Warp Speeds List

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:01 pm

Lucky wrote:Large=/= power
I don't see how that's relevant, it was stated to have a greater than normal gravitational field.

Worf: "We have entered a massive gravitational field, Captain."
Data: "There are no stars or other stellar bodies listed on our navigational charts. However, sensors indicate the presence of an extremely strong gravitational source in this vicinity."


Lucky wrote:"Once More Unto The Breach"
WORF: We could disrupt their warp fields with an inverse graviton burst. It would force them to drop to impulse until the gravitons dissipated.
"inverse graviton" "disrupt... warp field"

This says nothing about gravity affecting a ship's speed at warp. It merely states that <insert nonexistent thing here> can force a ship out of warp by <something done unto them>.

Also, it wouldn't matter anyway. Being forced out of warp is very different than being slowed down while at warp, for one your warp field is still intact.


Drag on the engines (i.e. something having an effect on their speed) while at warp is considered highly unusual.

VOY: "The Swarm":
Paris: "Captain, something is wrong."
Janeway: "What do you mean?"
Paris: "It's like there's a drag on the engines."

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:27 pm

359 wrote: I don't see how that's relevant, it was stated to have a greater than normal gravitational field.

Worf: "We have entered a massive gravitational field, Captain."
Data: "There are no stars or other stellar bodies listed on our navigational charts. However, sensors indicate the presence of an extremely strong gravitational source in this vicinity."
They are sensing the gravitational pull of a star, and given there is a star inside the sphere, I'm inclined to think that is "massive gravitational field" they are sensing. For what ever reason the sphere has a very low g.

359 wrote:
"inverse graviton" "disrupt... warp field"

This says nothing about gravity affecting a ship's speed at warp. It merely states that <insert nonexistent thing here> can force a ship out of warp by <something done unto them>.

Also, it wouldn't matter anyway. Being forced out of warp is very different than being slowed down while at warp, for one your warp field is still intact.


Drag on the engines (i.e. something having an effect on their speed) while at warp is considered highly unusual.
Every time I see someone disregard a quote purely on the grounds of the dialog being a bit overly technical I just roll my eye, and want to yell in the person's ear to check the definitions of the words .
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inverse wrote: Full Definition of INVERSE
1
:  opposite in order, nature, or effect
2
:  being an inverse function <inverse sine>


Examples of INVERSE
1. Addition and subtraction are inverse operations.
Worf created an anti-gravity field to disable the warp-drives on some other ships, and it shows that external gravitational fields can negatively effect a ships warp capabilities.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:46 am

Lucky wrote:They are sensing the gravitational pull of a star, and given there is a star inside the sphere, I'm inclined to think that is "massive gravitational field" they are sensing. For what ever reason the sphere has a very low g.
Star's normal gravity or not, they didn't notice it as having an unusual effect on their warp drive. So if a star's gravity doesn't affect warp velocities then there is no justification for variable speeds based on gravity. Because that's where most gravity comes from.

Lucky wrote:Every time I see someone disregard a quote purely on the grounds of the dialog being a bit overly technical I just roll my eye, and want to yell in the person's ear to check the definitions of the words .
It wasn't just "overly technical" it was entirely fictitious.

Lucky wrote:Worf created an anti-gravity field to disable the warp-drives on some other ships, and it shows that external gravitational fields can negatively effect a ships warp capabilities.
Other than <insert nonexistent thing here> has a binary effect on warp drive, it doesn't prove anything.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 2046 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:57 am

Praxis still seems a jump for me.

In any case, kudos for moving to an evidence-based argument instead of that weird stuff.

Worst case, though, if parsing the inconsistencies in the canon, I have the sense that warp navigation is probably akin to bullet ballistics. If you have a velocity and a time you have a distance (or a velocity and distance nets you a time), but in the case of a bullet there are variables that do slightly affect things and which true maestros might calculate. But the percentage of difference compared to the simple man's estimate is negligible for most purposes.

(Yeah, your bullet might drop a few extra inches at 1000 yards depending on humidity, wind heading, ground temperature, and all sorts of other stuff, but the absolute difference in angle is minimal (well, unless you're the target).)

