Tatooine-Geonosis speed revisted

[Kane Starkiller]

No, the only one which is not conclusive is building 2. The light reflection on 3 is the same, and building 1 and 4 have the exact same shape and window pattern.

I don't see any exact appearance between those two window patterns. You can say they are similar but that is not conclusive. The reflection on the building 3 is not a reflection but it's own searchlights and if you watch the scene you'll notice that several buildings have them.
Building 4 could just as easily be this:

Except this one is to the right of the office.
Here is a candidate for building 1:

To the left behind the chair.


You need to understand that theory that these buildings being the same is critical for the theory that a full day passed and thus it needs to be proven pretty reliably. It is not impossible that those indeed are the same buildings but as it stands no serious evidence exists.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Actually, I have been able to make all the stuff fit altogether properly.

1. They are the same buildings. Watch, again, the windows and their illumination. They are exactly aligned the same way.

2. You are right, the illumination on the facades of certain buildings is due to illumination.

3. As we can see on the shot from the senate corridor, all the lights' intensities are lower than in the other shots, even for the windows or spotlights, which doesn't make sense, especially if the senate's corridor shot is supposed to be taken at a time when it's darker outside. If anything, the lights would be even brighter, by the sheer virtue of lighting contrast.
Thus, the only explanation as to why the lighting appears dimmer in the corridor shot, is because the windows are tinted.

Therefore, we can know that Palpatine's senatorial office is in the senate's building.
Assuming the affairs were a bit rushed due to the urgency of suddenly learning about the CIS's army, the already scheduled and imminent senate session was used to bring the problem as the main topic, and immediately give Palpatine the full powers.

So everything occured during the same dawn.

Now, as I said, it doesn't give any information about when Anakin and Padmé arrived on Geonosis. It could be anything from a few minutes to many hours.

[2046]

No, the fact that they are the same buildings is not critical. I'm not even sure it is mentioned on the page itself.

It is, however, helpful, and quite delightful to watch you try to deny it.

Anywho, I just wanted to ask . . . were you the same guy who argued about the same thing at TrekBBS once? One of you SDN'ers was trying to claim that the night shot of the Senate wasn't at night at all because of the blue of the moonlit sky. The guy was arguing that the night sky must be pitch black, therefore that was a day shot.

You haven't brought that up so I guessed it wasn't you, but then your argument now is very similar in logical rigor so I thought it best to inquire.

[Kane Starkiller]

No, the fact that they are the same buildings is not critical. I'm not even sure it is mentioned on the page itself.

It is, however, helpful, and quite delightful to watch you try to deny it.

Yes almost as delightful to watch you pretend you actually provided any evidence we are dealing with the same buildings. I already pointed out several buildings whose shape easily corresponds to the ones from the corridor.

Anywho, I just wanted to ask . . . were you the same guy who argued about the same thing at TrekBBS once? One of you SDN'ers was trying to claim that the night shot of the Senate wasn't at night at all because of the blue of the moonlit sky. The guy was arguing that the night sky must be pitch black, therefore that was a day shot.

The purple tinge can be seen on the right unless you are blind. And camera doesn't point towards the east so the glow is much smaller. But then again you're just going to evade my points again so I guess I shouldn't bother.

[2046]

So everything occured during the same dawn.

No, it most certainly did not. You cannot have a dark sky on the one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other, and you cannot claim that buildings which are not as brightly lit in the lesser twilight are therefore viewed through tinting. There is little to no significant difference in, for instance, the building self-illuminated in yellow.

Since some of you evidently have not ventured outside in a long while, please allow me to refresh your memories:

Calgary in Twilight (Panorama):
http://pic.templetons.com/brad/pano/mid ... ilight.jpg

Similar:
http://www.regionalrecycling.ca/photos/ ... ames-2.jpg

Compare to:

very shortly after sunset

after the sun went down

"beauty of twilight after sunset"
http://members.aol.com/Prisoner6birkin/ ... ruwa-s.jpg

[2046]

But then again you're just going to evade my points again so I guess I shouldn't bother.

I cannot evade what does not exist.

[Mr. Oragahn]

So everything occured during the same dawn.

No, it most certainly did not. You cannot have a dark sky on the one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other, and you cannot claim that buildings which are not as brightly lit in the lesser twilight are therefore viewed through tinting. There is little to no significant difference in, for instance, the building self-illuminated in yellow.

For the first claim, please explain what you're trying to tell me in details, I fail to understand your point. I don't see where I claimed there was a dark sky on any side.
This image precisely shows that there's the moonlight on one side, and the pink sunrise tint on the other, but I don't see how that's relevant, in the sense that you seem to say it can't happen. Since obviously that would be akin to say that what's on screen didn't happen, I fail to see what you mean.
Above all, the way it's lit on the other side (sunset side) hardly matters.

As for the second point, what do you mean by "lesser twilight"? And what is that building self illuminated in yellow?
The illumination of the windows and the spotlights' intensities show that when seen through the corridor's windows, they're slightly darker.

Besides, Coruscant is a city which is ought to generate a significant amount of light pollution, which can elude, to some extent, the determination of the local time.

[2046]

So everything occured during the same dawn.

No, it most certainly did not. You cannot have a dark sky on the one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other, and you cannot claim that buildings which are not as brightly lit in the lesser twilight are therefore viewed through tinting. There is little to no significant difference in, for instance, the building self-illuminated in yellow.

For the first claim, please explain what you're trying to tell me in details, I fail to understand your point. I don't see where I claimed there was a dark sky on any side.

You are claiming equal brightness between the office shots and the out-the-Senate-window shot, while simultaneously we have the Senate exterior shot. Ergo, you are claiming we can have a dark sky on one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other.

