Which would win? The Defiant, or the Executor?

[Jedi Master Spock]

Shall we begin?

In the one corner, at somewhere between 50 and 200 meters in length, the Defiant, a small cloakable warship noted for having fighter-like maneuverability and exceptional power for its size. At the conn, the towering Klingon warrior Worf, with orders to destroy the Executor before the Dominion arrives in the sector. (Sisko is elsewhere.)

In the other corner, at somewhere between 8 and 19 kilometers in length, the Imperial command ship Executor, notable for its great size. It has a fresh new paint job to cover up any dents and scratches from the Hoth asteroid field. At the conn, the newly promoted Admiral Piett, parked in-system and waiting for the return of his command ship's escorts from an extended patrol through the sector. (They - and Vader - will not show up in any reasonable length of time.)

Who wins - and how? (For whatever reasons. Call this one wide open.)

[Enterprise E]

Just to begin, I'll say that I am a fan of both Star Trek and Star Wars. I think that both sides are relatively equal in one on one ship combat. Wars has superior total, if not bolt to bolt, firepower and shielding while Trek has superior STL speed, maneuverability, sensors, and weapons accuracy.

I think that if any Trek ship can defeat an Executor in one on one combat, it would probably be the Defiant. That said, the chances that it would win are small, and a lot of things would have to go right. First of all, the Defiant would have to scan the Executor from outside the Executor's weapons range, something that shouldn't be too difficult. Second is that Sisko, or Worf is he's commanding, has to have a plan for the battle. There is no way the Defiant has more firepower than the Executor.

Here is the plan. The Executor has two shield generators on the bridge tower that are glaring targets. The Defiant's first goal should be to take it out. It shouldn't be too tough for the Defiant since Quantum Torpedoes are stronger than any common shipboard weapon the Empire fields, and definately stronger than the dozen or so Concussion Missiles the two A-Wings used to take out the Executor's bridge shield generator. Also, the Defiant has superior weapons range, accuracy, and maneuverability, something it will need if it wishes to survive long enough to execute this plan. With the destruction of the shield generators, the very least that will happen is that the bridge deflector shields will be gone, possibly the shields from the entire ship if the second globe is destroyed as well. If only the bridge loses shields, then the Defiant must target the bridge tower with its torpedoes and destroy it. This should disable the ship for a few moments. Now, the Defiant must go above the ship and fire down into the wrecked bridge tower. Hopefully, a few QT's will burrow down into the hull and explode, gouging larger holes into the ship, and opening more holes in the shields for the Defiant to fire on. A few more volleys of torpedo fire, assuming they didn't damage the ship enough to cause a core overload and breach, should be sufficient to destroy the SSD.

The plan outlined above, while probably good, is not foolproof and relies on one thing in particular: the Defiant's maneuverability. The Defiant doesn't have shields as strong as an ISD or comparable ship. The Empire has difficulty targeting small, fast ships though, which the Defiant is, so the chances that it will be able to zero in on the Defiant and hit it with a lot of its weapons is small. That said, however, the SSD's are just so big and have so many weapons. If Sisko makes even one mistake, or the gunnery crews are really on their game, it's over for the Defiant. Also, the plan outlined above is the only plan that can allow the Defiant to win this battle and I am basing the success of that plan on the fact that we never saw any rebel ships shooting the Executor in RoTJ, making my belief that those globes, or at least one of them, was a shield generator or at least a vital projector that without it, there's a hole in the shields. If that is wrong, or if any modifications were made to the next Executor class ship that would render that plan ineffective, then the Defiant's only chance for survival is to run. It cannot beat an SSD on a level playing field at all without exploiting any enemy weaknesses. I doubt that any Federation vessel can, even the mighty Sovereign class starship.

[Jedi Master Spock]

OK, I'll confess something: When I set the scenario up, I "fixed" it. In my mind, anyway. I was thinking about the cloaking device as a method of catching the Executor with its pants around its ankles. Cheap sucker-punch, but there's a chance Worf might not take it.

But you're right in that the Executor should have enough firepower and durability to out-brute the Defiant. Put the two next to each other and the Defiant looks like a starfighter. A small starfighter. Quantum torpedos may be rocking, but that's a lot of ship to try and destroy.

The fight could resemble the fight between the mirror-Defiant and mirror-Worf's command ship from the mirror universe. Only more so.

[Socar]

Here is the plan. The Executor has two shield generators on the bridge tower that are glaring targets.

Actually, supposedly those were actually sensor globes, not shield generators. You'll notice that only one was taken out before the Executor lost its shields. Kinda pointless in having two generators if it only takes one to bring down the shields, eh? Apparently the globe being destroyed was just one of many things that caused them to lose their shields (after all, Ackbar did order all fire to be concentrated on the Executor). Apparently them being sensor globes has been confirmed by ILM. On the other hand, I have often wondered why they needed two sensor globes, but whatever.

More on this can be found here.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

If the Defiant used it's cloking device and attacked in the right way it stands a small chance. I'd sneak up behind the Executor, decloak and upen up just infront of the central engine cluster. Does anyone kow if SSDs have aft guns, or are they like ISDs where there is a gaping hole in their firing arc?

