What's your opinion?Andrey Summers in »[i]The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom[/i]« wrote:
- The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom
My girlfriend doesn’t understand what I see in Star Wars. We’ve had several soul-crushing arguments about what exactly makes this series so important to me, and every time I have found it more and more difficult to argue my case. As the maddening years have wound on, I think I finally understand the reason for this crippling handicap.
- written by: Andrey Summers
written on: 05/31/2005
There is a diabolical twist to Star Wars fandom, you see, that defies comprehension, and yet is the life-blood of all Star Wars fans. It is this:
Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.
If you run into somebody who tells you they thought the franchise was quite enjoyable, and they very-much liked the originals as well as the prequels, and even own everything on DVD, and a few of the books, these imposters are not Star Wars Fans.
Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.
The primary fulcrum for the Star Wars fan’s hate (including my own) is George Lucas, creator of Star Wars. Unlike Trekkies/Trekkers who adore Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, Star Wars fans hate the father of their obsession. We hate the fact that George Lucas got it wrong from the beginning, creating incest between Luke and Leia. We hate the fact that he wrenched Return of the Jedi off of Kashyyyk and set it on Endor with those tiny, furry Hobbit bitches he called “Ewoksâ€, which is a syllabic anagram of Wookiee if you’re obsessed enough. We despise the entire existence of literally half of the Star Wars movies, blaming George Lucas’ greed and flawed ‘vision’ for everything.
We believe George Lucas’ ideal death time was 2:07am, 14 November, 1990.
Star Wars fans also hate the original Star Wars trilogy. We think Mark Hamill’s acting was whiny, the pacing was flawed, and Empire was better than Jedi, making the end of the series a let-down. We hate the way Boba Fett died, and we hate the cantankerous, arthritic duel between Vader and Obi-wan. We don’t understand why the storm-troopers can’t shoot worth a damn, and we don’t get why “an entire legion of [the Emperor’s] best troopsâ€(ROTJ, Palpatine) can be overpowered by a tribal society of midget teddy-bears armed largely with rocks and twigs. Star Wars fans hate omnipotent war-machines that get their legs tangled in strings, or slip on logs. They hate Darth Vader’s face and that stupid harmonica thing he was playing. Star Wars fans hate the original Star Wars trilogy.
There is also, as you probably know, a series of Special Editions that have replaced the original Star Wars trilogy, and these are also hated by Star Wars fans with an even more scorching fervor. Star Wars fans hate the glaring CG changes made to scenes we already hated to begin with. We hate that Han Solo now killed Greedo in self-defense, and then stepped on Jabba the Hutt’s tail (which we liken to Carrot Top stepping on Fidel Castro’s tail). We hate the fact that the ghost of Alec Guinness (whose name is an anagram of Genuine Class, by the way) now stands next to Hayden Christensen (whose name I tried to re-arrange into a flattering anagram myself, but only came up with “Nn…Dense Chest Hairâ€). Star Wars fans are unsure if Fidel Castro has a tail or not, but we hate the Special Editions of the trilogy just the same.
There is of course also a prequel trilogy to Star Wars. It is newer, more epic, more expensive, and more visually stunning than the original trilogy. Star Wars fans know this, and so we hate it even more. We hate it with the burning passion of a setting pair of twin suns. Jar Jar Binks, Midichlorians, technology that is blatantly more sophisticated than the “later†original trilogy…we despise all of it. There’s nothing a Star Wars fan hates more than a Star Wars prequel. They demystified Boba Fett, contradicted countless lines in the original trilogy (Obi-Wan: “He was our only hope.†Yoda: “No…there is another.†Obi-Wan (not in script): “Oh, right, I f*cking held both of these kids as they were born in Episode 3. Sorry Yoda, I just plumb forgot!â€)
Star Wars fans think Mark Ha…uh…Hayden Christensen’s acting was whiny. And the pacing was flawed.