This image precisely shows that there's the moonlight on one side, and the pink sunrise tint on the other

Scarce tinting . . . hardly what I described or what we can see.

More later.

[Narsil]

I know this seems like a bit of a foolish thing to point out, but according to the Episode 3 novelisation there are supposed to be giant orbital mirrors over Coruscant. It doesn't say how many, but it does mention them; this does make judging anything based on the shadows and reflections on the planet itself damn near impossible.

[Kane Starkiller]

No, it most certainly did not. You cannot have a dark sky on the one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other,

See you say something like this and then post images that completely destroy your point:
First is your Calgary twilight pic:
http://pic.templetons.com/brad/pano/mid ... ilight.jpg
Here I cut and pasted the extreme right and extreme left of the image:

Can't have a dark sky on one side and bright sky with reddish glow visible eh Darkstar?
And this is me using your own image. I'm sure if I actually went searching I could find much more striking differences.

and you cannot claim that buildings which are not as brightly lit in the lesser twilight are therefore viewed through tinting. There is little to no significant difference in, for instance, the building self-illuminated in yellow.

"Lesser twilight" when you prove the corridor is facing the same direction and prove those are the same buildings.
Not to mention accounting for the fact that it was a cloudy day at Coruscant so the amount of light could change within minutes due to thicker overcast.
You of course address none of these issues and jump straight to "21 hours passed".

[Mr. Oragahn]

I know this seems like a bit of a foolish thing to point out, but according to the Episode 3 novelisation there are supposed to be giant orbital mirrors over Coruscant. It doesn't say how many, but it does mention them; this does make judging anything based on the shadows and reflections on the planet itself damn near impossible.

Yeah, and the EU has Coruscant's skies crowded with ships and stations.
Nowhere in the film we see anything like that.
There are ships, but no where to the extent described in Shadows of the Empire for example, and those orbital mirrors, to make any sense, there would be many of them.
Again, I don't remember seeing anything of consistence to gather rays and cast them back on the planet.

[Mr. Oragahn]

No, it most certainly did not. You cannot have a dark sky on the one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other, and you cannot claim that buildings which are not as brightly lit in the lesser twilight are therefore viewed through tinting. There is little to no significant difference in, for instance, the building self-illuminated in yellow.

For the first claim, please explain what you're trying to tell me in details, I fail to understand your point. I don't see where I claimed there was a dark sky on any side.

You are claiming equal brightness between the office shots and the out-the-Senate-window shot, while simultaneously we have the Senate exterior shot. Ergo, you are claiming we can have a dark sky on one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other.

No.
I don't claim any dark sky on any side. I don't see where you get that.



This image clearly shows that what darkens the sky on the left is the clouds, while the sky itself is clearer.

I perfectly know about the very intense moonlight as a matter of fact.
That said, the exterior shot of the senate during night doesn't show where the sun comes from, and it's likely something like behind the camera, on the left, which would explain the small pink tint on the right of the image, which lets us enough room to suggest that there's more unseen pink twilight offscreen, behind the camera.
Which incidentally is pretty much what you claim on this picture:



The only thing that is darker is the senate sector seen through the corridor window of the sort of promenade Windu takes to join Yoda.
The reduced intensity of the artificial lights precisely show that the window is tinted, which lets people considered that it's the same dawn.

This image precisely shows that there's the moonlight on one side, and the pink sunrise tint on the other

Scarce tinting . . . hardly what I described or what we can see.

What we can see from Palpatine's office, or from the promenade's window, those buildings we point at in many pictures, can't be seen on the external night shot of the senate.



My point is that the buildings in question are somewhere "south east" of the senate on that picture, which is why there's more pink tint in the sky behind them.

[Mr. Oragahn]

"Lesser twilight" when you prove the corridor is facing the same direction and prove those are the same buildings.

For crissake Kane, they're the same buildings. They have the exact same shape, position, spotlights and window patterns. What do you need more?

Not to mention accounting for the fact that it was a cloudy day at Coruscant so the amount of light could change within minutes due to thicker overcast.
You of course address none of these issues and jump straight to "21 hours passed".

Good point.
As for the image comparison, while I don't think Robert has proven anything, he at least talked about a dark sky. The sky on the left is all safe dark.
Even a plain nigh with a full moon is still darker than that marine blue coloured sky.

[Narsil]

I know this seems like a bit of a foolish thing to point out, but according to the Episode 3 novelisation there are supposed to be giant orbital mirrors over Coruscant. It doesn't say how many, but it does mention them; this does make judging anything based on the shadows and reflections on the planet itself damn near impossible.

Yeah, and the EU has Coruscant's skies crowded with ships and stations.
Nowhere in the film we see anything like that.
There are ships, but no where to the extent described in Shadows of the Empire for example, and those orbital mirrors, to make any sense, there would be many of them.
Again, I don't remember seeing anything of consistence to gather rays and cast them back on the planet.

There is a very significant difference between the film novelisations and the EU; the novelisations are G-canon and the EU is C-canon. There don't need to be a lot of orbital mirrors, just enough to perhaps make that slightest bit of difference.

If you're going to ignore the EU, fine. Just don't apply double-standards because the novelisations aren't on the same level.

[Kane Starkiller]

For crissake Kane, they're the same buildings. They have the exact same shape, position, spotlights and window patterns. What do you need more?

Look I'm not trying to be an ass here. Sure those four buildings look like they might very well be the four seen from Palpatines office. But if someone is using that as evidence to prove some theory than he needs more proof.
Again you say that window pattern is the same. How can you see that? I can only see blurry bluish pattern that are windows off in the distance and they are not the same. Even the building in the corridor looks wider.
Four buildings off in the distance in the dark is simply not good enough to be basing a theory on.