If the Defiant uses it's cloaking device well, then it is the best ship the federation can field in this battle, but if Worf decides to do things "honorably" then the Prometheus would be a much better choice. But once the Executor's shields are down it doesn't matter what ship is used, transporting torpedos into critical areas should be that hard.

And as to the whole sensor vs. shield generator globes, I thought the globes where sensors, and the shield generator was right below them.

So basically it depends on the Defiant's battle plan. The three ways for them to win are, what I said before about taking out their shields and shooting them in thier butt, taking out shields and then transporting torpedos into vital areas, and the third is dance around beyond the Executor's effective range and should at it until the SSD's shields fail, or Defiant runs out of ammo. Since Worf would probably try to slug it out with the Executor I don't like the Defiant's chances.

[Socar]

Does anyone kow if SSDs have aft guns

I can't find any on-screen evidence to form a conclusion one way or another. Hell, I even checked RotS to see if the Venators had aft guns, but I couldn't really tell. At times it appeared as though they were firing shots behind them, but it was a little tough to tell, and many of those shots were just in that general direction, and no necessarly shot directly behind them. I kept getting distracted by Anakin's antics as well.

or are they like ISDs where there is a gaping hole in their firing arc?

They do? Source?

Anyway, it'd be kinda sad if a ship as large as the Executor couldn't defend itself from behind, though it may depend on fighter support for that.

And as to the whole sensor vs. shield generator globes, I thought the globes where sensors, and the shield generator was right below them.

That still doesn't make much sense. For one, if you look carefully, after the globe is destroyed, everything below it is still intact. Two, that theory still suffers from the "only one of two generators are destroyed but shields are knocked out anyway" problem. I prefer Curtis Saxton's explanation. It really just doesn’t make any sense for them to have their generators be dependent on such a vulnerable area. Then again, in RotS The Invisible Hand’s hanger bay shield generators were pretty pathetically protected.



And really, this whole thing somewhat depends on how desperate the scenario is. If Worf knows that they must win at all costs, and believes the Executor is just simply way too powerful to go toe to toe with, he very well might just ram the bridge (and considering it's Worf in command, this scenario becomes even more likely). Hell, if things were that bad he could even stay cloaked and ram it, possibly even at warp.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

I was also wondering if in system means that the executor is close to a planet? Normal this wouldn't matter, but based on what happens to the Executor in RotJ this may be relevant. The only visible damage was to the bridge tower and one of the starboard engines. Interestingly after only the first few kms of the Executor has sunk into the DS2 a giant fireball envelops the whole ship. While I am impressed by the ability to design and build such a huge vessel, I am disappointed in its actual application and the vessel's performance. But I will say this for it, the Executor withstood a long pounding from the rebel fleet at Endor, and probably from the asteroids too. Based on the simple fact that the Executor is about a million times bigger than the Defiant I have to side with the Executor, Worf isn't that superior of a tactician, and the defiant isn't quite strong enough. The two Trek locals who stand a decent chance of beating the Executor one-on-one are the Breen Confederacy with their energy dampening weapons, and the Romulans/Remens with the Scimitar. [/img]

[Narsil]

If we go by the ICS info (emphasis; IF) the Executor has more than enough firepower to merely vapourise the thing with a single stray shot.

Hello, I'm Narsil/Dakarne/Whoever, by the way.

[iconoclast]

Does anyone kow if SSDs have aft guns, or are they like ISDs where there is a gaping hole in their firing arc?

Yes.

The surface of the Executor was dotted with all sorts of weaponry. Its front arc was covered by 200 heavy and light turbolaser batteries, 50 concussion missile launchers, 100 ion cannons, and 20 tractor beam projectors. Its side arcs each boasted coverage by 75 light turbolaser batteries and 50 heavy turbolaser batteries, as well as 75 missile tubes, 50 ion cannons and 10 tractor beam projectors. The rear arc, traditionally the least defended area of a vessel, had an impressive weapons array of 50 heavy turbolaser batteries, 50 missile tubes, and 50 ion cannons.

If you want info on Star Wars ships just go straight to the source.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... yer/?id=eu

[SailorSaturn13]

It depends on the opening. A salvo of SSD HTLs most likely overpowers the small "Defiant". But if it can position itself behind engine area, it will blow the Executor over time, andd the big ship cannot fight back. Once there "Defiant" can easily maneuver so it will remain after the engines.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

Well the Defiant does have a cloaking device, so it could sneek in behind one of the Executor's engines and just shoot until the ship blows up. The Executor might send a few hundred TIE fighters after the Defiant, but those things are so pathetic that they are hardly worth mentioning, plus the Defiant actually does have regular phasers, they just aren't used very often becuase they are substantially weak than pulse phasers. So, like I said before, if the Defiant plays it smart they stand a decent chance, but with Worf in command I have my doubts.

Also, I don't really care what either the ICS books or Starwars.com have to say since both are non-canon sources.

[Jedi Master Spock]

In the original post, I said "for whatever reason." Interpretation of the SWDB surely is included in that.

I will be momentarily splitting the last couple posts in this thread to the Rules of Evidence section so you can continue discussion of the SWDB.