Zombie Inflationism III: Other Weapons

[Mr. Oragahn]

Depends of the settings and weapon standards.
I think Andromeda favors the idea of having sort of tissue paper armour or something along those lines, but with tons of redundancies and lots of compartmentalization (scrabble?), so they let enemy projectiles go through and cause the least damage possible.

nBSG, on the other hand, has the heaviest Battlestars be heavily armoured on the outside. So they can survive kinectic spam and point blank nuclear blasts from lightly to heavily encased nukes (the later being obviously the most damaging, concussion wise, at point blank range).

[2046]

compartmentalization (scrabble?)

37, assuming no double word score or any other bonuses.

http://www.thekatespanos.com/scrabble-score-calculator/

[User15083]

Preface and Pt. I: http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... f=8&t=6592
Pt. II: http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... f=8&t=6593

As always, feel free to add details or examples if I'm missing anything. I'm just trying to get a handle on the state of the debate from the minds of the inflationists, so feel free to summarize any argument you've come across.

III. Other Weapons

A. The Holy Grate

I have a whole thing going about this to be published at some point in the future, but suffice it to say that blaster firepower is being inflated out the wazoo by pretending an object was vaporized and making up its composition.

Verdict: Rotting, but still walking because it doesn't know its DOA yet.

B. Docking Bay 94

Han's wild shots against the wall of Docking Bay 94 are still used to try to claim massive firepower for Han's blaster, and by extension those of Imperials. The usual maneuver is to try to make the walls sound awesomely resilient by claiming they had to withstand the thrust of the engines without melting/fracturing/vaporizing/whatever.

1. As indicated, it's a packed dirt wall. You can see my posts from 2003 on the topic here: http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ ... 354/page-2

2. The wall resilience argument makes no sense given that HOTH ICE was unaffected by even the largest engines seen to be running inside the cavern/hangar.

Verdict: Old and smelling bad, but puppeteers keep trying to give it the appearance of movement.

C. Frying Greedo

Han's shot against Greedo, which no doubt meant he had absolutely no right to complain about the smell *anywhere*, is used to claim massive firepower for Han's blaster, and by extension those of Imperials.

Verdict: Other than a massive pall of smoke, there's not much of interest here that I can recall off the top of my head. The material of his clothing gets partially burned off and he dies . . . what of it? But I suppose it demands a retort.

Hey guys i'm new here I come from another forum where i'm arguing over blaster power and was refered to here by this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qms-9fxT6Vo


So the author claims that the Star Wars blasters have a power setting that can be adjusted. I know right hillarious when you think about it since no one ever uses high power on someone shooting at them


Anyway here are some of my thoughts

A. For the power settings theory to work Leia would have needed to change the power setting before firing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuyX9rF6FHc

We see she never does.

So why does this explode? Well my idea is that materials such as metal and rock can't absorb and redistrubite the heat so they explode.


B. Same as above for the rock. But my question is why are we assuming that Star Wars engines give off heat? It doesn't really look like flames shooting out and we know that TIE fighters use Ion engines which if they are anything like our ideas of Ion Engines they woudnt' emit any heat.

This would also explain Hoth

C. Point blank shot results in a smoking mess. yeah... not really any indication of power settings. Plus all that smoke could be coming from his cheap clothes.

[Mike DiCenso]

So the author claims that the Star Wars blasters have a power setting that can be adjusted. I know right hillarious when you think about it since no one ever uses high power on someone shooting at them

First off, welcome to the forum.

Second, I don't doubt that Star Wars blaster pistols or rifles can have power settings, they certainly have a stun setting, so why not other settings that increase or decrease power? But the real arguments tend to revolve around how much power can a blaster (or turbolaser) produce, regardless of settings.
-Mike

[359]

At least on the standard clone blaster we see a simple two position switch in TCW: "Death Trap". And there is nothing beyond inconsistent showings to suggest that there are more than just 'blast' and stun. No one ever takes time to adjust settings or anything like that.

[User15083]

So the author claims that the Star Wars blasters have a power setting that can be adjusted. I know right hillarious when you think about it since no one ever uses high power on someone shooting at them

First off, welcome to the forum.

Second, I don't doubt that Star Wars blaster pistols or rifles can have power settings, they certainly have a stun setting, so why not other settings that increase or decrease power? But the real arguments tend to revolve around how much power can a blaster (or turbolaser) produce, regardless of settings.
-Mike

thanks for the welcome

Here's the thing there are a ton of situations where a power setting would have been useful in the OT at the very least.

The thing is if there is no power setting then it kind of proves that the damge we see when the Tatoonie docking bay gets blown apart or other walls is all based on the material that it is hitting and not the power output of the gun.

[User15083]

At least on the standard clone blaster we see a simple two position switch in TCW: "Death Trap". And there is nothing beyond inconsistent showings to suggest that there are more than just 'blast' and stun. No one ever takes time to adjust settings or anything like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olki7Q0iEbk

Thanks for that I made a video of it. yeah you are right there is just stun and kill.

That means those "inconsitent" showings are just the blaster bolt reacting to different material.

Which means that the Star Wars blasters aren't some huge Megajoule weapon that those Wong fans think they are.

[Mike DiCenso]

I think there's some evidence in the movies to power increases:

VEERS: Distance to power generators?
PILOT: One-seven, decimal two-eight.
VEERS: Target. Maximum fire power.

