Warp Speeds List

[359]

Star Trek computers take voice commands just like Data, but can be accessed anywhere on the ship.

So? We have mobile voice activated GPS units, and yet it is still not unusual for someone to have this conversation, or something similar:

"How long to Fred's Food Place?"

"About five minutes by car."

Anyway, how would asking Data rather than the ship's computer support more complex calculation for warp travel?

––––––––

TNG: "The Dauphin:

LaForge: "I've just completed my final adjustments. Thanks for the time. You now have warp engines available."
Picard: "Very good."
Picard: "Number One, get us to Daled as quickly as possible."
Riker: "Ensign Gibson, take us to warp eight point eight."
Gibson: "Warp eight point eight, sir."
Riker: "Estimated time?"
Gibson: "Three hours, nine minutes."

They have been traveling for some time under impulse power from Klavdia Three to Daled Four, but next to warp impulse is incredibly slow and even at several c it would not make a dent in their journey next to warp eight. They are traveling from system to system, so they are going to travel at least 5 ly as systems are not normally any closer than that, even assuming adjacent systems. They had a stated a travel time of 3h 9m and a speed of warp 8.8. This gives a minimum speed of 13,914c for warp 8.8 in this instance.

Warp: 8.8; Time: 3h 9m; Distance: > 5 ly

––––––––

In VOY: "Night" I found a second interpretation of the description. Seven states that there are no systems within 2,500 ly, Chakotay goes on to say that they have been traveling for two months and will be traveling for another two years. I calculated the speed based on a travel distance of 2,500ly and a travel time of 26 months. However Seven's statement is that there are no stars within a 2,500 ly radius of the ship And the closest edge of the void (where there are stars), according to Chakotay is only two months away at their current warp speed. So their speed would be 15,000c using 2,500 ly in two months.

Warp: unknown (6 likely); Time: 2 months; Distance: 2,500 ly.

[2046]

KIRK: Yes, Mister Spock, that was the past. I'm concerned with the present. Or is it becoming too much for this crew to present me current information? 


Did you really try to pass this off as a defense? That is a completely different conversation.

Now, if you had chosen to correct me about my misremembering that conversation as relating to fuel consumption, you would have been going about things the right way. But trying to apply a different conversation altogether to the one in question and screw with the context that way is . . . very disappointing.

[2046]

From "Waltz"[DSN6]

KIRA: It's confirmed. USS Honshu was destroyed this morning at ten thirty hours by an attack wing of Cardassian destroyers. Starfleet has picked up the distress beacons from three escape pods and one shuttlecraft, so there are survivors.
ODO: The signals are coming from this area. The last reported position of the Honshu was here, which means there could be survivors in any of these adjacent star systems.
O'BRIEN: That's a pretty large area. How many ships are in the search party?
ODO: Two. The Constellation and the Defiant.
DAX: Two? It could take days.
KIRA: With all the Dominion activity along the border, it's all Starfleet can spare at the moment. And the Defiant has another appointment. In fifty two hours you need to be at this rendezvous point outside the Badlands. You are the escort for a Federation troop convoy.
WORF: It will take twelve hours just to arrive at the coordinates where the Honshu was destroyed.
KIRA: And twelve more to reach the Badlands, I know. But this convoy is completely unprotected. They've been using the plasma fields in the Badlands to hide their movements, and when they emerge they're helpless without the Defiant.

Per the later "The Sound of Her Voice"[DSN6], the Defiant tops out at Warp 9.5 using extraordinary measures, but has potential structural integrity issues beyond Warp 9. So, Warp 9 is probably her normal maximum.

Starbase 621 is noted as the destination of the Honshu, and Sisko had been aboard it for a couple of days. They were due to arrive by noon the following day.

621 was mentioned previously in "Sub Rosa" . . . Picard was suggesting that they were planning to leave Caldos in a few hours to be at Starbase 621 the following morning, and Caldos was a very old colony. So, it seems the Honshu was probably headed to a location reasonably close to Caldos, which probably puts it deeper into Federation space (though, in fairness, "Lower Decks" was next).

