Diburnium Density vs. Phasers

[Mike DiCenso]

Oof... that just sounds... so wrong in many ways, DS. Very wrong.

Anyway, I don't see it necessarily being a problem that a hand phaser could raise the temperature of an object up to 8,000 C since in "The Vengeance Factor" they did vaporize the noranium which was stated to vaporize at around 2,314 C. A difference of only 3.45 times, and that was on a phaser set to setting seven as the dialog confirms:

RIKER: Data, tell me about noranium. It vaporises at?

DATA: Two thousand three hundred fourteen degrees. Of course, noranium carbide

RIKER: Thank you, Data.

LAFORGE: Setting seven ought to do it.

So close to mid-range for the TNG-era phaser settings (canonically established to be 16 settings maximum).

And let's not forget what an insanely incredible feat of engineering the Kalandan outpost is.... an artificial planet the diameter of the Earth's own Moon (3474 km), but with the Earth's mass. That's a feat that utterly dwarfs even the Saxtonian 900 km Death Star 2 by 57 to 1 in volume! I don't even want to think about the mass difference.
-Mike

[Darth Spock]

Dunno. Sounds like he might have something to do with flat tires, price cuts or bowels movements.

Oof... that just sounds... so wrong in many ways, DS. Very wrong.

What? It fits, it's fun, and it rhymes with Vader! And isn't he the guy fighting the undead hordes of zombie inflationism? Or is there some double meaning there I'm not aware of? Aw, crap, now you have me worried I've said something really stupid....

Anyway, I don't see it necessarily being a problem that a hand phaser could raise the temperature of an object up to 8,000 C since in "The Vengeance Factor" they did vaporize the noranium which was stated to vaporize at around 2,314 C. A difference of only 3.45 times, and that was on a phaser set to setting seven as the dialog confirms:

RIKER: Data, tell me about noranium. It vaporises at?

DATA: Two thousand three hundred fourteen degrees. Of course, noranium carbide

RIKER: Thank you, Data.

LAFORGE: Setting seven ought to do it.

So close to mid-range for the TNG-era phaser settings (canonically established to be 16 settings maximum).

And let's not forget what an insanely incredible feat of engineering the Kalandan outpost is.... an artificial planet the diameter of the Earth's own Moon (3474 km), but with the Earth's mass. That's a feat that utterly dwarfs even the Saxtonian 900 km Death Star 2 by 57 to 1 in volume! I don't even want to think about the mass difference.
-Mike

My sentiments exactly. Really, 8000 degrees doesn't sound that ridiculous for Trek tech. After all, it doesn't mean the whole volume of the grave is supposed to be that hot. If the beam setting in question would normally be associated with that temperature range, but failed to even smudge the surface of the red rock, I could see that garnering a remark such as we heard.

[2046]

Actually I figure that just as Vader and Sidious work nicely with a preceding "In-", so too should one of our inflationist friends be christened Darth Flater. Flatulence jokes to follow ...

I also concur that 8000 is most likely reachable, but for the purposes of debate where every figure is fought tooth and nail, I don't expect it to simply be accepted.

[Darth Spock]

Darth Commodious enters, prompting Darth Flater to kneel. "What is thy bidding my master?" The hooded figure pauses before offering his response. "We must enlarge our vessels, more guns, more armor, more gas. Blow them up, all of them!"
"It will be done my master." *Grumble....BwwoooOOOOOOooooot* Darth Commodious wheezed before rasping "Not in here you fool!" Darth Flater hesitated, finally saying "Forgive me my lord, it will dissipate quickly... Just don't ignite your lightsaber for a few minutes."

Back on topic, I see your point, dropping the estimate a few notches gives a better margin of error, and should save haggling time in the long run.

[Mike DiCenso]

My sentiments exactly. Really, 8000 degrees doesn't sound that ridiculous for Trek tech. After all, it doesn't mean the whole volume of the grave is supposed to be that hot. If the beam setting in question would normally be associated with that temperature range, but failed to even smudge the surface of the red rock, I could see that garnering a remark such as we heard.

Watch the scene here starting at 14:30. Not only do we see the huge clouds of smoke that billow up each time as about a square meter of topsoil is vaporized, but you can briefly see some flame each time in the close up shots. So there are at least secondarily some DET effects. Given the size of the base of the column of smoke I'd say Kirk's goal was not to try and blast out a 10 cubic meter grave in one shot, but maybe a meter or two each shot to make it a clean grave, and not send any chunks of heated rock flying all over.
-Mike

[2046]

Actually, if you look closely, the holes are rectangular. But, compared to nearby footprints, I don't think the rectangles are quite big enough to be grave-sized. Close, though ... 4 or 5 feet long and around 2 wide.

[Mike DiCenso]

I never said that Kirk was attempting to dig a full out grave in one shot, especially since attempting to do so under normal conditions would likely send a lot of bedrock and soil flying in an explosion. Sort of like what happened when Kirk in WNMHGB blasted the rock cliff face with the phaser rifle shot. So that sort of thing is possible, but given the secondary blast effects, digging a full grave with a single shot or two isn't practical.
-Mike

[2046]

Oh, I was agreeing with you. I'd noticed the rectangle and thought it was a full grave at first when writing the initial post (along with the minor bits of off-axis fire), but you are quite correct. The rectangle-ishness is probably happenstance, in-universe, especially since Kirk hit a corner of it.

[Lucky]

Whoa, I haven't examined a phaser figure like this in a long time...

Nice catch!

Also: Since he quotes the melting point at 8,000 and we can therefore assume TOS hand phasers put out less than that figure... we end up somewhere at double the melting point of Tungsten.

This could go a long way to explain why the hull of a Galaxy class was able to withstand to survive 12,000 degrees Celsius.

... still whoa... that's um... This makes the whole 'phasers not setting everyone on fire nearby' thing that much more odd.

I'd say the writers kind of implied there was some sort of shielding involved to contain the phaser beam

A Matter of Time
DATA: There were no errors, Geordi. The variance must be no more than point zero six terawatts.


Extreme Risk
http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbna ... 33&page=13
TORRES: Patching a hole before it opens. 

KIM: That'll never hold. 

TORRES: It'll hold a minute or two, and with any luck that's all we need. Seven, take over here. I need an EPS relay. 

KIM: Er, there's one in the transporter control circuitry. 

SEVEN: The panel is sealed. 

TORRES: Good. Get away from it. 

(She attaches the relay to a device she has taken from a locker.)

TORRES: I need a phaser.

(Kim throws one to her. She plugs it into the device as the repair starts to buckle. Then she turns the phaser on and adjusts the EPS relay power feed.)

TORRES:  Watch out. I don't know if this is going to work. 

(She creates a forcefield across the area of the microfractures. When the hull breaches, the ship is still safe.)

KIM: Glad you decided to come along.

Then you have Spock nearly die in Omega Glory when he was to close to the thing the phaser hit implying that there is dangerous radiation released, but the square cube law makes it safe after only a short distance.