Warp Speeds List

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Mike DiCenso
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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:06 am

Found this little gem from TNG's "Booby Trap":

LAFORGE: No, no, no!

LEAH: Will you listen to me!
LAFORGE: You can't boost the warp power that way!

LEAH: You can just increase the speed of the parallel subspace field processor to gain a quicker response time

LAFORGE:I want to give us enough power to strengthen the shields and barrel out of here, not blow us up!

LEAH: This is my design we're talking about. I did all the calculations myself.

LAFORGE: I don't care if you built it with your bare hands out of an old Ferengi cargo ship, it's going to go (whee boom) and we're going with it.

LEAH: I am not used to having people question my judgment.

LAFORGE: And I'm not used to dying. Okay, look. You worked in a lab on a static model. This is a working machine. It's got tens of thousands of light years on it.

LEAH: True.


So, the warp propulsion systems of the E-D have accumulated tens of thousands of light years on them according to Geordi. Now that means there is at least 20,000 light years on the drive, and it could be upwards of 90,000. We also know that this episode is number six in season 3, which is pretty early there. We also know that the E-D was in service some time before the events of "Encounter at Farpoint", but no more than a year. So we can say about 3.5 years of service for the E-D putting on all those tens of thousands of light years.

So, to be conservative I'll assume only 20,000 light years was accumulated on the drive for this estimate: So 20,000 divided by 3.5 = 5,714c as an average speed. That's pretty good considering all the various stops and adventures the ship has had along the way to maintain such an average and remember they've been going the length and breadth of the Federation and into uncharted space exploring, so that's very impressive indeed. Now if we go with "tens of thousands" meaning around 90,000 accumulated light years, then 25,714c would be the average speed.

The averaging of the two estimates above yields 15,714c.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:02 am

I've always liked that one, myself . . . but c'mon, why would it be so different that it would make the ship blow up? Doesn't Starfleet offer a 7 season, 70,000 light-year warranty?

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:17 pm

2046 wrote: I've always liked that one, myself . . . but c'mon, why would it be so different that it would make the ship blow up? Doesn't Starfleet offer a 7 season, 70,000 light-year warranty?
It does appear that they need to give the ship a tuneup every few 100,000 light years so to speak.
Franchise: Star Trek Series: The Next Generation Season: 06 Episode: 20 Title: The Chase wrote: Captain's log, stardate 46735.2. Our frequent use of high warp over the last few days has overextended the propulsion systems. We are finishing minor repairs before returning to Federation territory.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:20 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote: So, the warp propulsion systems of the E-D have accumulated tens of thousands of light years on them according to Geordi. Now that means there is at least 20,000 light years on the drive, and it could be upwards of 90,000. We also know that this episode is number six in season 3, which is pretty early there. We also know that the E-D was in service some time before the events of "Encounter at Farpoint", but no more than a year. So we can say about 3.5 years of service for the E-D putting on all those tens of thousands of light years.

So, to be conservative I'll assume only 20,000 light years was accumulated on the drive for this estimate: So 20,000 divided by 3.5 = 5,714c as an average speed. That's pretty good considering all the various stops and adventures the ship has had along the way to maintain such an average and remember they've been going the length and breadth of the Federation and into uncharted space exploring, so that's very impressive indeed. Now if we go with "tens of thousands" meaning around 90,000 accumulated light years, then 25,714c would be the average speed.

