Warp Speeds List

For polite and reasoned discussion of Star Wars and/or Star Trek.
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2046
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:33 am

I don't think the first quote actually appears in the final episode. None of it sounds remotely familiar.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:32 pm

Ack! So it is. I missed that somehow. My bad.

Too bad, as it actually gives us a real working timeframe for the events of "Broken Bow". On the other hand, what is the current canon policy for such scenes?
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:34 pm

I am not aware of any changes. To my knowledge, the shows as broadcast are the canon versions.

Then again, StarTrek.com folks *were* doing that little push for TAS canonicity, and things are in such limbo now with the separation that if you really wanted to make a case, you probably would never be formally contradicted (unlike EU-philes).

But for me, I can't roll with it. There are other deleted/unfilmed scenes that would be fantastic, but I just can't go there without formalities.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:39 am

Interesting as I've never heard anything one way or the other on the status of deleted (but filmed) scenes, like the one in question. But I think I'll leave this example and the dialog in there just because the case can be made in favor of using the deleted scene in question, and it does solve a few issues concerning the time frame of "Broken Bow".

For one thing, the only starlog date is April 16, 2151. Well, Archer gives that date between Klaang's kidnapping and the trip to the gas giant and Suliban Helix base. That means the NX-01 launched a few days or so prior around April 10 through 12. The next log date we get is in "Flight or Fight" at the end of the episode which takes place over a of couple days, and about 2 weeks after the end of the events of "Broken Bow".
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Last edited by Mike DiCenso on Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:59 pm

I have some old thoughts on that:

http://st-v-sw.net/archive/TA-ENT1chrono.html

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:58 pm

Maybe I missed it, but a search showed nothing for "The Cage":
GARISON: It's a radio wave, sir. We're passing through an old-style distress signal.
PIKE: They were keyed to cause interference and attract attention this way.
GARISON: A ship in trouble making a forced landing, sir. That's it. No other message.
TYLER: I have a fix. It comes from the Talos star group.
ONE: We've no ships or Earth colonies that far out.
SPOCK: Their call letters check with a survey expedition. SS Columbia. It disappeared in that region approximately eighteen years ago.
TYLER: It would take that long for a radio beam to travel from there to here.
SPOCK: Records show the Talos group has never been explored. Solar system similar to Earth, eleven planets. Number four seems to be Class M, oxygen atmosphere.
ONE: Then they could still be alive, even after eighteen years.
PIKE: If they survived the crash.
SPOCK: We aren't going to go, to be certain?
PIKE: Not without any indication of survivors, no. Continue to the Vega Colony and take care of our own sick and injured first. You have the helm. Maintain present course.
ONE: Yes, sir.
Sometime later Spock reports a follow-up message, and circa 0500 the Enterprise proceeds to Talos at warp seven. After Pike's capture he is made to relive the recent fight on Rigel VII, noting:
PIKE: This is Rigel Seven.
VINA: Please, we must hide ourselves.
PIKE: I was in a cage, a cell, in some kind of a zoo. I must still be there.
VINA: Come on.
PIKE: They've reached into my mind and taken the memory of somewhere I've been.
VINA: The killer!
PIKE: It's starting just as it happened two weeks ago. Except for you.
So it is vague, but we know that Rigel VII toward Vega (an old colony and presumably 25 light years from Earth as per the star) with a mid-trip diversion to Talos (which at one point in the trip was 18 light-years distant) cannot take more than a couple of weeks.

At minimum, this is about a light-year per day for Warp 7 (assuming 18 days and 18 light-years), or 365c.

Without a timeline for how long ago the ship actually departed Rigel (the whole ordeal could've taken days), or how long they were already traveling or how long it took to get to Talos, nothing more firm is available, but it likely fits well with, e.g., stuff like "Cease Fire" with 1500c for warp five, and more here.

Notes:

Memory Alpha strangely claims that the Rigel-Vega trip was several weeks away at maximum cruise. http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rigel_VII There is no evidence for that.

The real Rigel is 770 light-years away, incidentally, but per Enterprise there is a closer Rigel (ugh).