Beyond the movies, there are also various television-related Star Wars endeavors which Star Wars fans despise. Starting with that abysmal “Holiday Special†in which Carrie Fisher appeared drunk and tried to celebrate Christmas through song in a Jesus-less galaxy, Star Wars fans have watched and hated everything. We think Droids was a waste of time, Ewok Adventures was an extension of everything we hated about Return of the Jedi, and we’ve seen both seasons of Clone Wars which we hate because we believe them to be immensely inconsistent with the prequels we also hate.
Star Wars fans think the Star Wars comic-books are a stockpile of contrivance written for marketing purposes by people who know nothing about Star Wars. Every gimmick imaginable to bring back super-weapons long destroyed and token bad-guys long-beaten is spewed forth from these comic books, and Star Wars fans want nothing to do with it. Star Wars fans have read the one in which Han Solo works in tandem with a giant rabbit and we are not impressed.
Then, naturally, there are the videogames. Star Wars fans hate LucasArts, and the opportunist drivel that comprises most of the gameplay-less apertures known as Star Wars games that they vomit up every fiscal quarter. Star Wars fans know that there is no such thing as a good Star Wars strategy game, we yelled at our PS1 when Masters of Teras-Kasi came out, and we kind-of liked the Jedi Knight series, but not at first and definitely not towards the end. Star Wars fans did not like Knights of the Old Republic, unless they were RPG fans. This does not count. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars videogames.
The final main elixir of Star Wars folklore is the ever-growing library of Star Wars books. These have managed to make a complex main character our of practically every background alien seen in the movies, and expanded the universe into a colossal, self-contradictory maze. Star Wars fans hate this. We hate how trite and tired the books were getting before the New Jedi Order series, and we hate the New Jedi Order series for being so radically different, and not nearly trite or tired enough. Star Wars fans hate it when previously-deceased characters are brought back to life, but we also hate Timothy Zahn for not bringing his characters back to life. Star Wars fans did not hate Grand Admiral Thrawn, but we do now, because he is always dead. The Star Wars movies also contradict and completely ignore droves of information within the Star Wars books. Star Wars fans now know that George Lucas has no idea who Jaster Mareel is, and it makes us very angry. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars books.
Now that I have covered all of this, you can finally begin to compute why I can never prove to Emily that Star Wars is a monumental event worth devoting one’s life to. The very nature of the argument means I have to defend Star Wars, and since I am a Star Wars fan, I don’t actually understand how to do that.
Maybe I’ll put it like this. To be a Star Wars fan, one must possess the ability to see a million different failures and downfalls, and then somehow assemble them into a greater picture of perfection. Every true Star Wars fan is a Luke Skywalker, looking at his twisted, evil father, and somehow seeing good.
My earlier statement needs slight revision. We hate everything about Star Wars.
But the idea of Star Wars…the idea we love.
The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom
- Who is like God arbour
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The Complex and Terrifying Reality of Star Wars Fandom
I've just read an interessting article:
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GStone
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I don't see this to be Wars fan specific. Wars fans are massive in number and are around the globe. Differing opinions will creep up.Now that I have covered all of this, you can finally begin to compute why I can never prove to Emily that Star Wars is a monumental event worth devoting one’s life to. The very nature of the argument means I have to defend Star Wars, and since I am a Star Wars fan, I don’t actually understand how to do that.
Maybe I’ll put it like this. To be a Star Wars fan, one must possess the ability to see a million different failures and downfalls, and then somehow assemble them into a greater picture of perfection. Every true Star Wars fan is a Luke Skywalker, looking at his twisted, evil father, and somehow seeing good.
My earlier statement needs slight revision. We hate everything about Star Wars.
But the idea of Star Wars…the idea we love.
- Mr. Oragahn
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I don't know. At first glance, I'd have said that this person has a butthole, like me, like you all, but the difference here is that he thinks his is bigger and more important.
That said, there are good points. The one I like is... err... there's quite a lot, but it could very well be Obi-Wan forgetting about Leia.
Above all, I'm not sure I consider myself a fan of Star Wars as much as I was a decade ago, yet I enjoy many SW games.
I think the guy, above all, is in love with his fan fiction, and that, he can't find a way to explain it to his actual real life partner, because he knows it's awkward, and she wouldn't understand.
That said, there are good points. The one I like is... err... there's quite a lot, but it could very well be Obi-Wan forgetting about Leia.