Now Veers could be ording the AT-AT pilot to fire all of the individual weapons on the vehicle at the target, or he could be refering to increasing the power of each weapon, or both. I'm not saying that your theory of blasters reacting to different materials is wrong, but I do believe that the possibility of the blaster having variable power settings still has merit.
-Mike

[359]

There are definitely firepower differences for large vehicles and for starships. But the question is if hand blasters are actually constructed with such controls. I would say probably not. The technology definitely supports the ability, but the blasters themselves do not seem to be built with that functionality.

Blasters are a tool with a specific purpose, to be a weapon. And to preform that function does not require the existence of multiple yields beyond kill, plus we know of stun. Such superfluous features only would serve to make the otherwise basic weapon more complicated and prone to failure. This fits far more with the paradigm Star Wars technology, purpose built and effective.

Now different blasters likely have different yields and variables, but within one weapon they seem to have two modes.

[2046]

The correct answer may be that some have them.

Luke heard, but he was absorbed in running from one cell to the next
and studying the numbers glowing above each doorway. The cell 2187, it
appeared, did not exist. But it did, and he found it just as he was about to
give up and try the next level down.
For a long moment he examined the featureless convex metal wall.
Turning his pistol to maximum and hoping it wouldn't melt in his hand before
it broke through, he opened fire on the door. When the weapon became too hot
to hold, he tossed it from hand to hand. As he did so the smoke had time to
clear, and he saw with some surprise that the door had been blown away.

[359]

Okay, so some do have variable settings.




And on a completely different (and not too relevant, but I can't bring myself to ignore it) note. What pistol? What convex walls? Didn't Luke just press a button and the door opened?

[User15083]

The correct answer may be that some have them.

Luke heard, but he was absorbed in running from one cell to the next
and studying the numbers glowing above each doorway. The cell 2187, it
appeared, did not exist. But it did, and he found it just as he was about to
give up and try the next level down.
For a long moment he examined the featureless convex metal wall.
Turning his pistol to maximum and hoping it wouldn't melt in his hand before
it broke through, he opened fire on the door. When the weapon became too hot
to hold, he tossed it from hand to hand. As he did so the smoke had time to
clear, and he saw with some surprise that the door had been blown away.

I'm sure some do in the Star Wars universe. But the point is and this sets a major pressidence is that the ones in the Clone Wars do not have a power setting.

So we know that every time a clone trooper or a someone shoots a humanoid with a blaster it is always at full power.


That also means every time a wall or rock explodes it is also at full power.

So that leaves us with a question. We have 2 different reactions from a blaster (humans and rocks) but both are fired at with the same strength.

So why are there 2 different reactions if the power level is the same?

Since the only variable is the materiel used that must mean it is the interaction of the blaster bolt and the material that causes the explosion.


I mean If i fired a M-16 at a person and then at a barrel full of dynamite which of course explodes, would you think that the M-16 has the ability to fire explosive bullets?


Oh and that part from the New Hope Novel isn't canon anymore.

Del Ray did tweet that the novelizations are still canon but then quickly tweeted this after
https://twitter.com/DelReyStarWars/stat ... 7341840384

The Novels are only canon when they align with what is on screen. Meaning that if it isn't shown in the movie it isn't canon.

[2046]

And on a completely different (and not too relevant, but I can't bring myself to ignore it) note. What pistol? What convex walls? Didn't Luke just press a button and the door opened?

I agree, but it was worth the note.

The remainder of the novelizations is officially discounted, but to my mind it is probably still worth considering along the lines of "historical fiction".

Case in point . . . the TCW novelization, as noted elsewhere, has all kinds of gizmos in clone helmets, like integrated zoom/binocular-style vision. But, in reality, we only saw such gizmos in Commando Gregor's special helmet. So, yeah, some have them, and I figure the TCW novelization maybe tells us about some of that, but the actual application to standard clones as seen in the novelization is way off. As seen in TCW, standard clones and even Captains have flip-down doodads for that purpose, not integrated into the helmet itself.

[Firmus Piett]

And on a completely different (and not too relevant, but I can't bring myself to ignore it) note. What pistol? What convex walls? Didn't Luke just press a button and the door opened?

I agree, but it was worth the note.

The remainder of the novelizations is officially discounted, but to my mind it is probably still worth considering along the lines of "historical fiction".

Case in point . . . the TCW novelization, as noted elsewhere, has all kinds of gizmos in clone helmets, like integrated zoom/binocular-style vision. But, in reality, we only saw such gizmos in Commando Gregor's special helmet. So, yeah, some have them, and I figure the TCW novelization maybe tells us about some of that, but the actual application to standard clones as seen in the novelization is way off. As seen in TCW, standard clones and even Captains have flip-down doodads for that purpose, not integrated into the helmet itself.

Yeah, which looked cool on the clones. But it would look bloody awful on the stromtroopers :(

[Mr. Oragahn]

Not sure. It's a matter of good aesthetics. Obviously the stormtrooper variant wouldn't be identical to the clonetrooper model. i'd expect the visor itself to look more skeletonish like a stormtrooper helmet, all of it taking its inspiration from a set of WWII goggles. Eventually, both sides of the dark glass section would be bending downwards.

PS: greetings to GMD! :)