from those who didn't take the shot.
There is no necessary link between the vaccine and the burst of deaths. It could just be that smallpox came, many people were vaccinated, but the vaccine had limited results. Being positive, we could always say that the vaccines managed to protect the others. At least that's also the theory, since it's hard to verify this now, and requites a level of trust that's relatively high.

Perhaps reading the documents in full would help understanding the problem, if there is any.

Shall we continue? Let's see what we can find about polio.

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)

- In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. (Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

- In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts")

- In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

These incidents and claims are really hurting my suspension of disbelief, because to call some of them coincidences feels like trying to have faith into something I don't like.
All I can say is stay sharp, and read. It's possible half of the stuff about is taken out of context or bullcrap as well, but at least it had me looking for information and being cautious with the consensus about vaccines.

Homefirst, perhaps? And I'm not a religious type of guy, you know. But what's good, I take.