The averaging of the two estimates above yields 15,714c.
-Mike
I'm not sure how you are ending up with 3.5 years? It seems like 3 years at most.
Franchise: Star Trek Series: The Next Generation Season: 01 Episode: 01 Title: Encounter at Farpoint wrote: Captain's log, stardate 41153.7. Our destination is planet Deneb Four, beyond which lies the great unexplored mass of the galaxy. My orders are to examine Farpoint, a starbase built there by the inhabitants of that world. Meanwhile, I am becoming better acquainted with my new command, this Galaxy Class USS Enterprise. I am still somewhat in awe of its size and complexity. As for my crew, we are short in several key positions, most notably a first officer, but I am informed that a highly experienced man, one Commander William Riker, will be waiting to join our ship at our Deneb Four destination.
This certainly makes it sound like Picard was given command of the Enterprise-D, and then sent straight to Farpoint to me. I think half a year is a long time to go without a full crew let alone important positions like first officer, and to get acquainted with the ship.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:00 pm

I believe Mike refers to the dedication plaque, which shows the date of commission as 40759.something.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:03 pm

I guess I did not make it clear, but I was attempting to be as conservative with my assumptions as possible. so yes, the commissioning plaque indicating a 2363 launch, and assuming the ship was putting all this light yearage on the engines right out of the gate it would be in service for 3.5. Years.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:28 am

2046 wrote:
I believe Mike refers to the dedication plaque, which shows the date of commission as 40759.something.
Mike DiCenso wrote: I guess I did not make it clear, but I was attempting to be as conservative with my assumptions as possible. so yes, the commissioning plaque indicating a 2363 launch, and assuming the ship was putting all this light yearage on the engines right out of the gate it would be in service for 3.5. Years.
-Mike
Where does this commissioning plaque appear? Memory Alpha says the Enterprise-D was commissioned on Stardate 41025.5, and the dedication plaque from 03X02 The Ensigns of Command, while hard to read hard to read, seems to match that.
Franchise: Star Trek Series: The Next Generation Season: 03 Episode: 02 Title: The Ensigns of Command wrote:
U.S.S. Enterprise
Galaxy Class - Starfleet Registry NCC-1701-D
Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, Mars
Fifth Starship to Bear the Name
Commissioned Stardate 41025.5
Chief of Staff: Admiral Gene Roddenberry
Design Engineer: A.G. Probert
Built by Federation Space Systems Division

"To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before'"
Verified By: articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-09-27/ ... enterprisehttp://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02/ ... hd_377.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02/ ... hd_378.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02/ ... hd_380.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02/ ... hd_381.jpg


01X01 Encounter at Farpoint
Captain's log, stardate 41153.7.

02X01 The Child
Captain's log, Stardate 42073.1.

03X01 Evolution
Captain's log, Stardate 43125.8.

03X06 Booby Trap
Captain's log, Stardate 43205.6.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:27 pm

As far as I know the date is never legible even in HD.

As for the plaque, Memory Alpha claims there is a second one introduced in the third season, presumably after "Ensigns of Command", but I know of no further close shots where that could be confirmed. Maybe "Starship Mine"?

In any case, that blew my mind, too, when I was reaearching the 40whatever post … I never knew that there was anything other than the Encyclopedia plaque.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:02 pm

The dedication plaque gives its commissioning date as 40759.5, which was intended to represent October 4, 2363, which would be the 406th anniversary of the launch of Sputnik, humanity's first spacecraft. At least that's the way it is depicted in the Next Generation Technical Manual, which is of dubious use here, but the graphic of the plaque is consistent with the actual physical set prop. But Robert is correct, the series and the movies did change the plaque from time-to-time, especially the movie, where the things would be taken after shooting was done, so the crew, getting sick and tired of that happening, removed the plaque every night after the end of the work day for safe keeping:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/120 ... e-d-plaque

But to reiterate again, I was being conservative in my estimate.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:00 am

Mike DiCenso wrote: The dedication plaque gives its commissioning date as 40759.5, which was intended to represent October 4, 2363, which would be the 406th anniversary of the launch of Sputnik, humanity's first spacecraft. At least that's the way it is depicted in the Next Generation Technical Manual, which is of dubious use here, but the graphic of the plaque is consistent with the actual physical set prop. But Robert is correct, the series and the movies did change the plaque from time-to-time, especially the movie, where the things would be taken after shooting was done, so the crew, getting sick and tired of that happening, removed the plaque every night after the end of the work day for safe keeping:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/120 ... e-d-plaque

But to reiterate again, I was being conservative in my estimate.
-Mike
It has nothing to do with you being conservative, or not. The dates on the plaques conflict.

