Tatooine-Geonosis speed revisted

[Jedi Master Spock]

We've seen a reasonable bit of Coruscant briefly. The probability that there are four other buildings of roughly the same appearance in the same configuration near another giant building that the same people are working in (yet in a different time zone) is very low.

Go behind the scenes with full resolution shots or an interview, and you'll find that it's the same background. Go to the script and novelization, and you'll probably read it described as the same building. It's not reasonable to object on those grounds.

[2046]

No, it most certainly did not. You cannot have a dark sky on the one side and a bright twilight glow with bright pink clouds on the other,

See you say something like this and then post images that completely destroy your point:
First is your Calgary twilight pic:
http://pic.templetons.com/brad/pano/mid ... ilight.jpg
Here I cut and pasted the extreme right and extreme left of the image:

Can't have a dark sky on one side and bright sky with reddish glow visible eh Darkstar?

You're being dishonest and proving my point simultaneously. Do you see bright pink clouds? Do you see a sky lit by moonlight on the other side? No, you don't.

Bright pink clouds come because of atmospheric diffraction of almost-direct sunlight. Lesser pinks and purples are less-so. Hell, you'd know this if you've ever looked at the atmosphere from orbital shots:





The right side of your pic does not show pink clouds, but dark clouds backlit only by atmosphere. The left side which you think is useful for you still shows a brighter, bluer sky than in the Senate shot, where the thin cloud edges are aglow from the moon whose reflection is visible on the Senate. Do you really think you'd be able to notice moonlight on the ground if you were beneath the sky on the left? No, you wouldn't, but it is the primary ground illumination in the Senate scene.

It's like arguing with creationists ignorant (or pretending to be ignorant) of the most basic things. Not to mention that I was very specific with my statement, yet now I've had two of you try to cherry-pick pieces out of it.

And you wonder why I have no patience for messages like yours.

Not to mention accounting for the fact that it was a cloudy day at Coruscant so the amount of light could change within minutes due to thicker overcast.

You've got to be kidding. You can't really believe this could apply to the scenes in question, can you?

By the way, you never did answer my question . . . are you the guy who claimed night must be pitch black?

[Kane Starkiller]

You're being dishonest and proving my point simultaneously. Do you see bright pink clouds? Do you see a sky lit by moonlight on the other side? No, you don't.

Not EVERY dawn or sunset will cause pink clouds. The point is that there is clear difference in brightness of the eastern and western sky.

Now this entire exchange is about you claiming that you cannot possibly have one portion of the sky be lit up pink while the other is still dark so I have no choice but to post a high resolution image:

Do you see those PINK clouds to the right Darkstar? Or will you keep pretending you are blind.
Since the camera is facing North-West then the brightest pink will be BEHIND the camera. Out of our view that is.


Now actually I'm getting pretty convinced those are the same buildings but if we again look at the image in high resolution:

We see the exact same pinkish hue distribution in both images. The one in the corridor is less bright due to contrast since we have a big-ass light staring us in the face which makes the entire scene outside the corridor windows darker including the building window lights. Absolutely no evidence for the passage of an entire rotation cycle. Not to mention your theory requiring the absurdity of Mace sitting on his hands for 24 hours before finally getting the bright idea of sending help to Obi-Wan.

You've got to be kidding. You can't really believe this could apply to the scenes in question, can you?

Why not?

By the way, you never did answer my question . . . are you the guy who claimed night must be pitch black?

No.

[Narsil]

I suppose far more damning is that after that supposed twenty-four hour period, it can't have taken more than two days for Yoda to get to Kamino (outside the Star Wars galaxy, which we can guess is at least the same size as our own, and larger in EU sources) and back with an entire well-prepared and battle-ready army.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I know this seems like a bit of a foolish thing to point out, but according to the Episode 3 novelisation there are supposed to be giant orbital mirrors over Coruscant. It doesn't say how many, but it does mention them; this does make judging anything based on the shadows and reflections on the planet itself damn near impossible.