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:57 am

I'm tempted to say there is proof of ultra fast warp speed here on the basis that we see a nearly contiguous scene as shown in the comparison clip from 4:00 to 4:30 after Pike orders change of course to Talos IV. We see Tyler hold up his hands to indicate seven. But seven what? Minutes? Warp 7? Either way, if I used the same over literal methodology as certain people do, warp 7 speed would be around 315,360c, assuming only around 30 seconds travel time!
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:08 pm

Alas, not really. In the episode we cut from the "woman on the bridge" scene to the arrival at the planet as a shipless space shot, then cut back to the bridge and folks have moved around. The doctor's gone, et cetera.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:19 pm

That's not really disproof of that. At worst it is a number of hours long trip given that Tyler, Number One, Pike, and other crew are still at their posts when the ship arrives. In other words, the journey was bracketed by one crew shift of 6-12 hours. Assuming 6 hours went by, that means 26,280c. Either number fits in well with the standard TOS-era speeds of 10,000c to 400,000c.
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:06 am

It may not be a disproof, but the alternative is emotionally unsatisfying to me. My usual rule of thumb is that if everyone is in the exact same spot it might be worth a further look, but otherwise it is simply an indication of time having passed, and we can't really know how much with certainty.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:43 pm

There was chatter on earlier pages about the distance of DS9 to Earth. That example, which I thought had come up before, would constrain it to about 380 light-years, which is contrary to some but not all other data.

Put simply, they never came to a group decision and nailed it down.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:39 pm

Not to break the fourth (or more) wall, but Robert Hewitt Wolfe is/was having a sort of AMA for DS9's anniversary. I posed the question of whether he recalled any discussion on this topic and his response was that it was as far as the plot required.

Quoting:

"@writergeekrhw

Sorry I'm late, but do you recall any discussion on the distance of #DS9-Earth? Canon statements are all over the place."

Response:

"A) @STvSW At any given moment, Earth and Bajor are as far apart as story requires. #DS9"

Not suggesting that is the canon answer, just that we shouldn't be shocked that they were all over the place with it.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Iscander » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:52 am

Reposting this. For the record, this is what 2049 was responding to, up two posts
DS9 S3E10 “Fascination”

JAKE: Mardah's gone, Dad. She got accepted to the Science Academy on Regulus Three.
SISKO: That's a good school.
JAKE: It's three hundred light years away.
Since the distance from DS9 to Earth or Vulcan has come up a few times.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:32 pm

It's been a while.

TNG: "Interface":

Picard: "Geordi, the Hera's last reported location was three hundred light years away. How could it end up here?"

LaForge: "The Hera passed near this planet just ten days ago. There's an awful lot of subspace disturbance in the atmosphere. The ship could've accidentally picked up some residual traces that directed the funnel right back here."

Holt: "Nothing at all. I wish I could say I was just calling to catch up on things. Nine days ago, the Hera left here on a routine courier mission. We were in contact with them for five of those days. Then the ship disappeared without a trace."

From the first quote we know that the Hera disappeared 300 ly from the planet the Enterprise and that the Hera had passed by the planet 10 days before the middle of the episode. The episode could take place over one or two days, but we'll stick with one to get the smallest value possible. We also know that the ship disappeared five days after leaving DS3, where it arrived 9 days prior. This means that she had passed the planet four days earlier. Assuming a straight-line course away from the planet, to minimize distance traveled and thus the estimate, this is an average speed of 26,700c.

Warp: Unknown, 6?; Distance: 300 ly; Time: 4 Days.



EDIT: 2046 has pointed out an error in my calculations, corrections can be found 3 posts from here.
Last edited by 359 on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:34 am

TNG: "Emergence":

And another in such short a time...

Picard: "Mister Data, report."
Data: "The ship has moved into warp, sir."
Riker: "Who gave that command?"
Data: "Apparently no one. Helm and navigation controls are not functioning. Our speed is now warp seven point three and holding."
...
Data: "We are no longer at warp, sir. Impulse power has resumed. All systems show normal."
Riker: "Where are we?"
Data: "We are approximately thirty billion kilometres from our original position."


This is one continuous string of dialogue that spans a time 50 seconds (while at warp). This gives a speed of roughly 2,000c (off by 0.7c) for warp 7.3. There is a 12 second period of acceleration which would push the value higher, but it should not affect the value significantly.

Warp: 7.3; Distance: 30 billion kilometers (30 Tm); Time: 50 seconds.

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