TNG: The Ensigns of Command
Commissioned Stardate 41025.5

The Plaque you are using which doesn't look like the one in the screen cap they provide along with it on the auction site with it to me.
Launched Stardate 40759.5

You are saying the Enterprise-D was launched before it was commissioned to be built? Is that even possible?

It is likely me, but I can't find a screen cap at trekcore that shows the plaque you are using, and the plaque in the screen cap on the auction site seems different from the plaque they are trying to sell.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:05 am

2046 wrote: As far as I know the date is never legible even in HD.
It seems rather easy to read in this screen cap. You can read it by the shapes of the words.
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02/ ... hd_378.jpg

I see no reason to doubt this article from the Chicago Tribune.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987 ... enterprise

2046 wrote: As for the plaque, Memory Alpha claims there is a second one introduced in the third season, presumably after "Ensigns of Command", but I know of no further close shots where that could be confirmed. Maybe "Starship Mine"?
When do we ever see a dedication plaque for the Enterprise-D other then the one talked about in the news papers and seen up close in Ensigns of Command?
2046 wrote: In any case, that blew my mind, too, when I was reaearching the 40whatever post … I never knew that there was anything other than the Encyclopedia plaque.
Well, if it only takes less then a year to produce a Galaxy Class Starship it helps to explain where all the Galaxy class ships came from during the Dominion war.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:16 am

Y'know, it occurs to me that Kirk's TUC line about the advantages of being a thousand light years from Federation headquarters may have referred to the acquisition of said Romulan Ale rather than their current location. This may have bearing on the Federation sphere of influence insofar as core systems versus frontier in that time.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:10 pm

I would argue against that simply because both Kerla and Kirk are speaking in the present tense. Kerla is saying "Hey, this stuff is illegal" and Kirk is saying in essence "Yeah, but that's the advantage of being where we are, a thousand light years from HQ".

But I would agree with the idea that it does give us an idea of what the extent of Federation influence was in the late 23rd century. A lone starship out on the frontier and no one to look over the officers and crews' shoulders.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:06 am

Combing through TOS' rather extensive list of high warp speeds, I found a rather interesting bit from the third season episode "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" where a starship designer, Larry Marvick has gone insane after viewing Medusan ambassador Kollos and hijacked the Enterprise by knocking out Scotty and two other engineering staff and taken control of the ship. He drives the ship at warp 9.5 and we get the following dialog:

[Bridge]

KIRK: Explain, Lieutenant Sulu.

SULU: I don't believe this myself, Captain, but we're travelling at warp factor eight point five.

CHEKOV: And accelerating.

KIRK: Get engineering, Uhura.

UHURA: They don't answer, Captain.

(Spock goes to the Engineering station.)

SULU: Warp factor nine and accelerating.

KIRK: Can't you disengage power from there, Mister Spock?

SPOCK: Trying, Captain. Mister Chekov, your assistance, please.

UHURA: Captain, I have engineering now.

KIRK: Put them on intercom.

MARVICK [OC]: We mustn't sleep! They come in your dreams! That's the worst! They suffocate in your dreams! We're making it out of here!

KIRK: Security to engineering.

MIRANDA: I'll go with you.

KIRK: No.

MIRANDA: I must. I can reach his mind.


This establishes the ship was sent at warp 9 and above. When the ship is retaken Marvick in his insanity says the following:

[Engineering]

MARVICK: We'll be safe at the boundaries of the universe! We'll be safe!

(Kirk and three security men finally drag Marvick away from the controls, just as the ship hits the galactic boundary.)

KIRK: Scotty, where are we?

SCOTT: I don't know!

MARVICK:Beyond the boundaries of the galaxy. We made it. We're safe. We're safe, Captain Kirk.

KIRK: Bones.

MARVICK: Oh, no. No! No, Captain. We mustn't sleep. No! No! No, they come in your dreams. That's the worst. They suffocate in your dreams. No!