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Lucky » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:58 am

359 wrote: Star's normal gravity or not, they didn't notice it as having an unusual effect on their warp drive. So if a star's gravity doesn't affect warp velocities then there is no justification for variable speeds based on gravity. Because that's where most gravity comes from.
Tomorrow is Yesterday wrote: Captain 's log Stardate 3113.2. We were en-route to Starbase 9 for resupply when a black star of high gravitational attraction began to drag us toward it. It required all warp power in reverse to pull us away from the star. But, like snapping a rubber band, the breakaway sent us plunging through space, out of control, to stop here, wherever we are.
Parallax wrote: JANEWAY: Report!

SESKA: We're running into some kind of spatial distortion.

JANEWAY: Mister Tuvok!

TUVOK: The distortions are emanating from a highly localized disturbance in the space-time continuum. Distance, twenty thousand kilometres off the port bow.

JANEWAY: All stop. On screen. Gravimetric flux density is over two thousand percent. If I'm not mistaken, we're looking at a type four quantum singularity.

TUVOK: Captain, I am receiving an audio transmission from within the singularity.

JANEWAY: On speakers. 

(A female sounding voice, but the words are garbled.) 

KIM: I think I've found the source of the transmission. 

(The distant image of a ship appears on the viewscreen against the black hole.) 

JANEWAY: Does it look like any ship you're familiar with?

NEELIX: No, nothing I recognise. But then it's, it's so hard to make out.

JANEWAY: They may be trapped in the event horizon. Open a channel. This is Captain Kathryn Janeway of the Starship Voyager to the vessel near the quantum singularity. Do you need help?
I'm pretty sure there was an entire solar system they didn't know about suddenly being found once or twice.

359 wrote: It wasn't just "overly technical" it was entirely fictitious.
It's pretty much required for warp drives to work as i understand it.

359 wrote: Other than <insert nonexistent thing here> has a binary effect on warp drive, it doesn't prove anything.
So we just pretend the United Federation of Planets doesn't use anti-gravity devices?

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:16 pm

DS9: "Defiant":

Bashir: "Major, the scheduled transport's been delayed and I need those medical supplies by the end of the week."
Kira: "We can't spare a runabout to go all the way to Vulcan right now."
Bashir: "I'm supposed to setting up a field hospital for a new colony on Campor Three next week. If I don't have get those medical supplies, the entire colonisation schedule could be set back by at least"


Bashir requests a runabout in order to travel to Vulcan to retrieve medical supplies. He states that he needs the medical supplies by the end of the week, so he must make a round trip to and from Vulcan in less than seven days.

Vulcan is roughly 15 ly from Earth, and as discussed previously in this thread, DS9 is most likely between 4,000 ly and 2,000 ly from Earth. So Bashir would need to travel between 8,000 ly and 4,000 ly.

Runabouts are not known for their speed, as mentioned by Dukat. And as also discussed earlier, runabouts max out somewhere between warp 5 and warp 8.

So, in this instance, the runabout would need to travel a little more than either 417,537c or 208,768c to make the trip in time at warp 5 to 8.

Warp: unknown (probably 5 to 8); Distance: 8,000 ly or 4,000 ly; Time: <7 days

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:33 pm

TNG: "11001001":

10: "It is a great pleasure"
01: "to work on such a large mobile computer."
Picard: "You have forty eight hours, because at forty eight plus six we have an appointment at Pelleus Five we must keep."
01: "I thought we'd"
10: "have more time."
Picard: "I'm sorry. This mission can't be delayed. If you want to postpone the work?"


Picard says that six hours after they have completed repairs the Enterprise needs to be at Pelleus Five, in a different system.

Given the normal minimum distance between solar systems outside the galactic core this is at least a five light-year journey assuming Pelleus is even an adjacent system.

Usually starships do not travel at high or maximum warp, so the trip is likely to be taken at warp six or five. This gives a minimum speed of 7,305 c for warp 6 in this instance.

Warp: unknown, 6 likely; Time: <= 6 hours; Distance: >= 5 ly

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:39 am

Interesting that you bring up that episode and the minimum times required to reach a nearby star system. In that same episode, the Bynars hijacked the E-D and took it to their home planet to use the ship's computer to restore their own and save their people. The actual time it takes the E-D to get there is not very long at all, if we go literally by what is shown onscreen. The events are as follows:

- The E-D is shown flying out of Starbase 74 because of the false containment failure set up by the Bynars. Riker and Picard are still on board in the holodeck unaware of what is happening.

- A few minutes later, Riker and Picard figure out something is wrong and leave the holodeck and discover what has happened. They go over to engineering the following conversation takes place:

PICARD: If we don't regain control, then no one else must have it either. Now, this is the one decision involving the operation of this vessel which requires you and I to be in total agreement.