Yeah, and the EU has Coruscant's skies crowded with ships and stations.
Nowhere in the film we see anything like that.
There are ships, but no where to the extent described in Shadows of the Empire for example, and those orbital mirrors, to make any sense, there would be many of them.
Again, I don't remember seeing anything of consistence to gather rays and cast them back on the planet.

There is a very significant difference between the film novelisations and the EU; the novelisations are G-canon and the EU is C-canon. There don't need to be a lot of orbital mirrors, just enough to perhaps make that slightest bit of difference.

If you're going to ignore the EU, fine. Just don't apply double-standards because the novelisations aren't on the same level.

It's not a matter of double standard, this is not my intent. It's that I suspect orbital mirrors to make a difference only if they're big and numerous enough to do so.

I don't even see the point of such mirrors, as it's clear in the movies that night time isn't something that is artificially fought by the use of technology. Night comes and voila.

It could only be to raise the temperature in certain regions, eventually, with enough redirected light. Say at the poles, for example, but obviously certain descriptions of the EU don't fit much with the much more moderate vision of the films.

[Narsil]

The orbital mirrors are not mentioned in an EU source is my point; they don't have to be big or numerous enough to be visible at all times, but their existence in G-canon does throw a slight curveball at the idea of using the sunlight-generated shadows in order to measure what exact time of day it is on Coruscant.

And they don't have any shortage of technological methods to tell the time, either, so the orbital mirrors remain useful.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Just to hammer the point about the buildings' position:

[Mr. Oragahn]

The orbital mirrors are not mentioned in an EU source is my point;

I doubt that, I've heard about those things even before AOTC came out.

they don't have to be big or numerous enough to be visible at all times, but their existence in G-canon does throw a slight curveball at the idea of using the sunlight-generated shadows in order to measure what exact time of day it is on Coruscant.

They would need to be numerous to deflect an amount of light that would matter to modify the lighting over a whole planet's horizon.

And they don't have any shortage of technological methods to tell the time, either, so the orbital mirrors remain useful.

Of course not, we expect Star Wars people to watches! :)

[Mr. Oragahn]

You're being dishonest and proving my point simultaneously. Do you see bright pink clouds? Do you see a sky lit by moonlight on the other side? No, you don't.

Bright pink clouds come because of atmospheric diffraction of almost-direct sunlight. Lesser pinks and purples are less-so. Hell, you'd know this if you've ever looked at the atmosphere from orbital shots:





The right side of your pic does not show pink clouds, but dark clouds backlit only by atmosphere. The left side which you think is useful for you still shows a brighter, bluer sky than in the Senate shot, where the thin cloud edges are aglow from the moon whose reflection is visible on the Senate. Do you really think you'd be able to notice moonlight on the ground if you were beneath the sky on the left? No, you wouldn't, but it is the primary ground illumination in the Senate scene.

It's like arguing with creationists ignorant (or pretending to be ignorant) of the most basic things. Not to mention that I was very specific with my statement, yet now I've had two of you try to cherry-pick pieces out of it.

And you wonder why I have no patience for messages like yours.

Kane makes a mistake, but you're not making any point either.
I don't see where you're going with that.
It's a fact that there's light reflected by a moon (assumed it's a moon) and there's the pink horizon on the other side.
No one is denying that. It was already a fact with your own image, it's even confirmed twice with Kane's high def screencap.

Seriously, I don't know what you're trying to show.

[2046]

Starkiller and Oragahn,

Please stop trolling. I realize there may be entertainment value in watching my patience sssssstttttrrrreeeeettttttcccccchhhhhh by watching how I behave against nonsensical faux-arguments, but enough is enough.

You are both attempting to equate bright pink clouds with a faint purple/pink hue I identified years ago (but which you are both pretending is a new development), thereby ignoring both my statements on my page and my statements in this very thread.

You are also both pretending that you can have this and this simultaneously in the same sky. And yes, I thought to look up while out at sunset earlier, and got a most delightful evil laugh out of that.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Starkiller and Oragahn,

Please stop trolling.

