How long WAS the Endor trip????

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Post by GStone » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:41 pm

When examining Padme's yachte travel time/distance, there are some that would chime in and say 'how can we know their definition of a parsec is the same as ours?'. It's a valid statement. We know that in our own planet's history that over time, agencies were created for establishing standards for consistency on a global scale. It is reasonable that this would also apply to interstellar civilizations, as well. But, I think our definition of parsec is good for finding the 'average' or a 'good ballpark estimate'.

Why? Because the parameters use earth and earth is within the habitable zone of a star system...the most likely place to find life within a star system hence the name 'habitable zone'. Now, it is defining life as life found on earth, but still. Conditions are earth are just ripe for producing life.

And given that pretty much every species we see in Star Wars can survive within the same planetary conditions, like when we have shots of the senators in their pods, it's almost a given that every one of these species evolved on a planet within the habitable zone of their respective star system with the same mass for a 'home planet', as well as within the same atmospheric elevation/water pressure zones of said planets. Some are closer to their star(s) than others, but using earth's distance from the star is a very good ballpark figure that wouldn't need too much modification to get to where the Republic/Empire uses the term's parameters.

And earth is smack dead middle of our system's habitable zone. So, the idea of 'average estimates' is reliable.

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Post by GStone » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:49 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Not unless that had already been taken somewhat into account on Han's part that he'd have to break through the blockade. So how would things have gone differently otherwise? More time to let the nav computer do it's computations? We're still taking a minute or two here regardless, and the same result we see in the movie. Also the departure time for the Falcon in terms of taking off from Tatooine would have at most been a matter or minutes or and hour or so on the outside if the Stormtroopers not come in to raid them.
-Mike
See, I'm not so sure about that. It's one thing to plan a course based on the fact that you know someone is looking for what you have, but isn't around or in scanning distance. It's another when they're right on top of you and within spitting distance. There might be methods involved to pass by something that screws with sensors, there's doubling back. There could be differences in how fast the Falcon and the ISDs are able to change course after going to hyperspace. In the ep 3 novel, (I forget where, but I think it was near the beginning) there was talk about going a distance, dropping out and then, setting a new course and doing it again and again.

Initially, Han might have been thinking of stealth methods only and not attracting attention, but when they were found, it was speed, less stealth and some luck. Their blast off from Tatooine was said to be them 'blasting their way out of Mos Eisley'. That isn't stealthy.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:31 pm

Except that there is little, if anything in the ANH movie or novelization that supports the idea that Han was going to spend days sneaking around when all he has to do is lift off Tatooine, and go straight in hyperspace once the nav computer calculations are made. You also forgot about this piece of dialog:

HAN: We're a little rushed, so if you'll hurry aboard we'll get out of
here
.


Sounds like Han wants to get going pretty quickly, not spend time dwadling around and sneaking about.
-Mike

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:38 pm

That three weeks topic needs a clarification though.

Say that the book has Han make the following statement:

- My ship is nice, I like red, rocks are bad. How much do I take for one trip?

Now, let's look at the film. Is Han seen saying, without interruption:

- My ship is nice, I like red. How much do I take for one trip?

"rocks are bad" is our 3 weeks here. Is there any possibility to claim that, due to cut or noise covering his voice, he may have uttered 3 weeks, but we would have heard him, either because it happened during a micro cut, off screen, or because it was covered by noise?
Can we realisitcally cram the 3 weeks into the film's dialogue?

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Post by Praeothmin » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:52 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Can we realisitcally cram the 3 weeks into the film's dialogue?
What???
Are you crazy?
Take Lucas' dialogue and make it three weeks long?
Nobody would survive the corniness... :)

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:59 pm

I think you misunderstand, Oragahn. Intent is not necessarily something voiced out loud, at least as far as the movie is concerned, but it is still a true thing. Remember that the story of Star Wars is being told to us after the fact as part of the Journal of the Whills. Think of it as a detailed historical perspecitve where the main participants have been interviewed and their experiances have been written down. So no, Han is not necessarily actually speaking those words, but after the fact the author of the Journal of the Whills maybe sat down with Han, or did research and found out more about Han's intent at that time, then recorded that down Han's intent by having him mention to Jabba that he'll be back in three 3 weeks time with the money.

Conversely we can also look at it as Han did say that in the raw "documentry footage", but that was edited out because it is not as important that a causal viewer know that information, but in the Journal of the Whills it is included because that format allows for more information to be relayed.

So you can include the three weeks round trip time. Han intended to spend a maybe up to a week getting to Alderaan; drop off his passengers and their droids; collect his fare, then maybe spend a week with maintance, refueling the Falcon as well as get some rest and relaxation in (forge new papers, too) ; then finally make the trip back and pay off Jabba.
-Mike

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:04 pm

Praeothmin wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Can we realisitcally cram the 3 weeks into the film's dialogue?
What???
Are you crazy?
Take Lucas' dialogue and make it three weeks long?
Nobody would survive the corniness... :)
Mind you don't get confused here, the trip to Alderaan would not take three weeks. It is a round trip time, including turnaround.
-Mike

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Post by GStone » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:47 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:HAN: We're a little rushed, so if you'll hurry aboard we'll get out of
here
.