RIKER: It's the time allotted that concerns me.

PICARD: As to that, there's no option.

RIKER: I know. It's a five minute countdown.

PICARD: That's sufficient to get to the Bridge. Once there, either we'll get control of the ship and shut off the auto-destruct, or we won't. This vessel must not fall into hostile hands.

RIKER: Then let's set it and get going.
(They place their hands on computer screens)

COMPUTER: (male) Recognise Picard, Jean-Luc, Captain. Recognise Riker, William T, Commander.

PICARD: Set auto-destruct sequence.

COMPUTER: Does the First Officer concur?

RIKER: Yes. Set auto-destruct sequence. Now.

COMPUTER: Auto-destruct will detonate in four minutes and fifty-nine seconds.

PICARD: The only place we can stop this is on the Bridge. Let's go.


This establishes that they only have less than 5 minutes to get to the bridge. Add in perhaps another 15 minutes (it's less than that as shown onscreen, but I'm accounting for some additional time due to jump cuts) from the time the E-D left SB 74 and that brings everything up to 20 minutes. The two beam into the bridge because the turbolift doors are disabled. The beam in with time to spare on the self-destruct:

(Picard and Riker beam in but there is no resistance. The four Bynars are lying propped up against each other, and do not seem well)

RIKER: Over here, Captain.

PICARD: Why did you steal my ship?

ONE ZERO: Please try to

ZERO ONE: help us.

(They pass out again. The Enterprise enters planetary orbit as the countdown passes two minutes)

PICARD: Cancel auto-destruct.

COMPUTER: (male) Does the First Officer agree?

RIKER: Affirmative.

COMPUTER: Auto-destruct cancelled.

RIKER: We're in orbit around Bynaus. How are they?


As the readout showed, they still had 2 minutes left, so only 3 had passed and the ship was apparently already in orbit around Bynaus. So at most 18 minutes to get there from Starbase 74.

This is pretty damn impressive. Assuming Tarsas Three with SB 74 and Bynar are only a parsec apart (3.26 light years), that's 1,189.9 light days, which is 28,557.6 light hours, which in turn is 1,713,456 light minutes. So, 1,713,456/18 = 95,192c. No precise warp speed is given, but Data says this:

DATA: Alert starbase. Inform them we are abandoning the ship. Tell them why. Initiate automated sequence for departure. Set course and speed course and speed to put maximum distance between the Enterprise and any inhabited planets.

So maybe warp 9. Also interesting here is that they were concerned about being too close to any inhabited planets that they had to go to high warp, which would clear the star system entirely in a matter of seconds! But that's another issue for another time.

So 95,192c for warp 9+
-Mike
Last edited by Mike DiCenso on Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:16 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:Interesting that you bring up that episode and the minimum times required to reach a nearby star system. In that same episode, the Bynars hijacked the E-D and took it to their home planet to use the ship's computer to restore their own and save their people. The actual time it takes the E-D to get there is not very long at all, if we go literally by what is shown onscreen. The events are as follows:

- The E-D is shown flying out of Starbase 74 because of the false containment failure set up by the Bynars. Riker and Picard are still on board in the holodeck unaware of what is happening.

- A few minutes later, Riker and Picard figure out something is wrong and leave the holodeck and discover what has happened. They go over to engineering the following conversation takes place:
I had thought about doing that, but upon closer inspection I decided there was no way to tell exactly how long they had been in the holodeck since their departure from starbase-74.

Although now giving it a second look over, directly after the scene where Picard and Riker discover what's going on, Data has just started to try and come up with courses of action, so the delay is unlikely to be more than a couple of minutes at most.

Mike DiCenso wrote:So maybe warp 9. Also interesting here is that they were concerned about being too close to any inhabited planets that they had to go to high warp, which would clear the star system entirely in a matter of seconds! But that's another issue for another time.
To go from Earth orbital distance to Neptune orbital distance (≈30 au) in one minute requires approximately 250 c. So to exit a solar system in, say 5 seconds would require a velocity of about 3000 c.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:38 am

359 wrote: Although now giving it a second look over, directly after the scene where Picard and Riker discover what's going on, Data has just started to try and come up with courses of action, so the delay is unlikely to be more than a couple of minutes at most.
Probably a few minutes, yes, but I was trying to be fairly conservative on the off hand chance that the jump cuts from one scene to the next represent up to several minutes of time apiece. In reality, the whole narrative is contiguous in flow in such a way that suggests that we are seeing fairly close to in universe real time, most especially after Riker and Picard activate the auto destruct.

