The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

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359
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The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

Post by 359 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:20 am

Some material got me thinking on the subject of the force and its propagation through space. Specifically for the parameters of this hypothetical assume that we are doing some basic cross-over between Star Trek and Star Wars. Now there are two baseline setups I want to present:

1)Scenario One: Pre-existing at time of contact:
That the force is already present as an untapped property of the Star Trek galaxy at the time of the introduction of the Star Wars galaxy either via wormhole or undefined spacial intersection (or some form of boolean operation).

2)Scenario Two: Non-existant at time of contact:
The force simply does not exist as a property within the Star Trek galaxy. It must propagate to within that space in order to exist.


The prompts for discussion are simple: in either situation, how does the intersection of the two universes affect the civilizations of each galaxy? Do force users eventually come to be born within the Milky-way? Over what period? By what method/how fast does the Force propagate into the Milky-way? How does this "migration" of force effect the inhabitants of the Star Wars galaxy? How does the spread of midichlorians as a symbiont progress in the Milky-way? Or any other questions that come to mind...


And most importantly: have fun mulling over this tasty mental exercise! I know I certainly am.

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2046
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Re: The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

Post by 2046 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:16 pm

No Graham Kennedy "Portal" option where Milky Way folks are transparent to it? ;-)

Just jumping off from the ideas generally, one could posit that the existence of midichlorians implies a course of evolution that taps in to the utility of an existing property, like eyes evolving from simple photosensitive cells to tap in to the wonderfully informative world of reflected light.

And, just as humans in Trek are scarcely able to do anything psionic, other species have tapped in to that much better. Humans are fairly blind in that regard.

I have jokingly speculated before that there is evidence of some Force tapping in the Milky Way, but we could take this further and presume that a Force-blind species like the Progenitors might have, by their seeding, precluded the evolution of Force-aware life, just as surely as a blind species seeding their DNA might've interfered with the evolution of sight.

But, as far as whether scenario one or two is preferred otherwise, more analysis of TCW6's weird Yoda arc is needed.

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Re: The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:36 pm

Generally, it's better to assume that they're present in parallelal fashion, and that perhaps even complementary but such link remaining undiscovered.

If we consider the ... sorry... the midichorians to be necessary for interacting with the Force... then their utter absence in the MilkyWay would prove that whatever kind of magic was accomplished in Star Trek was the fruit of something else.

Now, midichlorians being a lifeform that has a bond to the Force is most interesting.
They're found in the blood, and blood vessels irrigate the bodies, from muscles to brain.
Perhaps they're some kind of a local hivemind within an individual, those within the brain understanding the wills of the users and transmitting orders to the entire collective within the body.

It's been asked before if it could be possible to grow midichlorians outside of the bodies of their bearers.
It does not seem to have been done in SW, perhaps like if the midichlorians had some kind of natural barrier against those unnatural acts.

Now, if the Force cometh into the Star Trek universe, it would have no reason not to produce the same effects.
For one, it seems it was able to generate a vergence of power which brought life into the womb of a woman.
That is most bizarre and honestly, the most annoying part of Anakin's genesis.
We'd have to suppose the Force had been capable of picking Shmi's DNA, sort of dissect it and recompose it so the newborn wouldn't be a clone, yet carry the genetic heritage of his mother.
Then, out of nowhere, the Force would have also triggered the appearance of midichlorians.
Unless midichlorians, or a sleeping form of them, exist within all species in small quantities, and the Force's influence woke them up to their full potential and had them multiply.

Sciencey!

That stuff could happen in Trekverse too.

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Re: The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

Post by Lucky » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:14 am

Star Trek
The Child wrote: TROI: He is a life force entity. When we passed each other in space, he was curious about us, so he decided the best way to learn was to go through the process. To be born, to live as one of us and in that way to understand us. He never meant any harm.
Cathexis wrote: EMH: They've each taken a blast to the head by some kind of energy discharge. Cardiostimulator. Mister Tuvok has a serious concussion, but it's nothing I can't handle. As for Commander Chakotay, all of the bioneural energy has been extracted from his brain.
_-_-_-_-_-_

JANEWAY: Did it work?


EMH: It appears so. Commander. Can you hear me?


CHAKOTAY: Yes. I'm a little dizzy, but I think I'm all here.


TORRES: How did you manage to reintegrate his consciousness?


EMH: It involved three neural transceivers, two cortical stimulators and fifty gigaquads of computer memory. I would be happy to take you through the process, but it would take at least ten hours to explain it all to you. Needless to say, it was a remarkable procedure. I would consider writing a paper about it if there were a convenient forum in which to publish it.


(Janeway puts her hands on Chakotay's bare shoulder.) 