Above all, I'm not sure I consider myself a fan of Star Wars as much as I was a decade ago, yet I enjoy many SW games.
I think the guy, above all, is in love with his fan fiction, and that, he can't find a way to explain it to his actual real life partner, because he knows it's awkward, and she wouldn't understand.
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Socar
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I'm pretty much in agreement with Mr. Oragahn. The only other thing I took issue with was the author's implication that Trek fans don't seem to be critical of Trek/Roddenberry (and in the bigger picture maybe that's true, I really wouldn't know since I haven't talked to enough fans around), but I personally had a lot of issues with post-TOS Trek and many of the changes Roddenberry made, not to mention who he ended up handing the reigns of the franchise to.
- l33telboi
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Oh dear lord, no.Star Wars fans did not like Knights of the Old Republic, unless they were RPG fans.
KotoR is probably the best thing to ever come out of Star Wars franchise and I've given both games a whirl more then once. And it has nothing to do with being an RPG, because the RPG system was broken and pointless to the extreme.
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Jedi Master Spock
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When someone first posted the link to this in my blog on SW.com, I had mixed reactions. Perhaps this isn't unique to Star Wars, and there are few fans who have all of those complaints - but it certainly does describe quite a few fans.
I've heard almost every single one of the sentiments and complaints he describes from people who I cannot doubt are Star Wars fans - most of them from lots of those people. Granted, I haven't really heard people complain about KOTOR very much. It gets very good reviews.
I've heard almost every single one of the sentiments and complaints he describes from people who I cannot doubt are Star Wars fans - most of them from lots of those people. Granted, I haven't really heard people complain about KOTOR very much. It gets very good reviews.
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Narsil
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I personally think, in my professional opinion, that Wars is immensely flawed, could do with some immense revision, and could also do with some better acting. I also think that Wars is really fun despite this, and the ideas and storyline are really good and have surprising depth upon a second viewing.
But I don't consider myself a Star Wars fan. I'm a Whovian instead.
But I don't consider myself a Star Wars fan. I'm a Whovian instead.
- Praeothmin
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watchdog
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Well this explains much, all the warsies are going insane with hatred :D
Seriously though I can simpathize with many of his concerns, I personally dont have too much trouble reconciling the various contradictions though because I dont take this stuff that seriously. My problem with Wars is that it has been painted into a corner of being a one-trick pony, all of the stories are about war and conflict (obviously considering it's called Star WARS). I think the series could do with other stories not about ongoing war and conflict, I mean when I look up at the night sky at the stars and constellations, I think of traveling to said stars on the Enterprise, not the Millenium Falcon. When was the last time you saw a nebula in star wars?
That galaxy far, far away doesnt even look like a very good tourist place, Lucas didnt want something that looked too sterile and yet he doesnt have anything that looks very homey or cheery, everything is bigger than life and made out of marble (or whatever passes as marble in the galaxy). Most of the planets are worthless dirtballs that are far too dangerous to go to for even a day let alone a vacation (DO not go swimming on Naboo!) The nature of the beast I suppose but that is my feeling, I suppose that is why I love the idea of a star trek and star wars crossover. Both series have been around forever, and have run their course, they are a bit stale. I can envision breathing new life into the shows with a starfleet crew maybe entering a pod into the Boonta eve race, or a Jedi serving in Starfleet. Who wouldnt want to see a Vulcan or Klingon Jedi or even a Wookie chief engeneer working on a warp core. Think of it, the epic scale of star wars with a star trek storyline (the good ones, not Berman or Bragas rum-soaked meanderings). What do others think?
Seriously though I can simpathize with many of his concerns, I personally dont have too much trouble reconciling the various contradictions though because I dont take this stuff that seriously. My problem with Wars is that it has been painted into a corner of being a one-trick pony, all of the stories are about war and conflict (obviously considering it's called Star WARS). I think the series could do with other stories not about ongoing war and conflict, I mean when I look up at the night sky at the stars and constellations, I think of traveling to said stars on the Enterprise, not the Millenium Falcon. When was the last time you saw a nebula in star wars?
