TNG: "Force of Nature":
Riker: "Fleming on long range sensors, approximately zero point three light years away."
Picard: "What's their condition?"
Riker: "The vessel appears to be intact. They have shields, but it looks like their subspace systems are out."
Picard: "Very well."
...
LaForge: "Captain, the engines are back online. All systems are ready."
Picard: "Very good. Helm, lay in a course for the Fleming."
Helm: "Aye, sir."
Riker: "They appear to be in pretty good condition. According to our sensors their shields back to full strength."
Worf: "Captain, the Hekaran ship is moving off. There is one person on board. It is Serova. "
Picard: "Doctor, what is going on?"
Rabal: "I don't know. Captain, may I speak to her?"
Picard: "Mister Worf, open a channel."
Rabal: "Serova, what are you trying to do?"
Serova: "They wanted proof. I'm going to give it to them. I'm sorry."
Data: "Captain, the Hekaran ship's engines are beginning to overload. I believe Serova's attempting to create a warp core breach."
Rabal: "No!"
Riker: "Prepare for impact. Shields at maximum. Full reverse."
Picard: "Report!"
Data: We have cleared the shock wave. However, tetryon flux in the area is increasing rapidly."
...
Data: "I suggest we coast into the rift."
Riker: "Coast?"
Data: "We can initiate a brief, high intensity warp pulse from our current position. We should be able to attain sufficient velocity to enter the rift, beam the crew off the Fleming and exit without using our warp engines."
Riker: "All right, let's say we initiate a full power warp pulse. How much time do we need to drop out of warp?"
Data: "If we field saturate the nacelles, we should be able to sustain warp speed for approximately two minutes."
Riker: "That doesn't give us much time, and it could get pretty rough in there."
Data: "The timing will be critical."
Picard: "Begin your calculations, Mister Data. We'll go as soon as you're ready."
Data: "Aye, sir."
So by 'cheating' they did maintain warp scale FTL velocities through the rupture to a position over 0.3 light-years distant. At impulse the same trip is said to take "weeks," however even at 1 c the journey would take around four months. Which still could be covered under STL if one were to stretch the use of "weeks." So there is a near c and possibly FTL impulse reference within the episode. And they never stated that warp would not function within the rupture, just that the intensity of warp energy generated by the main engines would cause significant further damage. Presumably, if impulse is subspace driven, it would generate far less of an effect. Or alternately it has a subspace component but can still function without it, albeit with reduced performance.
Picard wrote:Then it would imply that impulse is not FTL, or at very least that time dilation should be accounted for?
Time dilation within the context of the episode is moot as they are measuring against an external and objective reference, the time until the transport's shields will fail. And in the case of "Best of Both Worlds" it is not possible given how the time intervals must line up.
2046 wrote:Regarding "Blaze..." . . .
The runabout is seen in the fire fields of the Badlands and soon the bugs are reportedly closing from an AU away. The spiral course thing happens when the bugs are at 0.7 AU . . . we don't see the bugs. Then a commercial break happens and after the coin conversation the bugs are seen in the fire fields and reported as being at half an AU and closing.
They fire on the runabout two minutes later, apparently from beyond visual range given the impulse whatever detonation effect and timing.
The runabout is first confirmed to be in the plasma fields, the Jem'Hadar are noticed and begin closing at a rate of about 1.3c (difference in their speeds, actual velocities are higher).
The runabout attempts evasion by spiraling around one of the plasma filament firenado things, they are still in the plasma field.
Commercial break.
The same Jem'Hadar reappear, seen to be in the plasma fields.
Seconds later they are stated to be 0.5 au away and closing.
Sisko and Eddington discuss plan B, runabout is confirmed to be running on impulse engines and is in the plasma field, 32 seconds later Jem'Hadar are 0.4 au away for a closing speed of 1.6 c.
Sisko begins modifications and the runabout runs into a gas pocket and again into something else.
Jem'Hadar open fire.
Eddington fires up the impulse engines.
Jem'Hadar are hit by a big blast, still inside plasma field.
So both instances are bracketed by ships being confirmed to be inside the no warp zones, the second even more so than the first. And both instances are definitely FTL events. And the second event has no possibility of including warp travel as the impulse engines had no opportunity to be shut down hence the need for such a risky active recalibration. So yes, this event is in fact a solid example of FTL impulse velocities.
2046 wrote:1. The Badlands do have weird firenadoes and other stuff, but areas of the Badlands look boring, too. I have no problem with warp drive there.
Such areas definitely do exist, as
we see around the
maquis planet. But it is highly unlikely that such areas were passed in the 32 and 78 second events, especially the second in which all ships are confirmed to be in the plasma storms before, during, and after the chase.
2046 wrote:2. We don't know how big the fire field area was, but we do know that an impulse flight through the fire field lasting no longer than the episode got them to a clearing with a star and planet.
It seems entirely possible that the bugs could've been outside the fire field when closing from 1 to 0.7 AU, and within the field when we see them at half an AU. After all, when we see the planet from a distance of perhaps dozens to low hundreds of thousands of kilometers, the fire field is dissipating in its direction . . . that is to say, the fire fields have a fairly sharp boundary, astronomically-speaking.
This is quite possible for the first event, although I would say it is heavily implied to not be the case within the episode.
2046 wrote:Regarding BoT, "their power is simple impulse" and "so we can outrun them?" fit together as a limitation of the powerplant (which would itself limit the top speed, as Kirk's question seems designed to confirm).
Given that they obviously had FTL, and that generally speaking FTL involves warp, and that warp drive was in use on Romulan ships before and since, to argue otherwise is to assume what you seek to prove . . . as such, I cannot accept that as an example, either.
Put simply, it seems Scotty missed the singularity somehow, presumably due to effects of the cloak or the high energy weapons or the relayed sensor data being wrong, et cetera.
And modern space ships are lifted into orbit under the power of simple rockets. This is a statement about the propulsion method, nothing is mentioned of the power source be it burning liquid hydrogen-oxygen, antimatter, fusion, singularities, or puppies and kittens. The fact is we are given a comparison between impulse and warp, and warp is faster. But it has nothing to do with the power generation method, their impulse drive could be powered by a singularity for all we know instead of the Federation's fusion reactor setup. I see what you are getting at, but were scotty referring to the power plant driving the propulsion he would have said so by stating a generation method and not a propulsion method.
This also fits with the idea that they don't know what powers the ship, they can't talk about that so scotty comments on a direct observation, the ship runs solely on impulse engines. They already know that the Romulans have more powerful weapon systems so the next logical approach is propulsion, what speed and maneuverability can they bring to the table. Answer: impulse maneuvers, with their impulse only drive system. Why they only have impulse? No idea, nor does it matter; insert some technobabble reason here.
Actually, thinking about it some more, its probably not singularity power as the Romulans state they have a limited supply of some kind of fuel on board.
2046 wrote:The flipside of all of this is finding examples of warp flight that feature subwarp velocities . . . I believe the warp strafing of "Elaan of Troyius" featured some range callouts that are changing too slowly, and other episodes have the same problem as I recall (e.g. we'll drop out of warp in 100,000 kilometers . . . in like 10 seconds.)
The question is whether we then declare sub-FTL warp also, thus really screwing the pooch between the two (because then we'll never be able to say with any certainty what's going on), or whether we accept that these people occasionally make boo-boos.
Another example is in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" around the wormhole scene. Warp 0.8 is used to describe their velocity following a reduction in speed to sub-light from warp one.
