Mike DiCenso wrote:
Even granting that they may be just wearing ceremonial armor in all cases, the fact that single shots can literally burn right through a person and those thick layers of whatever is quite an astounding display of power for a beam weapon.
Cpl Kendall wrote:
There is no proof that their "armour" is anything but what it appears to be. And I've yet to see a ST weapon actually burn straight through a person. Thick layers my ass, if you look at clothes you can tell that it's thin. It has to be to remain flexable.
But yet the cardassian "clothing" is not that flexible (ridged clearly, even in the earliest incarnation), except at the joints, just like your over-hyped version of modern day armor.
As for burning through someone, just look more carefully at the examples given in the thread I pointed out to you. But I won't suprise me to see you handwave away that as well, too.
Well no duh there. Of course they are taught that! But that's not the point. A phaser beam can still hit an unprotected part of the body (assuming your magical, phaser-blocking version of modern day body armor exists). If a phaser shot to the chest doesn't work, well shoot the bastard in the head or arm or leg where the armor doesn't protect him, which is where the point about SF officers and troops training using rapidly moving lights on the holodeck comes into play. They will be ready to change up and shoot something small, like the gaps in the armor, if need be in an instant.
Your as sharp as a sack of wet mice aren't you? Hitting a target outside of the torso is incredibly difficult under the best conditions, add in combat and the rate of rounds expended to hits can drop to as little as 30%. You have to aim for the center of mass to get the maximum possible chance for a hit. ST troops with their lack of hard training and experiance are likely to fair even worse. And with their incredibly shitty weapons designs it will be next to impossible to hit limb targets at range.
I love seeing you slowly fall apart here, Kendall. You fall back on the tired old SDN/Wongian/Poe tactic of throwing around insults instead of actually addressing the point.
I also love how SF troops "have no experiance" dispite several years straight of fighting the Borg, Klingons, Cardassians, Dominion, and Breen!
But please, keep on with the handwaving. It's amusing.
I've already adressed this.
Tried to with handwaving.
But frankly speaking, the phaser beam will likely just burn right through the kevlar and ceramics of the Marines just fine.
Links to Trekcore that show nothing, nice.
You have the URLs there, you can look them up, if need be.
The links don't work for some reason, probably Trekcore not wanting people taking up too much of their bandwidth.
If you really want to see the image, just click on the screencaps section for DS9, then click on season 5, "Nor the Battle the Strong" is easily found
and the images are on page 15.
Who said anything about high power (that is the maximum, or near maximum power of the phaser)? Please read what I wrote more carefully Kendall. Setting seven on a scale of sixteen that can heat an alloy up to 2,300 degrees C is hardly "high-power". At worst that's moderate range power.
You said high setting.
No, that is your own misunderstanding. I gave a setting and range of possible uses. If I wrote something that confused you, then I'am sorry, but at no point did I mean to suggest that.
But on that matter, we have in TOS' "The Omega Glory" where renegade Captain Ronald Tracey formerly of the U.S.S. Exeter along with four of his Kohm henchmen kill thousands of Yangs with their phasers. Tracey is later shown chasing Kirk and shooting at him with the high-power "disintegrate" mode, which argues that at least hundreds of such shots are possible before power pack exaustion.
Barbarions with fur do not an argument against armour make.
As is typical, you missed the point, which was about an example of a renegade SF officer using a phaser pistol less advanced than TNG-era tech, and yet was able to kill hundreds, if not a thousand people with a phaser set on disintegrate mode (the highest possible on a TOS-era phaser).
Now are you seriously telling me that a squad or platoon of Marines is going to be able to hold out against that for very long? I don't think so. However, we are talking here about the lower/moderate settings providing ample enough power to burn holes through the Marines' armor and through them out to the other side, and still leave plenty of "ammo" for the SF troops.
-Mike
ST weapons are short range, unergonomic and produce no shrapnell. The Marines can sit outside of range and pour fire into them and the ST goons won't be able to do anything. Add in grenades, heavy weapons and vehicles and they are fucked.
And yet they often hit their targets, even from range, and using a phaser on disintgration mode doesn't limit their "ammo" in the way that you want it to. If you want to add in mortar artillery, then SF gets the photon grenades from "Arena" [TOS], and "Legacy" [TNG], as well as the various flash-bang grenades and explosive devices they've been shown or mentioned using over the course of all five series. A single photon grenade from about 1,500 meters ought to settle the issue.
-Mike