JANEWAY: What happened, Commander?


CHAKOTAY: After the attack on the shuttle, I had the sensation of floating above my own body. I thought I was dead.


JANEWAY: And when the shuttle returned to Voyager you were still disembodied?


CHAKOTAY: Yes. I couldn't speak, I couldn't touch anything. But then I found if I concentrated on someone who was in the room with me, I could share their consciousness. At first I could only do little things with the host's body. Push buttons, work a console. As time went on, it became easier to do more. I'm sorry I had to knock you around, Tuvok.


TUVOK: No apology is necessary.


JANEWAY: Good job, Commander, and welcome back.


CHAKOTAY: To be honest, I feel like I never left.
Time's Arrow Part Two wrote: RIKER: (dressed as a policeman) The coroner said this is where they kept all the cholera victims. 


CRUSHER: (taking tricorder scans) It doesn't make sense that so many people are dying of cholera. It just isn't that virulent. Will, this is strange. 


RIKER: What is it? 


CRUSHER: The cerebellum, the cerebral cortex, the brain stem, the entire nervous system has been depleted of electrochemical energy. Here's another one. Same neural depletion. These people did not die of cholera. They died because their neural energy was drained somehow. 


RIKER: Drained and taken to Devidia Two for those aliens to ingest? If you were a time traveller with a taste for human neural energy where would you get your supply? 


CRUSHER: I would travel back to a time when there were plagues and epidemics, so I could murder and use disease as a cover.
Our Man Bashir wrote: EDDINGTON: The holosuite is specifically designed to store highly complex energy patterns. The computer's processing their physical patterns as if they were holosuite characters. Trouble is, I'm not reading any neural energy. 


ROM: Neural energy has to be stored at the quantum level. The holosuite can't handle that. 


ODO: So if their physical bodies are stored here, where are their brain patterns? 


QUARK: Everywhere else. Their brain patterns are so large that they're taking up every bit of computer memory on the station. Replicator memory, weapons, life supports. 


ODO: He may be right. So what do we do about it? How do we get them back?
Fury wrote: TUVOK: I've located Kes. She's moving through those sections. She's giving off high levels of neurogenic energy.
Psionic Technology in Star Trek
The Muse wrote: O'BRIEN: I'm picking up concentrated traces of some sort of psionic energy on the bulkhead. 


BASHIR: The tests I ran indicated that Jake's mental activity was stimulated by some kind of psionic phenomenon, possibly telepathic in nature. 


SISKO: Then this entity Nurse Tagana saw could have been responsible. 


BASHIR: We have to find it, then get Jake back in the neural stabilisation field before it's too late. 


O'BRIEN: I'll tell Odo to have his search parties reconfigure their tricorders to scan for psionic energy. 


BASHIR: That'll help, but only for a while. Psionic residue decays within minutes. 


SISKO: Then we'd better get moving.
Persistence Of Vision wrote: TORRES: People are becoming delusional. 


JANEWAY [OC]: It's happening her too. 


TORRES: I think I know why. There's a massive energy field coming from those ships. It's bioelectric, modulating on a delta wave frequency. It has psionic properties, and it's permeating the hull.


[Bridge]


JANEWAY: A psionic field has a psychoactive effect. That would explain the hallucinations. 


TORRES [OC]: You can try remodulating


[Engineering]


TORRES: The shields, but in the meantime, I'm going to set up a resonance burst from the warp core. That will probably block the field, but it'll take a while to set up.
Metamorphosis wrote: (Spock is working on the Universal Translator. It is basically a metal tube nearly a foot long, that can be held in the hand.) 


COCHRANE: What's the theory behind this device? 


KIRK: There are certain universal ideas and concepts common to all intelligent life. This device instantaneously compares the frequency of brainwave patterns, selects those ideas and concepts it recognises, and then provides the necessary grammar. 


SPOCK: Then it translates its findings into English. 


COCHRANE: You mean it speaks? 


KIRK: With a voice or the approximation of whatever the creature is on the sending end. Not one hundred percent efficient, but nothing ever is. Ready, Mister Spock? 


SPOCK: Quite ready, Captain. 


KIRK: Mister Cochrane, call the Companion.
Gambit Part 2 wrote: PICARD: The Stone of Gol! 


TALLERA: You know of it? 


PICARD: I know the story from Vulcan mythology. 


TALLERA: The Stone of Gol is real, but there is nothing supernatural or magical about it. It is a psionic resonator, a device which focuses and amplifies telepathic energy. It is one of the most devastating weapons ever conceived. 


PICARD: But according to the legend, the Stone was destroyed by the gods when the Vulcan people found the way to peace. 