Mike DiCenso wrote:So maybe warp 9. Also interesting here is that they were concerned about being too close to any inhabited planets that they had to go to high warp, which would clear the star system entirely in a matter of seconds! But that's another issue for another time.
359 wrote: To go from Earth orbital distance to Neptune orbital distance (≈30 au) in one minute requires approximately 250 c. So to exit a solar system in, say 5 seconds would require a velocity of about 3000 c.
Oh that's true enough, but I meant this from a ship power generation standpoint. The E-D having to get so far away implies a staggering amount of energy release from any potential explosion that it actually endangers a planet such that they have to get so far away so fast.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by 359 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:22 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Probably a few minutes, yes, but I was trying to be fairly conservative on the off hand chance that the jump cuts from one scene to the next represent up to several minutes of time apiece. In reality, the whole narrative is contiguous in flow in such a way that suggests that we are seeing fairly close to in universe real time, most especially after Riker and Picard activate the auto destruct.
I definitely agree, I was only adding more specifics for the cut from the Enterprise's departure from starbase 74 to when they are then seen on the holodeck. Otherwise it could be argued to anywhere around an hour of a time gap, with all those empty hallway shots and Riker finishing up some story.

Mike DiCenso wrote:Oh that's true enough, but I meant this from a ship power generation standpoint. The E-D having to get so far away implies a staggering amount of energy release from any potential explosion that it actually endangers a planet such that they have to get so far away so fast.
Ah, I see. This seems a bit reminiscent of some recent Deathstar calculations.

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:50 pm

From Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country we have this remarkable quote:

KERLA: Captain Kirk, I thought Romulan ale was illegal.

KIRK: One of the advantages of being a thousand light years from Federation headquarters.

McCOY: To you, Chancellor Gorkon, one of the architects of our future.

ALL: Chancellor!


This is the only explicit reference I know of to the actual distance from Earth to the Klingon border. The context is that Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise-A have been sent out to escort the Klingon Chancellor Gorkon back through Federation space to a peace conference. The conference is definitely to be held on Earth:

KIRK: Chancellor. We've been ordered to escort you through Federation space to your meeting on Earth.

And I know of no reference to Starfleet headquarters being on any other planet than Earth. So with that in mind, the next big question mark is how long was all of this supposed to take:

KIRK: Let them die! ...Has it occurred to you that this crew is due to stand down in three months? We've done our bit for King and Country. ...You should have trusted me.

This quote brackets a time frame from which we can reasonably provide a conservative estimate of how long it would take for the E-A to get out there and back again since the ship and crew are due to be out of service in 3 months. So the following assumptions and this is all very conservative: It would take the E-A three months to get there and back again and that the ship is going full speed round trip. So 1,000 light years x 2 = 2,000 light years which is 730,000 light days, which is then divided by 90 days = 8,111.111c. That's pretty decent all things considered and the effects shots show that the ship is not going absolutely full out in speed while escorting Kronos One to Earth:

Image

The stars are not streaking as when we usually see ships at high warp in the TOS, though it may be intentional to allow time for adjustment and for social functions on the way like the dinner Kirk put on for Gorkon and his entourage, etc. Afterwords, the ships might then go full speed. But I think its reasonably safe to say that 8,111c is the low-end here, especially since we know the relatively primitive and slow NX-01 can make the trip in 4 days, which would be better than 182,500c. Also, the E-A was not stood down until the end of the movie, so there was a lot of time left in there for the planning and positioning of everyone for the second attempt at a peace conference at Kitomer which was to take place in about one week's time from after the assassination:

AZETBUR (on viewscreen): Mister President, let us come to the point. You want the conference to go forward and so did my father. I will attend in one week, on one condition. We will not extradite the prisoners and you will make no attempt to rescue them in a military operation. We would consider any such attempt an act of war.

So we again have another time bracket here since there was undoubtably a few days that went by while Kronos One went back to Klingon space and everyone assessed what to do next. But it is interesting that everything could go forward in just a week at another location so easily, giving some indication that the E-A and Kronos One would not have spent about 6 weeks going to Earth as per the original plan.