The point is, barring a rendezvous, not only was the Honshu able to cruise at less-than-maximum warp to another starbase in Federation space within a few days, a trip that would carry them past a few other star systems, but the Defiant, presumably bookin' it, was able to arrive at the area of these other star systems within 12 hours.

Even just assuming 15ly for the trip between DS9 and 621, an estimate for the Honshu destruction site would be 10ly from DS9, giving the Defiant 20ly/day.

YMMV.

[2046]

621 was mentioned previously in "Sub Rosa" . . . Picard was suggesting that they were planning to leave Caldos in a few hours to be at Starbase 621 the following morning, and Caldos was a very old colony. So, it seems the Honshu was probably headed to a location reasonably close to Caldos, which probably puts it deeper into Federation space (though, in fairness, "Lower Decks" was next).

Not to talk to myself, but actually it occurs to me that this reasoning is only accurate insofar as Caldos being among the oldest Federation terraforming projects, not due to the age of the colony alone. I make that point because Chakotey's home colony was thousands of light-years from Earth and also like 200 years old, as I recall.

But, that was not a terraforming project. I think of terraforming a colony world rather like building a skyscraper in a city. That is, as a rule, you don't build them off in the boonies. To be sure, it might be beneficial to terraform a planet at a good distance along a well-travelled spacelane, or, rarely, maybe even to provide a forward base near enemy territory (see Weytahn), but generally speaking you're only going to build one in the middle of a city where people were wanting to be anyway. It's an awful lot of trouble to go through otherwise.

[Lucky]

So? We have mobile voice activated GPS units, and yet it is still not unusual for someone to have this conversation, or something similar:

"How long to Fred's Food Place?"

"About five minutes by car."

Anyway, how would asking Data rather than the ship's computer support more complex calculation for warp travel?

I can't plan for the future until I have all the relevant information. There must have been a reason to wait until the meet to ask for travel times, or else Picard's actions do not make sense to me.

[Lucky]

Did you really try to pass this off as a defense? That is a completely different conversation.

Now, if you had chosen to correct me about my misremembering that conversation as relating to fuel consumption, you would have been going about things the right way. But trying to apply a different conversation altogether to the one in question and screw with the context that way is . . . very disappointing.

Cry me a river, it doesn't say what you thought it did, and I'm the one helping you when you couldn't be bothered to dig up the quote you were using to support your argument. The entire scene is Kirk being annoyed that his crew isn't doing what they are suppose to.

[359]

I can't plan for the future until I have all the relevant information. There must have been a reason to wait until the meet to ask for travel times, or else Picard's actions do not make sense to me.

Either:
1)Picard just got the message from Starfleet and was asking Data for a travel time,
2)Picard waited for Riker in order to breach the subject with him, or
3)The writers didn't care.

Albeit three is a little vague, but one and two are good reasons as to why Picard was asking then. Personally I think one is the case.

[Lucky]

Either:
1)Picard just got the message from Starfleet and was asking Data for a travel time,
2)Picard waited for Riker in order to breach the subject with him, or
3)The writers didn't care.

Albeit three is a little vague, but one and two are good reasons as to why Picard was asking then. Personally I think one is the case.

The meeting included pretty much ever department head, and wasn't during a life and death situation. The meeting was pre-planded, and not something anyone had to rush to. A few seconds to ask the ships computer would have been nothing.

It is either bad writing, or there is a valid reason Picard ask then.

[359]

The meeting included pretty much ever department head, and wasn't during a life and death situation. The meeting was pre-planded, and not something anyone had to rush to. A few seconds to ask the ships computer would have been nothing.

It is either bad writing, or there is a valid reason Picard ask then.

There was no shown meeting in TNG: "The Outcast". Picard asked Data a question, Riker walked onto the bridge, they talk, they leave orbit.

[2046]

Did you really try to pass this off as a defense? That is a completely different conversation.

Now, if you had chosen to correct me about my misremembering that conversation as relating to fuel consumption, you would have been going about things the right way. But trying to apply a different conversation altogether to the one in question and screw with the context that way is . . . very disappointing.

