Technical Notes from Rebels

[359]

One of the interesting things of note in Star Wars: Rebels is how often we see clear technical information. For example Tie fighter firepower being demonstrated against mundane materials, like dirt. So to that end I have created a grouping of what I initially noticed, and still remember from the first three episodes and the shorts.


Offense:

Tie Fighter:
1)A solid hit from a Tie can destroy a speeder bike leaving a pile of burning (fuel?) metal.
2)Tie hits against concrete-like pavement hurl fragments in an explosion initially ≈0.5 meters across.
3)Tie strikes against grassy earth at a shallow angle leave significant gashes about 2 meters long, spraying dirt and debris across several meters in the process.
4)Repeated Tie strikes against the Ghost's shields are not terribly significant over an extended period.

Speeder:
1)can not penetrate imperial transport crate with blasters.
2)Causes insignificant damage by shooting other bike.

Walker (AT-DP by starwars.com label):
1)Creates significant explosion on impact with dirt and rock.

Troop Transport (Ground):
1)Turret will blow the side off of a dome style farm house similar to those found on Tatooine.
2)turret should easily down a Tie.

Blaster:
1)Can penetrate Tie hull near fuel tank.
2)Specific disruptor rifles said to be able to take down a ship, and seen to take down a walker (AT-DP) with one shot. Implied to be extremely inhumane against flesh targets. Banned by the senate.
3)Won't guarantee a kill on a Wookiee.


Defense:

Tie Fighter:
1)Is not shielded, by statement and observation.
2)Hull is (probably rarely) penetrable by blaster fire, i.e. not intentionally armored.

Speeder:
1)resists blaster fire.
2)resists its own blaster fire.

Walker (AT-DP):
1)Impervious to blaster pistol fire.

Troop Transport (Ground):
1)Armor shrugs off Tie fire with ease.

Personnel:
1)Stormtrooper armor dissipates Ezra's stun shots.
2)Callus' chest armor will protect him from direct blaster hits.


Power Systems:
1)Ties run off of some liquid fuel which is quite combustable.
2)Whatever powers a speeder also explodes.
3)when several crates of disruptors have their power cells breached it creates a sizable explosion. One crate takes down a AT-DP walker.


Accelerations:
1)Fleeing from four Ties the Ghost takes 2:30 of on screen time to get into low orbit (blue tint is still visible from cockpit view of space).

[Firmus Piett]

Firepower

Vehicles
The firepower examples are relatively inline with what I expected. The duel cannon on the transport blows up half a bungalow, or small house, and it's about the same size as the weapons mounted on AT ST's, but much smaller than dedicated tank turrets.

My guess is it would be something similar, perhaps a little heavier, than the turret mounted on the flash speeder in APM, which busts through an AAT's thick frontal armour resulting in a reasonable explosion taking out (killing) several droids (and yes, those guys should have died in Rebels).

Heavier turrets are much more powerful. In one episode of TCW a single shot from an AAT blasts a massive hole into some massive blast doors; the hole was something like 5 by 10 meters iirc. There was some tearing, but most of the metal that had composed the doors was simply gone; the total volume of metal destroyed in a single shot would have measured tens of tons. In another episode another AAT blasts a skyscraper, resulting in >10 m wide fireball and the collapse of the skyscraper. Both instances represent firepower far beyond anything a modern tank turret could achieve, the primary damage (that done to the target) is literally thousands of times greater than what modern tanks inflict, but the secondary, or AOE, effects are limited, despite the immense damages done to the targets stricken.

Blasters
Typical 'kill shots' doing their thing, nothing new. We haven't had any examples of high powered blasting from the blasters yet in this show.

Accelerations
I'm always somewhat skeptical about using fleeing scenes to establish upper limits, especially when there are examples of faster transit. There's another example which is similar though, involving Umbaraan fighters in TCW. Still immense though.

[Firmus Piett]

Troop Transport (Ground):
1)Armor shrugs off Tie fire with ease.

If the firepower so far demonstrated represents the upper limit of TIE fighter firepower then I'd fully expect armoured vehicles to tank it; hell, the superficial scorching wasn't much greater than what blasters have inflicted in the past, albeit on other armoured vehicles.