So 8,111c conservatively and perhaps 182,500c or better on the high end of things.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:36 pm

While considering my reply to Brian Young, I found this example of warp speed from TOS' "Arena"

(Kirk suddenly appears in front of the crew, who all leap to their feet.)

UHURA: Captain! Are you all right?

KIRK: I don't know. I don't know. All right, everybody. Back to your posts. Let's get out of here.

SULU: Captain.

KIRK: Mister Sulu.

SULU: It's impossible, but there's Sirius over there when it should be here. And Canopus. And Arcanis. We're. All of a sudden, we're clear across the galaxy, five hundred parsecs from where we are I mean, were. I mean

KIRK: Don't try and figure it out, Mister Sulu. Just plot a course for us back to Cestus Three.

SULU: Aye, aye, sir.


Now 500 parsecs is 1,630 light years or 594,950 light days. To travel across that distance at a mere l,000c would mean a 595 day trip, or just under 20 months. This means the ship would've consumed almost two years of the 5 year mission just getting back to Cestus III, and that obviously did not happen. Since the following week the ship has another adventure and a year later is back at Earth, that means to make the trip in any reasonable length of time (14 days or less), the ship must be doing better than 50,000c on average.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:16 pm

TOS is just chock full of these examples, this one from "Return to Tomorrow" :

SULU: The reading's growing stronger, Captain. Coming from a star system directly ahead.

UHURA: It's not a signal, sir. It does not seem to even exist, and yet it's affecting all my channels.

KIRK: Well?

SPOCK: Someone or something is attempting to attract our attention.

KIRK: Someone or something has succeeded. Our distress signal relays have been activated. We've been given a direction to follow, but how? What's causing it?

SPOCK: I do not know. Not even a Vulcan can know the unknown, Captain. We are hundreds of light years past where any Earth ship has ever explored.


Hundreds of light years past any previous exploration point. The previous episode "A Private Little War", takes place at or very near the Klingon-Federation border. So the Enterprise got from there to hundreds of light years out and then back again for "Patterns of Force" in a matter of mere weeks. If we assume that by "hundreds of light years" Spock means only 200 light years, that means 73,000 light days, or 73 days one-way at 1,000c, 146 days or 5 months round trip. That's some pretty significant travel time that eats out of the 5 year mission. But if one week out and back we have 146,000 light days/14 = 10,428c. And that's the lower limit. We can easily squeeze 31,000c out of this if we assume 800-900 light years.
-Mike

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Re: Warp Speeds List

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:09 pm

Continuing further research into TOS warp speeds, I found something interesting in the season two episode "The Gamesters of Triskelion". The context is that while preparing to beam down on a mission to Gamma Two, an uninhabited planetoid with an automatic communications and astrogation station, the landing party consisting of Kirk, Chekov, and Uhura are kidnapped by a race of powerful beings called the Providers, who steal members of different races from all over the galaxy and use them for brutal blood sports. Meanwhile Spock, McCoy and Scotty search for their missing crewmates and friends. Here is the relevant interesting dialog during the search:

SPOCK: They are not within the confines of this solar system.

MCCOY: It's been nearly an hour. Can people live that long as disassembled atoms in a transporter beam?


This occurs after the kidnapping of the landing party from off the Enterprise's transporter pad and Kirk and company have been forced to endure brutal induction and training among the Providers' Thralls. Later Spock and the Enterprise crew determine via sensors that the landing party is not in the Gamma system at all and we get this:


SPOCK: Captain's log, stardate 3259.2. First Officer Spock in command. The Captain, Lieutenant Uhura, and Ensign Chekov have been missing for nearly two hours. Computer probability projections are useless due to insufficient data.

HAINES: (A woman in gold uniform at Spock's station) Mister Spock, I'm getting a fluctuating energy reading on this hydrogen cloud. It's faint, sir, but it consistently reads an excess of predictable energy level.

SPOCK: Interesting. It seems to be an ionisation trail.

MCCOY: What would account for that, Spock?

SPOCK: Exactly the question I have just fed to the computers, Doctor. And the answer is, nothing known to us would account for it.

SCOTT: Well, the transporter has neither the power nor the range to account for that.

SPOCK: Plot a follow course, Ensign Haines.

HAINES: (now in Chekov's seat) Aye, sir.

MCCOY: You're going to leave here without them and run off on some wild goose chase halfway across the galaxy just because you found a discrepancy in a hydrogen cloud?
SPOCK: Doctor, I am chasing the Captain, Lieutenant Uhura, and Ensign Chekov, not some wild aquatic fowl. This is the only lead we've had.

