Warp Speeds List

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Mike DiCenso
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:12 am

The E-D is shown at impulse just before the screencap of the readout display:

Image

No statement made either about dropping from warp.
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Iscander » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:05 am

2046 wrote:Regarding "The Defector", are we sure the ship was ever at warp when observed? I thought it was at impulse the whole time we saw it or had scan display of it.
If you are referring to the scoutship, it appears to be at impulse by the time it was in visual range, no streaking stars. No mention other than the image of the sensor display before that.

Additionally I was incorrect, the scoutship was not yet under fire when shown on the display. The Warbird decloaks at the end of the scene, the attack begins after the commercial break. Just re-watched the intro to the episode to confirm.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.p ... =66&page=2

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:59 am

ENT: "Demons":

Tucker: "You're going to warp?"
Paxton: "A five second burst."
T'Pol: "Inside the system?"
...
Greaves: "We're in Mars orbit. All systems functioning."

Here we have a rather odd example of an old mining station fitted for flight warping from Earth lunar orbit to Mars orbit. The trip is stated to take 5 seconds, and the distance between Earth and Mars varies between 54.6 million kilometers and 401 million kilometers for an average of 225 million kilometers. Using 225 Gm in 5 s and scaling up to ly/yr results in a travel speed of 9,000c. Using 225 Gm in 5 s and scaling up to ly/yr results in a travel speed of 150c.

This is quite the expedient trip given the technology of the era. Enterprise is the first warp 5 vessel, and in ENT: "Fortunate Son" we learn that most "modern" human trade ships use a warp 3+ engine with older models using warp 1.8. Given this is an ad-hoc vessel, and that it was built a generation ago by Paxton's father for the purpose of relocating to new mining sites and not to make cargo runs, it seems likely that the ship would at most be making warp 1.8 for the journey.

Interestingly this would make a 80 ly round-trip trade route (a handful of systems away) take about 3 days, so it seems to be definitely on the high end.

Warp: Unknown (1.8?); Distance: ≈225 million kilometers; Time: 5 seconds

Edit: Tired brain makes math mistakes :P
Last edited by 359 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:35 pm

Nicely done, as always! We can even enhance it a tad with Celestia. Plugging in January 20, 2155 gives an Earth-Mars distance of 1.03 AU, or about 154,000,000 kilometers.

Additionally, they may have executed a five second burst of warp power, but the actual on-screen warp flight time was about 20 seconds.

That's 7,700,000 km/s, which brings it down to a much more consistent 25.68c.

(Obviously the top speed would be a bit higher given the burst-and-coast flight plan, but as shaky as that thing was I wouldn't suggest a long haul in it.)

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:47 pm

Indeed the total screen time is much longer, however the bulk of that is on Enterprise. The actual screen time of the facility while it is at warp is approximately 5 seconds. Because of this, and because it seems unlikely they could successfully warp coast with such limited tech, I chose to interpret those scenes as being simultaneous. This allows both the video and dialog to match.

However, I now notice my tired late-night brain did make a conversion mistake: the value is 60 times too high as I converted from seconds to minutes an extra time. Editing.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:56 pm

Hmm . . . usually events aren't considered as simultaneous, but you're correct that the argument could be made here. I don't know that coasting is a tech issue, though . . . just cutting off the engines should produce the effect, as in the case of saucer sep (e.g. "Brothers", IIRC).

In any case, that's 154,000,000km in either 5s or 20s, the latter being 30,800,000km/s or 102.7c versus the 25.7c 20s figure . . . readily rounded / sigfigged to 25 to 100c.

Neato.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:54 am

I was thinking of the saucer separation in TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint" where saucer separation at warp was considered hazardous. Additionally in TNG: "Force of Nature" Riker implies warp "coasting" is not a common practice, and Data states that they must pre saturate the warp nacelles to do so, presumably to maintain their warp field even if not to propel the ship forwards. Given these limitations on a Galaxy class starship I would argue the technology available to a mining station almost 300 years prior probably would not be able to accomplish such a maneuver.