Cry me a river, it doesn't say what you thought it did, and I'm the one helping you when you couldn't be bothered to dig up the quote you were using to support your argument. The entire scene is Kirk being annoyed that his crew isn't doing what they are suppose to.

No, no, and no.

I misremembered Chekov's report to Kirk as being fuel consumption when it was really a tactical projection. But still, you tried to use a separate conversation to defeat the point that the captain and a crewman were doing the same thing, which was wrong-headed. However, since it was a tactical projection and given the possibility that this was merely for Chekov's education, I will withdraw that particular counter-argument. It was for fun anyway.

What boggles the mind, though, beyond your complete mishandling of that point, is that you continue to argue the original silly idea of yours, wherein Picard asking Data for an ETA to another system while on the bridge and seemingly having just received a message to go to said other system is evidence that warp velocities are hard to calculate and feature myriad variables.

What you are basically doing is injecting an unnecessary claim and demanding that it be disproven. Something as simple as Picard not knowing the ETA to another system and asking for it is a very simple concept and requires no additional information.

It doesn't mean that we need to inject pet theories. I mean, I could just as easily insert other "oh it is so complicated for Picard" pet theories that warp cores run too hot to leave running while in orbit and that PIcard asked Data because it was too complicated to figure the travel time plus engineering time requirements. Or I could say that they actually had the dilithium crystals out for realignment. Or that they were surrounded by invisible asteroids that they would have to navigate through. Or that they were going to have to go through that Hekaras Corridor thingy to get there. Or that they were near a phalanx of the DMZ or Neutral Zone or some other thing that they were going to have to go around. Or that they were probably going to have to fight their way through invisible pink unicorns with Type X phaser banks on their hooves and antimatter warheads that launch from their horns.

Asking you to disprove these things is silly, and logically unnecessary. Picard asked Data because he wanted to know and that was the fastest and most appropriate method. There is no evidence for any additional complications beyond distance and speed, and your attempt to rewrite the episode into the message being received hours earlier and the conversation being part of some sort of staff meeting where everybody should've come well-prepared for their all-important mission to the Phelan system is dishonest.

If you want to find evidence for your pet theory, look elsewhere, and stop making it up. Quit mucking up this awesome, informative thread with illogical and dishonest garbage.

Thank you.

[Who is like God arbour]

From the TNG episode »Future Imperfect«:

• • • • • • RIKER
        If we left immediately, when would we arrive at Outpost Twenty Three?
        
        • • DATA
        At Warp One, in three days, four hours...
        
        • • RIKER
        How about at Warp Seven?
        • (to Data's silence)
        At Warp Eight?
        At Warp Nine?
        What's wrong, Data?
        What happened to all those millions of calculations per second?
        
        • • DATA
        Pardon me, sir... but I am receiving subspace interference which limits my abilities. I can't operate as quickly as...

Even with the alleged subspace interference that limited Datas abilities, he should have been able to calculate the needed time to reach Outpost Twenty Three. Other malfunctions weren't shown so that he still should be abe to do a simple mental arithmetic calculation - if it were only a matter of distance and speed.

And also the alleged Romulan computer system - which was able to create a simulation of Data - should be able to calculate the needed time - if it were only a matter of distance and speed.

And also the Alien computer system - which was able to create the simulation of the Romulans with their simulation - should have been able to calculate the needed time - if it were only a matter of distance and speed.



To me it seems indeed a little bit more complex to calculate how long it needs to travel a distance with different warp factors.

Maybe a warp factor is difficult to convert into a speed.

Or maybe the speed with a certain warp factor is not always the same. Maybe it depends on the characteristics of the space they are flying through.

[2046]

Oh c'mon, the same alien mind scanner couldn't figure out the bridge on the first try, either... I sincerely hope that we are not reduced to this style of argument here. I have no intention of chasing these shadows.

