Warp Speeds List

For polite and reasoned discussion of Star Wars and/or Star Trek.
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2046
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:12 am

2046 wrote:From "Waltz"[DSN6]
KIRA: It's confirmed. USS Honshu was destroyed this morning at ten thirty hours by an attack wing of Cardassian destroyers. Starfleet has picked up the distress beacons from three escape pods and one shuttlecraft, so there are survivors.
ODO: The signals are coming from this area. The last reported position of the Honshu was here, which means there could be survivors in any of these adjacent star systems.
O'BRIEN: That's a pretty large area. How many ships are in the search party?
ODO: Two. The Constellation and the Defiant.
DAX: Two? It could take days.
KIRA: With all the Dominion activity along the border, it's all Starfleet can spare at the moment. And the Defiant has another appointment. In fifty two hours you need to be at this rendezvous point outside the Badlands. You are the escort for a Federation troop convoy.
WORF: It will take twelve hours just to arrive at the coordinates where the Honshu was destroyed.
KIRA: And twelve more to reach the Badlands, I know. But this convoy is completely unprotected. They've been using the plasma fields in the Badlands to hide their movements, and when they emerge they're helpless without the Defiant.
Per the later "The Sound of Her Voice"[DSN6], the Defiant tops out at Warp 9.5 using extraordinary measures, but has potential structural integrity issues beyond Warp 9. So, Warp 9 is probably her normal maximum.

Starbase 621 is noted as the destination of the Honshu, and Sisko had been aboard it for a couple of days. They were due to arrive by noon the following day.

621 was mentioned previously in "Sub Rosa" . . . Picard was suggesting that they were planning to leave Caldos in a few hours to be at Starbase 621 the following morning, and Caldos was a very old colony. So, it seems the Honshu was probably headed to a location reasonably close to Caldos, which probably puts it deeper into Federation space (though, in fairness, "Lower Decks" was next).

The point is, barring a rendezvous, not only was the Honshu able to cruise at less-than-maximum warp to another starbase in Federation space within a few days, a trip that would carry them past a few other star systems, but the Defiant, presumably bookin' it, was able to arrive at the area of these other star systems within 12 hours.

Even just assuming 15ly for the trip between DS9 and 621, an estimate for the Honshu destruction site would be 10ly from DS9, giving the Defiant 20ly/day.

YMMV.
Given the map from "When it Rains", the two closest points of the Badlands to DS9 are something like 10 light-years from the station. So, the bare minimum is 10ly/day, and that's assuming that the Honshu destruction site was literally directly en route to the Badlands (which doesn't make sense).

10ly/day is about 3650c.

I consider that too low.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:50 am

TNG: "Force of Nature":

Riker: "Fleming on long range sensors, approximately zero point three light years away."
...
Riker: "Shields at maximum. Full reverse."
...
Picard: "Can you get a fix on the Fleming? Is she still in one piece?"
Data: "Scanning. The Fleming is near its previous coordinates. It appears to be intact, but it is now within the rift."

...
Data: "I suggest we coast into the rift."
Riker: "Coast?"
Data: "We can initiate a brief, high intensity warp pulse from our current position. We should be able to attain sufficient velocity to enter the rift, beam the crew off the Fleming and exit without using our warp engines."
Riker: "All right, let's say we initiate a full power warp pulse. How much time do we need to drop out of warp?"
Data: "If we field saturate the nacelles, we should be able to sustain warp speed for approximately two minutes."
Riker: "That doesn't give us much time, and it could get pretty rough in there."
Data: The timing will be critical."
Picard: "Begin your calculations, Mister Data. We'll go as soon as you're ready."
Data: "Aye, sir."


The Enterprise-D is stated to be 0.3 lightyears from the Fleming just before the rupture is formed. As they are about to warp over to rescue the ship, however, Serova breaches her warp core forming a subspace rift. The Enterprise quickly backs off at maximum velocity. Putting them at some unknown, probably very small, distance over 0.3 ly from the Fleming.

Since they can't use their warp engines normally Data comes up with a plan to "coast" in at warp speeds to rescue the crew. This is predicted to only last for around two minutes, which is considered to be enough to reach the ship in distress and depart from the danger zone.

This is an unusual maneuver and also refers to them loosing momentum, so presumably they are also slowing down during the flight. But they are supposed to maintain warp-like velocities but which warp factor is not stated.

So doing an un powered 'warp coast' with an unknown starting velocity the Enterprise is expected to travel over 0.3 lightyears in less than two minutes. This is an average velocity of 78,891 c.

