Warp Speeds List

[Lucky]

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, rough parity among contemporary near-equal regimes is the best presumption. If you show me an American and Soviet fighter from the 1960s, it does not make sense to assume that one can do Mach 6 and the other Mach 2.

In the case of Cardassia, however, the situation is worse, since we know that their technology was somewhat behind that of the Federation before the war, though evidence suggests they were catching up.

Well, i can see why we come to such different conclusions. You are comparing shuttles and runabouts to fighter jets, and I am comparing them to vans or humvee.

The runabout is certainly not a star trek equivalent of a jet fighter. We see purpose built fighters used by the Federation, and they are not the class of runabout used by the staff of Deep space 9.

If you want to look at things from a military perspective then why not use aircraft in general? The US military alone uses several models with varying capabilities. It all comes down to what the two designs are meant to do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ac ... y_aircraft

If the Carddi design is meant for speed and only speed then it need not be as advanced as a slower design meant to do everything.

Here's the revised version of that paragraph from my reactivated blog:

Also, most interestingly, in "The Jem'Hadar"[DSN2], Jake Sisko orders the Rio Grande computer to set a course for DS9 at warp eight. The computer doesn't reject his command on the grounds of velocity correction, but simply notes that the autopilot is not functional. Of course, it might've reacted the same way if he'd ordered warp 13, but the interesting part to ponder is that Jake ordered it at all. You see, a plot point with this episode (and indeed, the early part of the series . . . see "Civil Defense") is that Jake had been assisting Chief O'Brien with assorted maintenance duties, and in this episode we are told that he'd been assisting with runabout maintenance.

Warp eight is a very odd figure to choose if you are desperately asking for a fast speed and unclear on the vessel's maximum velocity. Why not nine, or 9.9 even? Put simply, Jake wouldn't exactly be my go-to guy for tech questions, but he's not completely ignorant, and I think that particular order to the computer is indicative of what he knew of the vessel's velocity capabilities.

Personally, I find this to be fair evidence for warp eight as an attainable velocity for runabouts. It is not absolute proof, but like the Kira search I don't think it is disproof, either.

We do now have a likely upper limit, however. In "The Maquis, Pt. II" we have Dukat noting that the Xepolite freighter they were parked alongside was capable of warp 9.8, so that if it made a run for it at warp the runabout would never catch up. So, the runabout is probably capable of warp eight but almost certainly not capable of 9.8.

"Dax" shows they expected warp 5 or higher craft to be used as get away vehicles. This would imply that the class of runabout used by DS9 is at best warp 5. The get away ship would have to be at least as fast as the runabout to be able to escape.

Jake Sisko is not a pilot, and is just a kid with little interest in military hardware you could say. He'd know enough to know what a proper warp factor is, but he might not know what warp factor a given ship can reach.

[2046]

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, rough parity among contemporary near-equal regimes is the best presumption. If you show me an American and Soviet fighter from the 1960s, it does not make sense to assume that one can do Mach 6 and the other Mach 2.

In the case of Cardassia, however, the situation is worse, since we know that their technology was somewhat behind that of the Federation before the war, though evidence suggests they were catching up.

Well, i can see why we come to such different conclusions. You are comparing shuttles and runabouts to fighter jets, and I am comparing them to vans or humvee.

Not a basis of comparison, just an example of the concept of parity which you dismiss. Give me any two vehicles with the same mission among contemporary adversary powers and I will assume parity there, too, barring evidence to the contrary. It is the correct default assumption, barring evidence to the contrary.

Do you have evidence to the contrary? Do you have any evidence that the mission profiles of the Cardassian, Romulan, and Federation runabii are sufficiently different to produce a reasonable suggestion of wildly different top speeds? I believe that answer is no. You are therefore arguing that they *may* differ, which is true, but you have provided no evidence of such, nor do I believe you can. It therefore follows that we keep to the reasonable default assumption of parity.

"Dax" shows they expected warp 5 or higher craft to be used as get away vehicles. This would imply that the class of runabout used by DS9 is at best warp 5. The get away ship would have to be at least as fast as the runabout to be able to escape.