KIRK: All right. All right.

MARVICK: No.

KIRK: We'll take you to a place to hide.

MARVICK: No. Come on. We must stay here with the controls. Ready to speed. Speed! Speed to the next galaxy. Miranda? Miranda, you're here. With me.


Outside the galaxy? That could just be the ravings of a madman, but Scotty cannot locate where the ship has gone, and still later we get this:


Captain's log, stardate 5630.8. As a result of Larry Marvick's insane fears, the Enterprise lies derelict in uncharted space. We have no way to determine our position in relation to the galaxy. We are in a completely unknown void.

[Bridge]

KIRK: Where are we?

SPOCK: We are evidently far outside our own galaxy, judging from the lack of traceable reference points. When we exceeded warp speed factor nine point five, we apparently entered a space-time continuum.

MCCOY: I have the autopsy report on Marvick. Heart action stopped, cause unknown. Respiration stopped, cause unknown. Brain activity stopped, cause. Shall I go on?

KIRK: You mean he just simply died.

MCCOY: I mean he evidently could not live with what he saw.

KIRK: Or what he felt. Damage report, Scotty?

SCOTT: We need some repairs, sir, but the ship is intact.

KIRK: Position report, Mister Spock.

SPOCK: Impossible to calculate. We lack data to analyse. Our instruments appear to be functioning normally, but what they tell us makes no sense. Our records are clear up to the point at which we left our galaxy.

KIRK: Then we should be able to navigate back.

SPOCK: Unfortunately, we lack reference points on which to plot a return course. We experienced extreme sensory distortion, and we shall do so again if we attempt to use warp speed. And we cannot re-cross the barrier using sub light speed.

CHEKOV: A madman got us into this, and it's beginning to look as if only a madman can get us out.

SPOCK: An entertaining suggestion, Mister Chekov, but not very helpful.

KIRK: There is someone else aboard who might be able to help us navigate. The Medusans have developed interstellar navigation to a fine art. Could Kollos function despite the sensory distortion?

SPOCK: Very possibly. The Medusan sensory system is radically different from ours. Perhaps for the purpose of this emergency I might become Kollos.


So the ship has indeed gone outside the galaxy and the visuals definitely show something that looks an awful lot like the ship is somewhere in or just beyond the Galactic Barrier:

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/album/3 ... ty_173.JPG

What is fascinating about this is not only does it give us a high warp speed, but also is another piece of evidence that navigational data is important for a ship in traveling about space, even in intergalactic space.

But to business. The Enterprise reached warp 9.5 having started somewhere around warp 8.5, it accelerated and stopped after no more than 3 minutes time. The ship apparently started somewhere in Federation territory, or near enough to it's edges to pick up the ambassador. To keep things conservative, I'll assume that Marvick chose the shortest route out of the galaxy and headed either straight up or out, and not out to the rim. So 1,000 light years x 365 = 365,000 light days x 24 hours = 8,760,000 light hours x 60 = 525,600,000 light minutes. Divided by 3 = 175,200,000c!

Yow!

And I thought the Star Trek V 20 million c speed was the highest!

So, warp 9.5 = 175 million c.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:02 pm

Not sure if this has been covered, but per findings here:

http://dsg2k.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-b ... ation.html

. . . we get this map . . .

Image

. . . showing the distance between Starbase 375 and Bajor from "When it Rains..."[DSN7]. The distance between the two is about 29 light-years. In "Favor the Bold", the Federation fleet has to book it to DS9 to prevent the takedown of the minefield in 78 hours time. So they do final fleet departure prep, fly out, battle the Dominion for hours, and then at least the Defiant just makes it in time. However, given that they tried at all, the rest of the fleet can be assumed to be capable of a similar feat.

Assuming 29 light-years in 72 hours, that's about 3500c for everyone from Mirandas to Excelsiors, and maybe even the fighters.

I don't even want to imagine what the Klingons had to do to make it in time.

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