Warp: unknown (and slowing); Distance: 0.3 ly; Time: ≈2 min

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:56 am

It took a maximum of 13 days to get from Earth to DS9, according to "The Search." "...last Tuesday, when you took all this stuff out of storage on Earth." Thus, Ben and Jake were on Earth some day that could legitimately be called "last Tuesday," and were on the station later. The most number of days later that you can still legitimately call something "last whatever" is thirteen. Thus, thirteen days away from Earth, and the warp speed limit was in effect, so they had to be going no faster than warp 5. 13 days at warp 5 is a LOT closer than 12 days at warp 9.9.

taken from: http://flare.solareclipse.net/cgi2/ulti ... 3/479.html

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:45 pm

2046 wrote:It took a maximum of 13 days to get from Earth to DS9, according to "The Search." "...last Tuesday, when you took all this stuff out of storage on Earth." Thus, Ben and Jake were on Earth some day that could legitimately be called "last Tuesday," and were on the station later. The most number of days later that you can still legitimately call something "last whatever" is thirteen. Thus, thirteen days away from Earth, and the warp speed limit was in effect, so they had to be going no faster than warp 5. 13 days at warp 5 is a LOT closer than 12 days at warp 9.9.

taken from: http://flare.solareclipse.net/cgi2/ulti ... 3/479.html

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We can do better then that!
Franchise: Star Trek Series: Deep Space Nine Season: 3 Episode: 1 Title: The Search Part 1 wrote: SISKO: When did I start thinking of this Cardassian monstrosity as home? 


JAKE: I think it happened last Thursday, around seventeen hundred hours. When you took all this stuff out of storage back on Earth. 


SISKO: Careful. That's a two thousand year old Yoruba mask and that stuff is one of the finest collections of ancient

Maximum number of days it took to get from Sol-3 to Deep Space: 9 can be no more then 14 days

A day on Sol-3 is considered to be roughly 24 hours

A day on Bajor is roughly 26 hours

The Warp Speed Limit was Warp 5

The Defiant's top warp factor is Warp 9.5

If the trip to Deep Space Nine took 7 Bajorian days then the Siskos could have been traveling for roughly 182 hours

How far is Bajor from Sol-3?

Edit: Last Thursday can't be more then 7 days ago.
Last edited by Lucky on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:27 pm

Lucky wrote:How far is Bajor from Sol-3?
There is a discussion back on page 7 regarding transit distance from Bajor to Earth. And while I do still think it should be in the 3,000 to 4,000 light-year range, since then I have been using 2,000 ly as a half-way mark. This is largely due to the known size of the Federation and Bajor, a)being near Cardassia, a power not encountered in the 23rd century, thus making it far away, and b)Bajor is described as being out on the frontier; specifically in this description as to why Bashir chose to come to DS9: Bashir: "I wanted this. The farthest reaches of the galaxy. One of the most remote outposts available." (DS9: "Emissary").

A 2,000 ly journey back from Earth would make for an average speed of 48,164 c.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:26 am

Lucky wrote:How far is Bajor from Sol-3?
359 wrote: There is a discussion back on page 7 regarding transit distance from Bajor to Earth. And while I do still think it should be in the 3,000 to 4,000 light-year range, since then I have been using 2,000 ly as a half-way mark. This is largely due to the known size of the Federation and Bajor, a)being near Cardassia, a power not encountered in the 23rd century, thus making it far away, and b)Bajor is described as being out on the frontier; specifically in this description as to why Bashir chose to come to DS9: Bashir: "I wanted this. The farthest reaches of the galaxy. One of the most remote outposts available." (DS9: "Emissary").

A 2,000 ly journey back from Earth would make for an average speed of 48,164 c.
Did you catch my mistake in that the Defiant had 7 days rather then 14?


Trying to find the location of Bajor

Earth is basically on the Klingon/Federation border.

Earth seems to basically be one the border between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.

The area around Earth and the other founding Federation members is well explored and mapped by the time of Deep Space Nine.

Bajor is solidly in the Alpha Quadrant.

The Cardassian capital is very close to Bajor.

The Romulan Empire borders the United Federation of Planets, the Gamma Quadrant, and seems to share borders with the Klingon Empire

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bajoran_wormhole

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Vo ... etrics.jpg

I think a good argument can be made that the Bajoran Wormhole is at least 8,000 light years from Earth.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:03 am

Romulus has a border with Gamma? I don't think we know anyone bordering Gamma.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:15 am

2046 wrote:Romulus has a border with Gamma? I don't think we know anyone bordering Gamma.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/romulans wrote: The Romulans' preference for waiting and observing while other make the first move would explain why they have never ventured into the Gamma Quadrant.
It sounds like the Romulans border the Gamma Quadrant, but that something is making them cautious.

The part of the Romulan Empire we normally see is sandwiched between the galactic bulge and UFP and Klingons all the while seemingly sharing a border with the Cardassians Union.