That galaxy far, far away doesnt even look like a very good tourist place, Lucas didnt want something that looked too sterile and yet he doesnt have anything that looks very homey or cheery, everything is bigger than life and made out of marble (or whatever passes as marble in the galaxy). Most of the planets are worthless dirtballs that are far too dangerous to go to for even a day let alone a vacation (DO not go swimming on Naboo!) The nature of the beast I suppose but that is my feeling, I suppose that is why I love the idea of a star trek and star wars crossover. Both series have been around forever, and have run their course, they are a bit stale. I can envision breathing new life into the shows with a starfleet crew maybe entering a pod into the Boonta eve race, or a Jedi serving in Starfleet. Who wouldnt want to see a Vulcan or Klingon Jedi or even a Wookie chief engeneer working on a warp core. Think of it, the epic scale of star wars with a star trek storyline (the good ones, not Berman or Bragas rum-soaked meanderings). What do others think?
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Cocytus
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When it comes to Star Wars and Star Trek, for me they satisfy entirely different desires. Star Wars is epic fantasy, more in keeping thematically with The Lord of the Rings than with most other sci-fi. Lucas' acknowledged inspiration for the original was Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress, and few filmmakers can match Kurosawa for epic and engaging storylines. Trek is altogether different. When the writers get it right (which, admittedly, they do far less often then getting it wrong) Star Trek reaches a level of complexity and introspection which Star Wars, for the most part, simply doesn't have. Episodes like Darmok, The Inner Light, All Good Things, Distant Origin, Death Wish, Latent Image, Measure of a Man, etc.
I actually do agree with him on one point, and that is the prequel trilogy. I didn't hate it, but I was intensely disappointed by it, since to me it seemed as if it was specifically aimed at a much younger and less sophisticated audience. The flashy martial arts battles are nice eye candy, but no fights get close to the emotional resonance of the major duels in TESB or ROTJ. It's almost as if Lucas created TPM and AOTC with the expressed purposed of having all the noisy kids beg their mothers for lightsaber toys and action figures after seeing the movie. As for the originals, I've never understood the loathing some people espouse for ROTJ. The Ewoks are silly, sure, but the battles both on and above Endor are still fun, masterfully crafted adventures. The space battle in particular still ranks among the best in any movie outside the Wrath of Khan, blowing the battles in the new trilogy clear out of the water. Truthfully, I miss the way things were done before CGI became all the rage. The original battles were thrilling, and they were done with models and optical compositing. The ships possessed a speed and power which the new trilogy just doesn't have. There's nothing thrilling about watching obviously computer-generated ships weave around lethargically for 20 minutes before anything of note happens. That's something else I've noticed about filmmaking in general, not just Star Wars. CGI has allowed them to do so much they've forgetting any measure of subtlety. All the eye candy is nice, but I'd like some cake with my icing, thanks.
I actually do agree with him on one point, and that is the prequel trilogy. I didn't hate it, but I was intensely disappointed by it, since to me it seemed as if it was specifically aimed at a much younger and less sophisticated audience. The flashy martial arts battles are nice eye candy, but no fights get close to the emotional resonance of the major duels in TESB or ROTJ. It's almost as if Lucas created TPM and AOTC with the expressed purposed of having all the noisy kids beg their mothers for lightsaber toys and action figures after seeing the movie. As for the originals, I've never understood the loathing some people espouse for ROTJ. The Ewoks are silly, sure, but the battles both on and above Endor are still fun, masterfully crafted adventures. The space battle in particular still ranks among the best in any movie outside the Wrath of Khan, blowing the battles in the new trilogy clear out of the water. Truthfully, I miss the way things were done before CGI became all the rage. The original battles were thrilling, and they were done with models and optical compositing. The ships possessed a speed and power which the new trilogy just doesn't have. There's nothing thrilling about watching obviously computer-generated ships weave around lethargically for 20 minutes before anything of note happens. That's something else I've noticed about filmmaking in general, not just Star Wars. CGI has allowed them to do so much they've forgetting any measure of subtlety. All the eye candy is nice, but I'd like some cake with my icing, thanks.