You're a tad worked up here.

I realize there may be entertainment value in watching my patience sssssstttttrrrreeeeettttttcccccchhhhhh by watching how I behave against nonsensical faux-arguments, but enough is enough.

You are both attempting to equate bright pink clouds with a faint purple/pink hue I identified years ago (but which you are both pretending is a new development), thereby ignoring both my statements on my page and my statements in this very thread.

Pretty much shows that the clouds are pink tinted, when seen from the promenade, yet we can also see that the windows have a darkening filter... again, compare the windows' glow from otehr buildings, for example from Palpatine's office and this corridor shot. I say it's darkened because of the window. Any close look does show that the pink clouds are there just as much as there are visible in Palpatine's office.

For another example, check the building we can see between blue head and Palpatine, from his office, and the same building seen from the promenade. In the office, we clearly see its numerous windows littering its facade and lighting it up like a garland. From the corridor, the facade is extremely dark in comparison.

You also miss the simple point I made earlier, being that if the outside, when seen from the promenade, was naturally that dark, then light sources, in contrast, would be even more visible, not less visible.

You are also both pretending that you can have this and this simultaneously in the same sky. And yes, I thought to look up while out at sunset earlier, and got a most delightful evil laugh out of that.

These pictures don't work.

In my opinion, I hope you're not getting that offensive just because you might have put up lots of works into two pages which could be wrong.

EDIT:

I corrected your links:
http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Spec ... -STFU1.jpg http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/Wars/Spec ... -STFU2.jpg

I'm sorry, but this won't prove anything. I'll simply point at your own schematic you don't seem to apply even here.
Put simply, most of the pink tinted horizon is not visible in that external shot. It's on the right and behind the camera.

Finally, unless you have issues with colours (hey, it's possible, it's not a personnal attack), we can clearly see, on the external shot, that the clouds on the right do start to get pink.

The case is rather clear. It's the same dawn.

[Mike DiCenso]

It can't be dawn, even if we assume it were still during the same time period since from a chronological standpoint, Mace Windu and Yoda go to witness the Sente vote giving Palpatine emergency powers after the office scene where Palpatine tricks Jar-Jar into persuading the other senators to vote for the emergency powers. The sky is indeed noticably and considerably darker than with the previous office scene, indicates that some amount of time has gone by. So if this dawn, it's an unusual one at that. If it's dusk, then it follows that the daylight is giving away to a moonlight night. Conversely it can indeed also be that the vote is taking place the following morning while the previous office scene is in the late evening.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

It can't be dawn, even if we assume it were still during the same time period since from a chronological standpoint, Mace Windu and Yoda go to witness the Sente vote giving Palpatine emergency powers after the office scene where Palpatine tricks Jar-Jar into persuading the other senators to vote for the emergency powers. The sky is indeed noticably and considerably darker than with the previous office scene, indicates that some amount of time has gone by. So if this dawn, it's an unusual one at that. If it's dusk, then it follows that the daylight is giving away to a moonlight night. Conversely it can indeed also be that the vote is taking place the following morning while the previous office scene is in the late evening.
-Mike

It can't be dusk, the sun sets on the other side.

The promenade's windows are tinted, and there's the reflexion of the neon lights which masks what's on the other side.
Notice that in Palpatine's office, there's no discernable light from the room reflecting on the windows, which allow for an almost perfectly undisturbed sight of the exterior.
This is not the case in the promenade.

[Mike DiCenso]

Then it would have to be dawn of the next day. A Dusk to dawn scene since there such a small amount of purple light reflecting off the clouds in the exterior view as compared to the earlier office scene in which the purple lighted clouds and the sky are much better lit. Dawn does not get darker, it usually gets lighter out as the sun comes up... not unless there is something really weird going on there.
-Mike

[Kane Starkiller]

There is nothing weird. The camera is pointed towards NW as I said several times. The clouds there won't be as pink.