I noticed there was no explosive effects when the TIE's bolts struck the vehicles. I suppose it's possible Zeb dialed down the firepower because of the boy, but then he could have taken out the others with the bigger shots. I suppose being energy weapons, though, if they fail to violently vaporize some sum of matter then the explosions will be much more limited. The armour may also be superconductive.

[359]

With regard to vehicle firepower I definitely agree, the higher yields are interestingly consistent with being able to completely shatter and obliterate a couple tons of material.

I'm always somewhat skeptical about using fleeing scenes to establish upper limits, especially when there are examples of faster transit. There's another example which is similar though, involving Umbaraan fighters in TCW. Still immense though.

First, I'm unaware of any higher concrete examples, intact being relatively concrete is what is special about this one. Second, why would fleeing from fighters chasing from behind be any slower than normal speeds? If there is any difference I would think it would be faster, as one needs to get away as soon as possible. And jumping to hyperspace (escaping) seems to require being in orbit. So it seems reasonable to say that fleeing makes for an excellent upper limit as we know that they are definitely trying to break orbit as quick as possible in order to get away, you know... alive.

In the Clone Wars episode we know that the ships can see space after 40 seconds of limbing, but they are definitely still well within the atmosphere as the sky is not black and there are still clouds above them, and above the entire "space" battle. And from the opening crawl in TCW: "Darkness on Umbara" we see that it is nice and clear around the planet as always, so that was definitely still in atmosphere after 0:40 on screen of climbing.

if this were earth, the highest clouds are around 14 km, which would make this a climbing rate of 0.35 km/s. But I wouldn't be too surprised if clouds were a little higher on Umbara, it should be renowned for the things and given a metal for excelling in cloud cover.

The Rebels episode has the Ghost climbing at a rate of ≤ 0.6 km/s. Both of these velocities are in line with how we see fighters zipping past star destroyers.

If the firepower so far demonstrated represents the upper limit of TIE fighter firepower then I'd fully expect armoured vehicles to tank it; hell, the superficial scorching wasn't much greater than what blasters have inflicted in the past, albeit on other armoured vehicles.

The Tie did a little more than superficial scorch marks by the looks of it, but not too much more, just not quite as little as nothing. But yes, with the demonstrated firepower I wouldn't expect it to do much to heavily armored vehicles either see AT-AT).

[2046]

What's most amazing is that TIEs are evidently capable of impressive accuracy, what with Zeb shooting around Bridger at close range, but that it is commonly not observed. (We've already seen Rebels do a repeat of the scene of TIEs sideslipping behind the Falcon, firing and missing.)

As for firepower, the obvious results inasmuch as target destruction and flames are in line with reasonable expectations . . . the Kenner-toy-based troop transport (a nice touch!) probably had some of the biggest kaboom yet seen.

However, Rebels is strongly employing the Hollywood technique of having people yanked away from explosions. Inflationary sorts can try to use that to proclaim massive blast . . . but they'll have to explain the lack of related blast effects like dust and other ground-level object disruptions. In one instance, troopers were blasted away from an exploding TIE but local tent-like structures were unmoved. That's just odd, unless you presume the troopers and other folks have weight equal to an umbrella.

If it continues, as it presumably will since it seems Disney is trying to avoid outright deaths, I would think that some sort of rationalization will have to be employed.

[Mike DiCenso]

First, I'm unaware of any higher concrete examples, intact being relatively concrete is what is special about this one.

There aren't any. The most interesting thing I've always found is the TIE fighter laser bolts hitting an outcrop of rock on the surface of the large asteroid. Watch here at 3:04 to 3:09. The impacts do no shattering, just send small red sparkles about that quickly disappear within a second. That and the Rebel's example constrain TIE firepower to a few megajoules at best.
-Mike

[359]

New from Star Wars Rebels: "Rise of the Old Masters":

Blasters:
1)Zeb's bow-rifle strikes an anti-air turret resulting in a small explosion followed shortly by an explosion that destroys the turret.

Vehicles:
1)The Ghost has a smaller detachable craft. That craft's forward guns blast through Tie fighters resulting in their destruction, but not always their explosion. This seems to be the Ghost's aft gun.

Explosives:
1)Thermal detonators are used to both kill everyone near and in a turbo lift and destroy a cell door from the inside without killing everyone inside the cell. This suggests a variable yield.

ECM:
1)Sabine was able to set up a jamming signal that totally prevented an imperial prison facilities sensors from detecting the small ship they were using. This was using a mundane frequency that animals can respond to.