I've already addressed and deflated this point. Why bring it up again? Ugh.

No, "Dax" shows that when ordered to survey docked ships with high warp capability, Kira surveyed any with warp five and above per whatever source of information she was using.

Imagine you're in a sea port and a similar situation is occurring. You have on-hand a vessel which you may know to be capable of 8 knots, and someone's about to try to get away after a daring clandestine maneuver indicative of an intelligence-related raid. You have, docked, a number of vessels and you need to know their speed. Assuming you have immediate access to (a) the vessel papers and/or (b) information on their engines and screws that can be used to estimate a speed, are you simply going to look for any vessel capable of 8 knots or above? Or are you going to look for any threats which might have a higher speed than you are told they have?

Sisko's order to Kira was the latter.

Jake Sisko is not a pilot, and is just a kid with little interest in military hardware you could say. He'd know enough to know what a proper warp factor is, but he might not know what warp factor a given ship can reach.

He's not a pilot, but he knows more about the technology than we do. He lives in it and works on it. Given all the characters would he be my first choice to ask? No, but he's the only one who's talking.

[2046]

Here, Lucky, I'll help you a bit. Dukat, on a Runabout, pokes fun at it:

DUKAT: I can't help but notice that my controls are not illuminated. Isn't it customary for both seats to be turned on so that I may pilot the craft in the event of an emergency?
SISKO: If there's an emergency, I guess you're out of luck.
DUKAT: Commander, I'm not going to sit here and steal all your little technical secrets, I promise you.
SISKO: I appreciate your assurances, but Cardassians are famous for their photographic memories.
DUKAT: So you turn off my controls so I don't have enough light to take my photograph, is that it?
{...}
DUKAT: Is that a ramscoop control or a deflector grid panel? Just curious. It really doesn't matter. Cardassian pursuit vessels are years ahead of this design.

Now, your task is to provide evidence that the Cardassian shuttle is the referenced pursuit vessel and that Dukat was not just being an arrogant Cardie and should be trusted on this topic (given that not many years before Cardassian ship tech lagged behind significantly).

Update:

The same model, seeming cockpit windows and all, is used to represent the canonically-identified Hideki class "patrol ship" in "Tribunal". While the size is not clear in this instance, the vessel could be similarly sized to the "Profit and Loss" example, meaning the larger use of the model as a brown ship in fleet actions is likely not the Hideki. However, comparing against Birds of Prey similarly docked at the station (though thanks to David Stipes one never can say much about scaling in DS9), it appears the "Profit" 'shuttle' is actually on the order of two to three times the size of the runabout, compared with the "Tacking into the Wind" Cardie shuttle that is runabout size or smaller.

So, to sum up, while I stand by the notion that one should assume parity in the absence of reason to the contrary, I withdraw the point that the "Profit and Loss" vessel is the same as the one from "Tacking" and that it is similarly-sized to the runabout. But as that was only one point of several, I see no need to change the conclusion.

[Lucky]

Not a basis of comparison, just an example of the concept of parity which you dismiss. Give me any two vehicles with the same mission among contemporary adversary powers and I will assume parity there, too, barring evidence to the contrary. It is the correct default assumption, barring evidence to the contrary.

Do you have evidence to the contrary? Do you have any evidence that the mission profiles of the Cardassian, Romulan, and Federation runabii are sufficiently different to produce a reasonable suggestion of wildly different top speeds? I believe that answer is no. You are therefore arguing that they *may* differ, which is true, but you have provided no evidence of such, nor do I believe you can. It therefore follows that we keep to the reasonable default assumption of parity.

What I've been trying to say is that we don't know the mission profile of the Carddi shuttle.

We know the Federation has a number of shuttle designs with a number of mission profiles. A Runabout is a general purpose, relatively short range warp capable craft, and I highly doubt the Federation would just hand over their best tech to a non-member.

You could very well be correct, but we don't know because only have implicit information that could be interpreted in either direction. While I doubt you are correct you could be correct.

I've already addressed and deflated this point. Why bring it up again? Ugh.

No, "Dax" shows that when ordered to survey docked ships with high warp capability, Kira surveyed any with warp five and above per whatever source of information she was using.