Indeed, either way we end up with a surprisingly nice 25c - 100c figure for low warp.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:23 pm

Ah, I think we're using the same word for different things, which is okay because the word means either one.

I was referring to the idea of coasting as in "coast to a stop", rather than "coast and maintain velocity". (One can also coast and accelerate, e.g. down a hill, but neither of us meant that.)

Translated to warp engines, the newly-detached saucer exits the warp field thanks to a touch of slowdown/reversal of the stardrive section and then coasts (decelerating) to sublight. This is what I was envisoning for the Terra Prime facility-ship . . . a five-second burst of warp power then fifteen seconds of coasting down to sublight (rather than a reversal of engine power to drop out of warp). Given that the saucer was to take two minutes to drop out of high warp in "Brothers" (IIRC) then fifteen seconds sounds fine, time-wise, for a low-warp coasting deceleration.

The "Force of Nature" coasting involved maintaining velocity without the engines technically engaged, which I presume to refer to something like maintaining a superconducting magnet's magnetic field after power is disengaged . . . or maybe keeping a light working via residual DC current once you've removed alternating current power that damages subspace. Either way it was weird.

The latter is most certainly a greater technical accomplishment that I wouldn't expect from the facility-ship, so you're right about that.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:46 pm

DIS: "Such Sweet Sorrow":

As we are treated to a wonderful shot of the reimagined Constitution Class bridge we are also treated to a sweat technical candy. After Captain Pike orders Enterprise to a safe distance we get to se Number One's hands entering the command on a very legible panel helm panel. It currently reads "Warp Factor" with a large numeral "6.25" beneath it. After hitting engage this changes to a readout of multiples of c, climbing up to "244c".

However, things are more complicated than just this. I wish I could grab a screenshot but I can't get the image, maybe after a bit of poking around later. Sufficed to say this is on a control pad labeled "PRT-N," which I presume to mean Port Nacelle as there is a similar interface cluster to the right labeled "STR-N." Above the display text is also added: "6.25 impulse." Additionally the Port Nacelle is listed as active while the Starboard Nacelle is listed as inactive.

Regardless, a simple interpretation of this is warp 6.25 TOS scale is 244c. However, arguments could be made that those two numbers do not directly relate to each other as one is in a clearly impulse configuration.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:36 pm

The reimagined Enterprise/Constitution-class bridge looks amazing. It's much like what a some of the old guard fans wanted for Discovery's bridge, updated but still very familiar to the original design things like the touchpads replacing the old jellybean colored buttons and analog switches. I myself like that different ship classes have a strong difference. As an old poster here Nowhereman10 pointed out on Discus, even as far back as TAS, ships like the USS Huron had a basic similar layout, but were very different at the same time. So I'm happy and it makes the Connies more special among all the other ship classes.

We should have a separate thread to discuss this from this point on.

As for the warp speeds. We knew from the ENT episode "Twilight" that starships can make warp speed on a single nacelle, but at very reduced speed. So if the Connies can do 225c on one nacelle, I would have to wonder what sort of efficiency multiplier they get for the tandem nacelles. Probably the benefit that the twin nacelle configuration of the Klingons, Federation, and Romulans.

Oh, and we also know now from DISC that Starbase 11 is 2 light years from Talos IV. ("If Memory Serves")
Given this, we can come up with some warp speed calculations. It seems to only take about a day or two at unspecified warp to get to Talos IV from Starbase 11 in "The Menagerie" or about 730 c on average despite early in the first part where Spock tells Pike it's only "six days away at maximum warp". And we can't necessarily assume the ship was going full speed or too slow since the shuttlecraft with Kirk and Mendez had to be able to overtake the Enterprise so he could get on board and then allow for time for the faux court martial so Spock could explain why they needed to take Pike to Talos IV.

So 122 c minimum speed at anywhere from warp 6 to warp 8 and 730 c given that despite what Spock tells Pike, 730 c since only a day or two actually seems to go by.
-Mike

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