TALLERA: The resonator was believed to have been destroyed during the Time of the Awakening. Only one piece is known to have survived and it was placed in a Vulcan museum under heavy guard. A year ago, that piece was stolen from the museum. Soon after, mercenary ships began raiding archaeological sites across the quadrant. We believe a member of the isolationist movement is attempting to reassemble the resonator. 


PICARD: A telepathic weapon. 


TALLERA: My orders are to find that assassin and stop him. 


PICARD: It would seem that Baran has to deliver these artefacts to the assassin in order to get paid. Therefore, you and I should continue our masquerade. 


TALLERA: Agreed. But Captain, I cannot allow the resonator to be assembled. If necessary, I will destroy this ship, its crew, all of us to prevent that from happening.
TNG: Time's Arrow Part 2 wrote: CRUSHER: The cerebellum, the cerebral cortex, the brain stem, the entire nervous system has been depleted of electrochemical energy. Here's another one. Same neural depletion. These people did not die of cholera. They died because their neural energy was drained somehow. 


RIKER: Drained and taken to Devidia Two for those aliens to ingest? If you were a time traveller with a taste for human neural energy where would you get your supply? 


CRUSHER: I would travel back to a time when there were plagues and epidemics, so I could murder and use disease as a cover.

[Rented room]

(all the away team are in period costume) 

CRUSHER: Over half the victims whose neural energy had been drained came from the Sisters of Hope Infirmary. 


RIKER: A charity hospital near the waterfront.
DS9: Our Man Bashir wrote: EDDINGTON: The holosuite is specifically designed to store highly complex energy patterns. The computer's processing their physical patterns as if they were holosuite characters. Trouble is, I'm not reading any neural energy. 


ROM: Neural energy has to be stored at the quantum level. The holosuite can't handle that. 


ODO: So if their physical bodies are stored here, where are their brain patterns? 


QUARK: Everywhere else. Their brain patterns are so large that they're taking up every bit of computer memory on the station. Replicator memory, weapons, life supports. 


ODO: He may be right. So what do we do about it? How do we get them back?

-=-=-=-=-=-

EDDINGTON: From what we can tell, Quark was right. The computer has stored the neural energy patterns of everyone on the runabout throughout the entire station. 


QUARK: Don't everyone thank me at once. 


ROM: What we need to do is re-integrate their neural patterns with their physical patterns from the holosuite and rematerialise them. 


EDDINGTON: I say we use the Defiant. Its power systems and computers are independent of the station and it has its own transporter. 


ROM: Sounds good. Except 


EDDINGTON: Except what? 


ROM: Well, my equipment isn't designed to interface with Starfleet systems. I may have to make some modifications.

-=-=-=-=-=-

ROM: Rom to Ops. I'm ready. You can start transferring the neural energy to the Defiant. 


ODO [OC]: Acknowledged.
Voy: Fury wrote: TUVOK: I've located Kes. She's moving through those sections. She's giving off high levels of neurogenic energy.
Franchise: Star Trek Series: Deep Space Nine Season: 4 Episode: 21 Title: The Muse wrote: O'BRIEN: I'm picking up concentrated traces of some sort of psionic energy on the bulkhead. 


BASHIR: The tests I ran indicated that Jake's mental activity was stimulated by some kind of psionic phenomenon, possibly telepathic in nature. 


SISKO: Then this entity Nurse Tagana saw could have been responsible. 


BASHIR: We have to find it, then get Jake back in the neural stabilisation field before it's too late. 


O'BRIEN: I'll tell Odo to have his search parties reconfigure their tricorders to scan for psionic energy. 


BASHIR: That'll help, but only for a while. Psionic residue decays within minutes.

Star Wars
http://www.starwars.com/databank/force-planet wrote: FORCE PLANET
Not marked on any star map and not recognized with any specific name, the Force planet is a mystical world and the foundation of life itself. It is the birthplace of the midi-chlorians, microscopic organisms that connect the living Force to the cosmic Force. Surrounded by a bright nebula, the Force planet is a barren place, featuring only luminescent geysers that shoot energy from deep within the world. Several islands hover above the surface, each teeming with plant life and strong with the Force.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/force-planet wrote: FALL OF THE REPUBLIC
Yoda, on a journey of self-discovery and training, traveled to the Force planet under the guidance of Qui-Gon Jinn. There, the Jedi Master found the five Force priestesses who began his education in spiritual immortality, making Yoda face a dark side version of himself and encounter visions of elusive truths.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html wrote: QUI-GON : (Cont'd) Obi-Wan...


OBI-WAN : Yes, Master.


QUI-GON : Make an analysis of this blood sample I'm sending you.


OBI-WAN : Wait a minute...