Imagine you're in a sea port and a similar situation is occurring. You have on-hand a vessel which you may know to be capable of 8 knots, and someone's about to try to get away after a daring clandestine maneuver indicative of an intelligence-related raid. You have, docked, a number of vessels and you need to know their speed. Assuming you have immediate access to (a) the vessel papers and/or (b) information on their engines and screws that can be used to estimate a speed, are you simply going to look for any vessel capable of 8 knots or above? Or are you going to look for any threats which might have a higher speed than you are told they have?

Sisko's order to Kira was the latter.

My logic is sound.

1) They were looking for perspective getaway vehicles based on the belief the kidnappers knew the capabilities of the runabouts.

2) Fighting their way to safety was not an option for the kidnappers.

3) In order for the getaway craft to be able to run to safety the craft would need to be at least as fast as a runabout.

4) If the runabout was faster then the getaway craft then the getaway craft would not be able reach safety.

5) The crew of Deep Space Nine would logically first rule out all ships docked that are as fast or faster then a runabout.

6) The crew of Deep Space Nine started searching for ships that had warp 5 or higher capabilities or higher.

Therefor we can conclude that at the time of "Dax" the runabouts used on Deep Space Nine could not exceed warp 5.

He's not a pilot, but he knows more about the technology than we do. He lives in it and works on it. Given all the characters would he be my first choice to ask? No, but he's the only one who's talking.

So we have conflicting information from two sources.

In Dax we have the bridge crew state runabouts are limited to about warp 5, and it is the job of the bridge crew to know what ships are capable of.

Meanwhile we have Jake sisko say something that conflicts with "Dax", but it isn't Jake's job to know what a Runabout can do, and Jake does not have a notable interest in ships or technology.

I'm sure if you asked most teens in the real world who have no real interest in cars/planes/boiency operated aquatic transport how fast random but common car/plane/boiency operated aquatic transport can go they wouldn't be able to give you anything better then a guess. Heck, I've been trained in engine and electronics repair, but I can't rattle off the capabilities of the things that use what I've been taught to fix.

Here, Lucky, I'll help you a bit. Dukat, on a Runabout, pokes fun at it:

DUKAT: I can't help but notice that my controls are not illuminated. Isn't it customary for both seats to be turned on so that I may pilot the craft in the event of an emergency?

SISKO: If there's an emergency, I guess you're out of luck.

DUKAT: Commander, I'm not going to sit here and steal all your little technical secrets, I promise you.

SISKO: I appreciate your assurances, but Cardassians are famous for their photographic memories.

DUKAT: So you turn off my controls so I don't have enough light to take my photograph, is that it?

{...}

DUKAT: Is that a ramscoop control or a deflector grid panel? Just curious. It really doesn't matter. Cardassian pursuit vessels are years ahead of this design.

Now, your task is to provide evidence that the Cardassian shuttle is the referenced pursuit vessel and that Dukat was not just being an arrogant Cardie and should be trusted on this topic (given that not many years before Cardassian ship tech lagged behind significantly).

What episode are those quotes from?

There is nothing stupid about using a reliable and proven design, and the Federation has newer shuttle designs in service as well. The Federation seems to exceed the Cardassians in actual starship quality.

It actually is realistic for a power such as the Federation to be using a dated design. The OH-58 is a design that was first produced in the 60s, and it is still in production. There was a replacement program for it, but it was canceled on 2008, and now there is the "armed aerial scout program" that is looking to find a replacement for the OH-58, but that is still at least a year away from being finished.

Update:

The same model, seeming cockpit windows and all, is used to represent the canonically-identified Hideki class "patrol ship" in "Tribunal". While the size is not clear in this instance, the vessel could be similarly sized to the "Profit and Loss" example, meaning the larger use of the model as a brown ship in fleet actions is likely not the Hideki. However, comparing against Birds of Prey similarly docked at the station (though thanks to David Stipes one never can say much about scaling in DS9), it appears the "Profit" 'shuttle' is actually on the order of two to three times the size of the runabout, compared with the "Tacking into the Wind" Cardie shuttle that is runabout size or smaller.