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Narsil
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Subtlety isn't the icing on the cake per se but it's more like hiding some icing under several layers of cake that is itself coated with the icing of CGI or special effects. And that's sort of why I've been liking Doctor Who a hell of a lot more than Star Trek and Star Wars because if it can get away with being subtle, it will do. This is, of course, immensely ironic for a programme that has a millennia-old Time Lord protagonist with a ship that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside, who can travel to any conceivable point in the time-space continuum, frequently does so and happens to earn the reputation of the most terrifying thing in the universe to go up against.
But it does subtle, nuanced and dramatic rather well, due to decent character writing and some brilliant acting. Perhaps Star Trek would benefit from taking a few leafs from Doctor Who in that area rather than just ripping off the Cybermen, making them a little more obviously biological in nature and calling them the Borg.
But it does subtle, nuanced and dramatic rather well, due to decent character writing and some brilliant acting. Perhaps Star Trek would benefit from taking a few leafs from Doctor Who in that area rather than just ripping off the Cybermen, making them a little more obviously biological in nature and calling them the Borg.
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The Borg were not made because of the Cybermen, they were made up at the last minute to replace the bug race due to budget reasons. Teh assimilation thing came in later so they could turn a well known hero into the crew's worst nightmare.Narsil wrote:Subtlety isn't the icing on the cake per se but it's more like hiding some icing under several layers of cake that is itself coated with the icing of CGI or special effects. And that's sort of why I've been liking Doctor Who a hell of a lot more than Star Trek and Star Wars because if it can get away with being subtle, it will do. This is, of course, immensely ironic for a programme that has a millennia-old Time Lord protagonist with a ship that's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside, who can travel to any conceivable point in the time-space continuum, frequently does so and happens to earn the reputation of the most terrifying thing in the universe to go up against.
But it does subtle, nuanced and dramatic rather well, due to decent character writing and some brilliant acting. Perhaps Star Trek would benefit from taking a few leafs from Doctor Who in that area rather than just ripping off the Cybermen, making them a little more obviously biological in nature and calling them the Borg.
Despite some similarities, the Borg were not intentionally riped from the Cybermen.
- Praeothmin
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I haven't watched Doctor Who enough to pronounce myself on the writing, but as far as the acting is concerned, I really don't recall anything brilliant about it.Narsil wrote:due to decent character writing and some brilliant acting.
I've been witness to three different incarnations of the Doctor up to know, and I've yet to be impressed by the acting.
Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad at all, the older Doctors were even, IMO, pretty good.
But they, in no way, distinguished themselves from the acting in Star Trek.
- Mr. Oragahn
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I really like what I've seen about the tenth doc.Praeothmin wrote:I haven't watched Doctor Who enough to pronounce myself on the writing, but as far as the acting is concerned, I really don't recall anything brilliant about it.Narsil wrote:due to decent character writing and some brilliant acting.
I've been witness to three different incarnations of the Doctor up to know, and I've yet to be impressed by the acting.
Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad at all, the older Doctors were even, IMO, pretty good.
But they, in no way, distinguished themselves from the acting in Star Trek.
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Until Doctor Jones came along.Mr. Oragahn wrote:I really like what I've seen about the tenth doc.Praeothmin wrote:I haven't watched Doctor Who enough to pronounce myself on the writing, but as far as the acting is concerned, I really don't recall anything brilliant about it.Narsil wrote:due to decent character writing and some brilliant acting.
I've been witness to three different incarnations of the Doctor up to know, and I've yet to be impressed by the acting.
Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad at all, the older Doctors were even, IMO, pretty good.
But they, in no way, distinguished themselves from the acting in Star Trek.
I mean, my God, how many times do we have to hear the "He's like fire and ice and I think I'm in love" speech? And don't even get me started about the Doctor's Daughter, which was not only somewhat misleading (as in, the one from the early series), but completely wasted the whole bloody episode with a horribly predictable ending (if the Doctor says you can come along before you reach the last few minutes of the episode, you are going to die), and then destroyed the meaning of that ending by bringing her back.
And since when the hell was Jones an expert on Time Lord biology?Oo