QUI-GON : I need a midi-chlorian count.


OBI-WAN : All right. I've got it.


QUI-GON : What are your readings?


OBI-WAN : Something must be wrong with the transmission.


QUI-GON : Here's a signal check.


OBI-WAN : Strange. The transmission seems to be in good order, but the
reading's off the chart...over twenty thousand.


QUI-GON : (almost to himself) That's it then.


OBI-WAN : Even Master Yoda doesn't have a midi-chlorian count that high!


QUI-GON : No Jedi has.


OBI-WAN : What does it mean?


QUI-GON : I'm not sure.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html wrote: YODA : (Cont'd) Master Qui-Gon more to say have you?


QUI-GON : With your permission, my Master. I have encountered a vergence in the Force.


YODA : A vergence, you say?


MACE WINDU : Located around a person?


QUI-GON : A boy... his cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have seen in a life form. It is possible he was conceived by the midi-chlorians.


MACE WINDU : You're referring to the prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the Force...you believe it's this boy??


QUI-GON : I don't pressume...


YODA : But you do! Rrevealed your opinion is.


QUI-GON : I request the boy be tested.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html wrote: YODA : ...Correct you were, Qui-Gon.


MACE WINDU : His cells contain a high concentration of midi-chlorians.


KI-ADI : The Force is strong with him.


QUI-GON : He's to be trained, then.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html wrote: ANAKIN : Master, sir...I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians?


QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all living cells and communicates with the Force.


ANAKIN : They live inside of me?


QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi chlorians.


ANAKIN : Symbionts?


QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.


ANAKIN : They do??


QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you.


ANAKIN : I don't understand.


QUI-GON : With time and training, Annie...you will.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Empire-Strikes-Back.html wrote: YODA: And well you should not. For my ally in the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we... (Yoda pinches Luke's shoulder) ... not this crude matter. (a sweeping gesture) You must feel the Force around you. (gesturing) Here, between you... me... the tree... the rock... everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship!
My Conclusion
1) Scenario One
Star Trek life would need to be rather different from Star Wars life in order to exist, and until midi-chlorians start entering the cell structures of the Star Trek life forms, many Force Powers will often not work right.

2) Scenario Two
The Force user loses almost all their powers at best, and leaving The Force might kill some one from Star wars.


As far as I can tell, Star Trek seems to lack a Force analog. Force like powers in Star Trek appear to be a well understood and internal thing, but the Force powers tend to draw in a universal energy field

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2046
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Re: The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

Post by 2046 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:14 pm

Actually, the TCW6 Yoda arc has the crazy spinny chicks saying:
Disappoint us not, little green one.
What is this place? All that surrounds us is the foundation of life, the birthplace of what your science calls midi-chlorians, the foundation of what connects the Living Force and the Cosmic Force.
When a living thing dies, all is removed.
Life passes from the Living Force into the Cosmic Force and becomes one with it.
One powers the other.
One is renewed by the other.
http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk ... ode=s06e12

So one could suggest Trek is limited to the Living Force. Or something.

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Re: The Force in the Star Trek galaxy

Post by Lucky » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:16 am

2046 wrote: Actually, the TCW6 Yoda arc has the crazy spinny chicks saying:
http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=star-wars-the-clone-wars&episode=s06e12 wrote: Disappoint us not, little green one.
What is this place? All that surrounds us is the foundation of life, the birthplace of what your science calls midi-chlorians, the foundation of what connects the Living Force and the Cosmic Force.
When a living thing dies, all is removed.
Life passes from the Living Force into the Cosmic Force and becomes one with it.
One powers the other.
One is renewed by the other.
So one could suggest Trek is limited to the Living Force. Or something.
That quote seems to be stating that the Living Force and the Cosmic Force are two parts of a greater whole, and while you might be able to have a Cosmic Force without a Living Force, you can't have a Living Force without the Cosmic Force.



I just don't see the cosmologies as compatible, and Star Trek surpassingly covers the afterlife in rather startling detail.

TNG
Tapestry 6 X 15
(Q meets Picard in the afterlife claims to be GOD)
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try018.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try019.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try020.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try021.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try022.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try023.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try024.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... try025.jpg

DS9
Extreme Measures 7 X 23
(O'Brian and Bashir see the same light that Picard meets Q in when they are poking around a dead/dying mans head to find a cure for Odo)
http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... es_423.jpg


Voy
Barge of the Dead 6 X 3
(Sto-vo-kor: Home for the dead honorable warriors)
(Gre'thor: Home for the dead dishonorable warriors)
(B'lonna Torres seems to travel to and save her mother from going to or being stuck in Gre'thor)

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