Sounds like Han wants to get going pretty quickly, not spend time dwadling around and sneaking about.
-Mike
Maybe, but there is an alternative perspective. Han's just come from blasting Greedo and then, it gets followed up by Jabba showing up. Then, he haggles about how much interest he's gonna pay and gets threaten with a bounty put on his head. Lastly, there's Luke who has already acted pissy during the negotiations in the cantina and is now ragging on his whip when Luke and Ben and Co. are in desperate need and Han knows it by the high price Ben said he'd pay at Alderaan. He really wants the money, so instead of hearing Luke complain some more, he wants everyone getting settled in, so he can get this entire thing done.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:49 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:I think you misunderstand, Oragahn. Intent is not necessarily something voiced out loud, at least as far as the movie is concerned, but it is still a true thing. Remember that the story of Star Wars is being told to us after the fact as part of the Journal of the Whills. Think of it as a detailed historical perspecitve where the main participants have been interviewed and their experiances have been written down. So no, Han is not necessarily actually speaking those words, but after the fact the author of the Journal of the Whills maybe sat down with Han, or did research and found out more about Han's intent at that time, then recorded that down Han's intent by having him mention to Jabba that he'll be back in three 3 weeks time with the money.

Conversely we can also look at it as Han did say that in the raw "documentry footage", but that was edited out because it is not as important that a causal viewer know that information, but in the Journal of the Whills it is included because that format allows for more information to be relayed.

So you can include the three weeks round trip time. Han intended to spend a maybe up to a week getting to Alderaan; drop off his passengers and their droids; collect his fare, then maybe spend a week with maintance, refueling the Falcon as well as get some rest and relaxation in (forge new papers, too) ; then finally make the trip back and pay off Jabba.
-Mike
You're not replying to my question.
If the book's line doesn't fit in the film, then it's not valid.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:01 am

I did reply to your question. And yes, it does fit in with the film since we have such a huge potential unseen time for the Falcon's trip to Alderaan. So Han's novelization statement makes sense when you take all the factors into account as I've previously noted.
-Mike

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:03 am

GStone wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:HAN: We're a little rushed, so if you'll hurry aboard we'll get out of
here
.


Sounds like Han wants to get going pretty quickly, not spend time dwadling around and sneaking about.
-Mike
Maybe, but there is an alternative perspective. Han's just come from blasting Greedo and then, it gets followed up by Jabba showing up. Then, he haggles about how much interest he's gonna pay and gets threaten with a bounty put on his head. Lastly, there's Luke who has already acted pissy during the negotiations in the cantina and is now ragging on his whip when Luke and Ben and Co. are in desperate need and Han knows it by the high price Ben said he'd pay at Alderaan. He really wants the money, so instead of hearing Luke complain some more, he wants everyone getting settled in, so he can get this entire thing done.
Right, which only supports my contention that Han was not planning on taking things slow, and the departure from Tatooine was going to be that day, likely within the hour of everyone boarding the ship in Docking bay 94.
-Mike

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Post by GStone » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:13 am

Well :-P

;-)

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:23 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:I did reply to your question. And yes, it does fit in with the film since we have such a huge potential unseen time for the Falcon's trip to Alderaan. So Han's novelization statement makes sense when you take all the factors into account as I've previously noted.
-Mike
My problem is that right now, I don't have ANH anymore, so I can't check if it could have been possible for us to pretend that Han spoke about the three weeks when talking to Jabba.
If it didn't happen then when it should have, if it's impossible to pretend that the camera cut before Han pronounced the last bit of his speech to Jabba which would include the "3 weeks", then it's not valid, not matter the complex argumentation you're making - which for all I can say, I couldn't agree with.

We know it's the same scene. The film takes precedence. There's no argumentation possible on that. If the film clearly shows that Han could have never spoke about the three weeks, then we're fixed and that bit of information is not receivable.

Though the EU argues that the SW galaxy is big while the higher canon says it's a small galaxy, as far as Tatooine is concerned, it's relatively well placed in regards of the core.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:50 am

I find it funny that with all those turbolifts and vehicles, the Imperials would not have any way to cross most of the distance between the bunker entrance and the generator sector relatively quickly.

On the same hand, the book clearly suggest that they crossed all that distance on feet.
The main shield generator dish is on the near side of the ridge, and the bunker on the far side. That puts it on the opposite side of the ridge not only from the Rebels' initial perch, but also the main complex.
That's the problem of a film which, by its cut, easily suggests that events happen within a few hours, when the books says things last longer.
79 EXT ENDOR - RIDGE OVERLOOKING SHIELD GENERATOR 79

Han, Leia, Chewbacca, the droids, Wicket, and another Ewok scout,
PAPLOO, hide on a ridge overlooking the massive Imperial shield
generator. At the base of the generator is an Imperial landing
platform. Leia studies the installation.

LEIA
The main entrance to the control bunker's on
the far side of that landing platform. This
isn't gonna be easy.

HAN
Hey, don't worry. Chewie and me got into a
lot of places more heavily guarded than this.

Wicket and Paploo are chattering away in Ewok language. They
speak to Threepio.

LEIA
What's he saying?

THREEPIO
He says there's a secret entrance on the
other side of the ridge.

80 EXT SPACE - REBEL FLEET 80

The vast fleet hangs in space near a blue planet. A giant Rebel
Star Cruiser is up at the front, but now the Millennium Flacon
roars up to a spot ahead of it, tiny in comparison.
The far side of the ridge was on the other side of the platform.

Image

Image

What's the ridge here? The point of view is elevated, so the ridge's end may not even be visible, if it doesn't totally encircle the base.

It's also easy to cover 3 km in one hour.

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Post by Jedi Master Spock » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:59 am

There is a ridgeline visible in the actual film. It's on the opposite side of the dish, and it is actually the horizon line for that middle stretch. As I pointed out in the other thread.

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