[Who is like God arbour]

We only know that the simulated Romulan mind scanner couldn't figure out the bridge for their simulation on the first try. Maybe that was wanted as part of the simulation or maybe it was indeed a deficit of the alien mind scanner.

But that's irrelevant.

A deficit of the mind scanner has no relevance for the question how difficult it is for the used holographic computer system (mind scanner ≠ holographic computer system) to calculate the needed time for a certain distance with a certain warp factor.

If a certain warp factor is always the same velocity and the distance is known, the computer system that interpreted the from the mind scanner received data and created first the simulation of the Enterprise with Data and later the simulation of the Romulans should be able to calculate the needed time with ease and without any noticeable delay.

• • • • With other words: The resolution of an X-ray computed tomography doesn't say much about the computing capacity of the attached computer system. I'm sure that even today each to a tomograph attached computer is able to calculate the needed time for a certain distance with a certain velocity in less than a second.
        
        And to be able to calculate that with warp one they would have needed three days, four hours ... to Outpost Twenty Three means that the distance between the position of the Enterprise and Outpost Twenty Three is already known. The only unknown variable in Rikers question would be the velocity with each warp factor.

The conclusion still stands: If the computer system that simulated Data was not able to calculate the needed time without noticeable delay, it seems to be a little bit more complex to calculate how long it needs to travel a distance with different warp factors.

[2046]

(''fro-slap)


It was not a simulated Romulan devi. .. oh nevermind. Look, you are trying to base a claim about warp from an unknown alien device's inability to probe Riker's mind for or make up even relatively simple things whenever he went off expectation (or without the alien child being involved).

That is such a stretch that the conclusion most certainly does not stand ... that is another house of cards a la Lucky's, and even features now the same odd episode modifications where it should somehow have more weight as a 'simulated Romulan device'.

I am perfectly willing to discuss genuine evidence for warp highways or speed variability or whatever it is you two are angling for, but this straw-grasping stuff is completely absurd.

[Who is like God arbour]

No: I am trying to base a claim about warp from what Riker said and how he reacted when the simulated Data was not able to calculate the needed time for their travel to Outpost Twenty Three at once.

It was not said that the alien mind probe was trying to probe from Rikers mind the needed time for their travel to Outpost Twenty Three.

Insofar this is a unnecessary assumption from you.

It is uneccessary because the needed time depends on the velocity. Knowing distance and velocity, the computer system that simulated Data could have calculated the needed time itself.

The distance to Outpost Twenty Three was known. Otherwise it would have been impossible for the simulated Data to say that they would need three days, four hours at warp one.

Insofar - if it were only a matter of distance and velocity - it would be simpler for the computer system to calculate the needed time itself using the already known distance and given velocity than to wait until Riker has calculated the answer to his own question and than probe this answer from his brain.

The latter also premises that Riker really was calculating the answer to his question. But usually a question implies that the answer is not known and hence asked for. I see nothing that implies that Riker already knew the answer to his questions.

One could argue that he was already suspicious and wanted to test Data. But again this makes only sense if it is a little bit more complex to calculate how long it needs to travel a distance with different warp factors. If it were only a matter of distance and velocity, it were not difficult to calculate the answer.

Why would Riker test Data with a question that - according to you - is not difficult?

As a test the question are only making sense if Riker could hope to overtax the suspected impersonator but could expect that the real Data would be able to pass.

Anyway: The assumption that each answer on a question from Riker first had to be probed from his brain does not make sense in the first place - especially in cases where Riker could not know the answer. Insofar the simulation had to be creative around the personal information that it could probe from Rikers brain. But the question how long it needs to travel a certain distance with a certain verlocity is not personal and not something that has to be probed from Rikers brain. Again: If it were only a matter of distance and velocity, the simulated Data respective the computer that simulated Data would habe been able to do the math without waiting that Riker has done it, probing the answer from his brain and giving it to him.

That the simulated Data respective the computer that simulated Data could not do the calculation implies that it is a more complex calculation - one that needs millions of calculations per second - one from which Riker could expect that the suspected impersonator couldn't do it - but one the real Data who can do millions of calculations per second could have done.