I've been trying to draw up a map of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, but an 8,000 light year Federation keeps coming up as too small to be the major power we see in the series.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:52 pm

Romulus should not border Gamma. The StarTrek.com text simply refers to their rationale for providing a cloak to Starfleet rather than sending their own vessels through the wormhole as did the Klingons.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:03 pm

2046 wrote:Romulus should not border Gamma. The StarTrek.com text simply refers to their rationale for providing a cloak to Starfleet rather than sending their own vessels through the wormhole as did the Klingons.
Romulus is simply the capital of the Romulan Star Empire. It's just one planet of an unknown number in an empire, and we only see the border that the Federation has to deal with, and that is in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.

Given the location of the Romulan Empire is relatively near the galactic center, it would be easy for the Romulans to have some holdings in all 4 quadrants if they wanted to.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:36 am

That was mere synecdoche.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:13 am

The Undiscovered Country

Uhura: "This is the bridge. We are still in Klingon space. Deck nine. Remain at battle stations. Deck nine. Remain at battle stations."

Kirk: "Bless you, Sulu. Where's the peace conference? They're going to attempt another assassination."
Sulu: "The Conference is at Camp Khitomer, near the Romulan border. I'm sending exact coordinates on a coded frequency."
...
Kirk: "When does this conference start?"
Sulu: "According to my information, today."


http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... hd2090.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... hd2149.jpg

The first image takes place during conversation between Kirk and Sulu. Shortly thereafter the Enterprise departs for Khitomer. Above the view screen, quite handily, is the ship's chronometer depicting a time around 05:30. Just a minute before dropping out of warp at Khitomer there is a scene which shows the time to now be around 09:40. Since the conference has already started and it is stated to happen that same day the Enterprise made the trip in 4 hours and 10 minutes.

The ship is initially located in Klingon territory after departing from Rura Penthe. They then proceed to the neutral planet Khitomer. This is probably quite a large distance, even for space, and is most definitely a different system. This makes the absolute minimum travel distance 5 light-years. This makes for a minimum speed of 10,518 c.

Now the ship was traveling at maximum warp in order to get there in time to prevent an assasination. However, we do not know the maximum warp of a constitution class (refit model) starship.

Warp: Unknown, maximum; Distance: >5 ly; Time: 4 h 10 min

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

And Chang calls at 9:46… nice catch!

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:53 am

Reading over it again I feel that I should clarify: the scene showing the time to be 09:37:06 is the same scene in which they drop out of warp. There is a cut, but it's bridged by a continuous line from Kirk. So they definitely drop out of warp around 09:38. This time I just don't care to measure the scene down to the second.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:12 am

One thing that I've always been curious about is how long it took the NX-01 to cross 15 light years to reach Rigel 10 in the pilot episode "Broken Bow". After a bit of detective work and searching through Chrissie's Transcripts, I found this during a scene on Rigel 10 in a conversation between Archer and a Rigelian dock master:

DOCK MASTER: Five or six days ago? Do you realise how much traffic we process in a single day?

ARCHER: This was a one man Klingon scout ship.

DOCK MASTER: What species are you?

ARCHER: Humans. We're called humans.

DOCK MASTER: (responding to alarm) Elkan nine, raise your approach vector by point two radiants. It was seven days ago. A K'toch class vessel.


ARCHER:
Does it say who he was here to see?

DOCK MASTER: What is says is that he arrived at docking port six and was given a level one biohazard clearance.

ARCHER: You don't seem to be very interested in what people do here.

DOCK MASTER: Our visitors value their privacy. It wouldn't be very tusoropko tuprova pro the business they're in.


The first bit of dialog is important because the context here is that this was the Klingon Klaang's last stop before he headed to Earth where he was then shot by a farmer, and then the NX-01 was launched some time later to take Klaang to Qo'nos. So from this perspective, the NX-01 had already been in space some time before this heading to Qo'nos before diverting and traveling across 15 light years to get to Rigel 10. Thus using Archer's frame of reference of 5-6 days since he did not know that Klaang had been to Rigel 10 7 days prior, we can bracket the journey to Rigel 10.

So, the numbers. Assuming 6 days and no stops, 15 x 365 = 5,475 light days, which is then divided by 6 gives us a speed of 912.5c. Previously the ship's speed of warp was stated to be warp 4.3 and warp 4.5. This obviously contradicts the backstage warp velocity charts for TOS, never mind TNG, which would place those at warp 9.7 and 7.726.

Now that is being fairly conservative since we know it took three days to get the NX-01 ready to go once it had been decided to take Klaang back home on that ship:

ARCHER: Volatile? You have no idea how much I'm restraining myself from knocking you on your ass. These Klingons, they're anxious to get their man back. Fine. I can have my ship ready to go in three days. We'll take him back home, alive.

So we can knock off 3 days from the previous bracket of 6 days, which doubles the velocity to 1,825.3c. We can take that time down even further given Klaang's travel time to Earth, and the NX-01 was underway about a day when the Suliban attacked it and kidnap Klaang from the ship.

Warp 4.5 = 912 to 1,825c
-Mike

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