So, to sum up, while I stand by the notion that one should assume parity in the absence of reason to the contrary, I withdraw the point that the "Profit and Loss" vessel is the same as the one from "Tacking" and that it is similarly-sized to the runabout. But as that was only one point of several, I see no need to change the conclusion.

The Klingons have about three classes of ship that look exactly the same, so there is president for different classes of ship looking exactly the same save for size.

That said, I have little faith in Deep Space Nine visuals being the reliable. They screwed up the defiant, the hero ship, for crying out loud.

[2046]

A Runabout is a general purpose, relatively short range warp capable craft, and I highly doubt the Federation would just hand over their best tech to a non-member.

It was a brand new class of ship.

I find it interesting that you doubt they'd hand over their best tech, yet also assume that they would reveal their exact top speed.

I've already addressed and deflated this point. Why bring it up again? Ugh.

No, "Dax" shows that when ordered to survey docked ships with high warp capability, Kira surveyed any with warp five and above per whatever source of information she was using.

Imagine you're in a sea port and a similar situation is occurring. You have on-hand a vessel which you may know to be capable of 8 knots, and someone's about to try to get away after a daring clandestine maneuver indicative of an intelligence-related raid. You have, docked, a number of vessels and you need to know their speed. Assuming you have immediate access to (a) the vessel papers and/or (b) information on their engines and screws that can be used to estimate a speed, are you simply going to look for any vessel capable of 8 knots or above? Or are you going to look for any threats which might have a higher speed than you are told they have?

Sisko's order to Kira was the latter.

My logic is sound.

I think mine is, too . . . I just think it's more applicable in context than yours. Let's look:

1) They were looking for perspective getaway vehicles based on the belief the kidnappers knew the capabilities of the runabouts.

True.

2) Fighting their way to safety was not an option for the kidnappers.

False. There is no support for this in context. Sisko would've already known they'd assaulted Starfleet officers.

3) In order for the getaway craft to be able to run to safety the craft would need to be at least as fast as a runabout.

Also iffy, given the above note about fighting . . . we've seen damaged vessels lose speed.

Alternately, just as the kidnappers disabled the tractor beam (which Sisko only realized a moment after his survey order, but which Kira knew of when she reported her results), the possibility would exist that they had done something that might delay runabout departures, which would provide another reason for the search to include vessels with a somewhat lower top speed than a runabout.

4) If the runabout was faster then the getaway craft then the getaway craft would not be able reach safety.

A freighter at cruising speed can get to the Badlands in mere hours. The Cardassian border is closer. So the ship would have to be only as fast as it needed to be to get wherever it needed to go to reach safety before the runabout could reach it, with or without combat.

5) The crew of Deep Space Nine would logically first rule out all ships docked that are as fast or faster then a runabout.

This would be nice, if it were possible. I submit that it is not.

This is why Sisko did not order them to check for ships faster than a runabout. He said to check for ships with a high warp capability. That is a distinction which you ignore.

And here we have reached the very crux of the argument, which you include in your points as if it is a given. It is not.

Again, let me reiterate that we do not know Kira's source of information. Vessel papers with a top speed listed? Could be falsified given the situation. A scan of the ships? It might provide a rough guess, but in "The Maquis" two-parter it was Dukat informing Sisko of the Xepolite top speed, not the runabout sensors. Indeed, I can't think of any instance of sensors telling of a ship's top speed with certainty.

6) The crew of Deep Space Nine started searching for ships that had warp 5 or higher capabilities or higher.

True.

Therefor we can conclude that at the time of "Dax" the runabouts used on Deep Space Nine could not exceed warp 5.

False.

In the absence of any other evidence it is one possible supposition, and obviously a very tempting one for many. However, I do not find it convincing by itself, and there is counterevidence elsewhere. Therefore, I do not support it, and neither should you.

He's not a pilot, but he knows more about the technology than we do. He lives in it and works on it. Given all the characters would he be my first choice to ask? No, but he's the only one who's talking.

So we have conflicting information from two sources.

In Dax we have the bridge crew state runabouts are limited to about warp 5, and it is the job of the bridge crew to know what ships are capable of.