[SpacePaladin]

We also hear about a planet having been liberated by the "Base-Delta-Zero Initiative".

However, we don't know anything about this. A planet that's been BDZ'd by the EU defition wouldn't be in any state to be liberated, but we're dealing with the Imperial propaganda machine, so we might be dealing with this definition of liberation, and that's assuming the BDZ Initiative isn't akin to the EU Tarkin Doctrine, where the mere threat of killing everyone on the surface is enough to cow would be rebellions.

[359]

We also hear about a planet having been liberated by the "Base-Delta-Zero Initiative".

I knew I had forgotten something...

The use of "initiative" makes me think of a political policy more than a method of attack, but that could just be me. And we hear of what could be an Imperial 'liberation' of Lasan, which could be similar to what is covered under the BDZ Initiative. Perhaps we'll learn more later in the series.

[Lucky]

We also hear about a planet having been liberated by the "Base-Delta-Zero Initiative".

However, we don't know anything about this. A planet that's been BDZ'd by the EU defition wouldn't be in any state to be liberated, but we're dealing with the Imperial propaganda machine, so we might be dealing with this definition of liberation, and that's assuming the BDZ Initiative isn't akin to the EU Tarkin Doctrine, where the mere threat of killing everyone on the surface is enough to cow would be rebellions.

The word "INITIATIVE" would imply something other then what the Legends would call a BDZ.

Definition of INITIATIVE
:  of or relating to initiation :  introductory, preliminary

ini·ti·a·tion noun \i-ˌni-shē-ˈā-shən\
: the process of being formally accepted as a member of a group or organization : the process of being initiated

The Base Delta Zero Initiative sounds like the Empire is annexing smaller governments as wiping out almost all life on a planet is not something you can easily cover up.

[Lucky]

ECM:
1)Sabine was able to set up a jamming signal that totally prevented an imperial prison facilities sensors from detecting the small ship they were using. This was using a mundane frequency that animals can respond to.

???I'm confused, are you saying that sound that should be detectable by the sensors jams the sensors???

[SpacePaladin]

The word "INITIATIVE" would imply something other then what the Legends would call a BDZ

.The Base Delta Zero Initiative sounds like the Empire is annexing smaller governments as wiping out almost all life on a planet is not something you can easily cover up.

Remember, we're hearing about this through the Imperial propaganda machine and we don't actually know what it entails, so it can go both ways.

[359]

???I'm confused, are you saying that sound that should be detectable by the sensors jams the sensors???

Well, we don't know much and I don't think it's sound. But there is some jamming signal, and its frequency is within a range such that it can be perceived by animals and will still mask the ship's approach/existence. Namely we're probably not talking about some exotic/subspace sensor method.

[Lucky]

???I'm confused, are you saying that sound that should be detectable by the sensors jams the sensors???

Well, we don't know much and I don't think it's sound. But there is some jamming signal, and its frequency is within a range such that it can be perceived by animals and will still mask the ship's approach/existence. Namely we're probably not talking about some exotic/subspace sensor method.

That sounds like some real world jamming methods, and bad ECCM. We know Dac was using radar and sonar to detect in coming ships during the Clone Wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_jamm ... _deception

[359]

REB: "Breaking Ranks":

Blasters:
1)Zeb is able to use his bow-rifle to snipe stormtroopers from an unknown range.

Vehicles:
1)The AT-DP takes minimal damage from hits scored by a troop transport. As in a hit to the front of the cabin causes minor damage. Multiple hits to the ankles will fall the walker.
2)A hit from an AT-DP to the rear of the cabin of the AT-DP will destroy the walker.

Ships:
1)The Ghost can withstand multiple hits from transport ships.
2)The acceleration in a hard maneuver by the Ghost results in a couple hundred meter turning radius at about two hundred-ish meters per second. This is around 200 m*s^-2.
3)It takes several minutes for a transport ship to jump to hyperspace.
4)After seconds in hyperspace the Ghost moves out of comm range of Lothal.

Other:
1)We see a reappearance of our friend the Kyber crystal. Apparently this crystal is intended for use as "nothing good" by the empire. And as the crystal and its transport are destroyed we see a familiar blast wave (green) and planar shock come from the crystal's destruction. As a tie fighter is caught in the blast wave it is disintegrated in a similar effect as if it were struck by a phaser beam.