HAINES: Course plotted and laid in.

SPOCK: Initiate. Warp factor two.


So they have detected the ionization trail left by the Providers' transport beam and are pursuing off at warp 2 only, and 2 hours has passed from when Kirk and crew, who continue to continue to endure brutal treatment at the hands of the Providers and the Thralls in between when they were captured and when the second piece of relevant dialog occurs. The next important piece comes a short while later:

MCCOY: This is ridiculous. There's nothing out there. Nothing at all.

SCOTT: We certainly seem to be heading into an empty sector.

SPOCK: Projecting back along the path of ionisation, the nearest system is M two four alpha.

SCOTT: That must be two dozen light years away.

SPOCK:
Eleven point six three zero.

MCCOY: Are you suggesting that they could have transported over a distance of? You're out of your Vulcan mind, Spock.

SPOCK: I'm suggesting nothing, Doctor. I am merely pursuing the only logical course available to us.


So, only hours are going by, and the ship may still only be at warp 2, but now we know the nearest system is some 11.63 light years away, though it has been some time since the Enterprise left the Gamma system

SPOCK: Mister Scott, can we manage anything faster than warp six?

SCOTT: It's my opinion that we've gone too far as it is, sir.

MCCOY: He's right, Spock. We've lost Jim and the others on Gamma Two. Now you've dragged us a dozen light years on some wild hunch that

SPOCK: Doctor, I do not respond to hunches. No transporter malfunction was responsible for the disappearance. They were not within the Gamma system. A focused beam of extremely high-intensity light was directed into the Gamma system from the trinary system we are now approaching. No known natural phenomena could have caused that beam. Does that clarify the situation?

MCCOY: No, it doesn't. It's still a fancy way of saying that you're playing a hunch. well, my hunch is that they're back on Gamma Two dead or alive and I still want another search.

SCOTT: Doctor McCoy speaks for me, too, sir.

SPOCK: I see. (pause) Gentlemen, I am in command of this vessel, and we shall continue on our present course. (conspiratorial whisper) Unless it is your intention to declare a mutiny.

SCOTT; Mister Spock!

MCCOY: Who said anything about a mutiny, you stubborn, pointed-eared. All right. If we don't find them here, do we still have another search on Gamma Two?

SPOCK: Agreed. Mister Scott, could you manage warp seven?

SCOTT: I would be more than content to do so, sir, and maybe a wee bit more.

SPOCK: Ensign, warp seven.


So the ship may have accelerated or be prepared to go to warp six, but at the end of the conversation is ordered to warp 7, which is not the fastest speed the ship can go, but still on the higher end of things, still there has been some time of searching back along the ionization trail to the star system they are approaching. Finally this after a relatively short interval of Kirk and company attempting escape and enduring yet more brutal treatment:

HAINES: Standard orbit. SPOCK: Sensors indicate only one concentration of life forms on the planet, on the lower hemisphere. Humanoid readings.

MCCOY: Well, at least that gives our landing force a starting point.


So they reach the planet after what cannot be more than mere hours at most and this after accelerating to warp 7 from possibly warp 6, or even just warp 2. So the following can be derived from the episode. Two hours were spent searching the Gamma system looking for the landing party, then the ship sets out across a dozen light years to reach the Providers world of Triskelion, which means based on the events seen and experienced by the landing party and all other dialog, only mere hours went by to cross that distance. There is certainly no indication that a full day went by, or lighting conditions on the planet indicating day-night cycle to show such. So perhaps at most 6 hours total went by, with 4 or so of that of that being the Enterprise making the transit and accelerating from warp 2 to warp 7. So the following: 12 light years x 365 = 4,380 light days. If it took the Enterprise a whole day to get there, that is the lowest warp speed we could reasonably derive from this, but there is no indication of that, so 4,380 light days x 24 = 105,120 light hours. Given that the flow of the search and the training only took about 30 to 40 minutes after the 2 hour estimate is given to search Gamma 2 and the system, it would be tempting to argue for mere minutes, but I feel that would be disingenuous and self-serving. So 10 hours is the number I will use. So 105,120 light hours divided by 10 =
10,512c. This is remarkably close to the low-end average of the "Return to Tomorrow" quote, which in turn helps to establish TOS medium range warp speeds.

So warp 7 = 10,512c

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