Naughty boy. You have just declared your supposition about which we are debating to be the statement of the crew. That is false.

Meanwhile we have Jake sisko say something that conflicts with "Dax", but it isn't Jake's job to know what a Runabout can do, and Jake does not have a notable interest in ships or technology.

Jake is an assistant technician to Starfleet. He knew enough at the time to be able to successfully disable the autopilot. I'm pretty sure that makes him an expert compared to you and me.

Ironically, in that runabout incident he was the knowledgeable one and Nog was clueless. A few years later he was with Nog on a runabout in "Valiant" and Nog was the knowledgeable one, but Jake was still tasked with engineering duties while in battle with Jem'Hadar ships. And yet, he had been a reporter for some time.

There is nothing stupid about using a reliable and proven design, and the Federation has newer shuttle designs in service as well.

The runabout was a new class in 2368.

[2046]

Mike et al., may I suggest that the runabout top speed debate be spirited away to another thread? I feel like the warp velocities list part of the thread is suffering.

[359]

DS9: "The Quickening":

Kira: "The sensors just picked up two Jem'Hadar ships headed this way."
Kira: "The Jem'Hadar are leaving the Kendi system and looks like they're heading for the Obatta cluster."
Dax: "Sounds like they're on a patrol route which means this system is probably next."
Kira: "We'd better go. Stand by to get underway."
...
Kira: "All right, it's worth a try. We can't risk the Jem'Hadar detecting the runabout. I'll take it to the Jenkata Nebula."
Bashir: "Come back for us in a week. With any luck, we'll have a cure by then."

Star systems outside the galactic core are generally more than five light-years apart. We know that the Jem'Hadar appear to be on patrol, which suggest that they are traveling in what is close to a straight line and not just jumping from system to system at sharp angles (from the perspective of a star-chart). Given that the Jem'Hadar are two systems away, they are probably more than ten light-years distant from the runabout.

If the Jem'Hadar are almost within sensor range and the Runabout needs to leave immediately to avoid detection, and if it will take the full week until the Jem'Hadar are back out of range, the minimum distance the Jem'Hadar would have to cover in that week would be greater than twenty light-years. For a minimum speed of 1,040c for the Jem'Hadar fighters.

We do not know what warp velocity they are traveling at. Although it is unlikely that they were traveling at high warp because they were on a routine patrol mission through non-hostile territory.

Warp: Unknown, maximum unlikely; Time: <168 hours; Distance: >20 ly


TNG: "The Wounded":

LaForge: "And with long range sensors, we've been scanning a radius of ten light years. We can effectively scan one sector in a day."
...
Worf: "Long range sensors have located the Phoenix."
...
Picard: "Ensign, set a course, warp six. Mister Worf, send a message by subspace. Tell them to prepare for a rendezvous."
...
Picard: "Mister Data estimated time to intercept with the Phoenix."
Data: "At our present speed of warp four, sixteen hours, forty four minutes."
Picard: "Ensign, increase to warp nine."

The Phoenix is found by sensors at a range of 10 light-years from the Enterprise. The Enterprise then engages at warp six (or four???) toward the Phoenix, which is moving at warp as well.

Assuming a minimal gain (probably 0 to 2 light-years, I'll use two) on the Phoenix before jumping to warp nine, the Enterprise would need to cover between 8 and 10 light-years to get reach her. We know that, before the jump, the time to intercept was 16 h: 44 min, which would put warp 4 (6???) at 4,191c.

Warp: 4 (or 6; compromise at 5?); Time: 16 h: 44 min; Distance: 8 light-years (up to 10)

Later that episode...

Data: "Captain, the Phoenix has changed course."
Macet: "What is he doing?"
Picard: "Ensign, change course to pursue. Mister Worf, will you hail Captain Maxwell?"
Worf: "No response, sir."
Riker: "Data, project his new course."
Data: "Sir, the Phoenix is heading directly for a Cardassian vessel point one two light years from our location."
...
Picard: "Ensign, warp eight. Overtake him."
Data: "Captain, the Phoenix has accelerated to warp nine. We will not be able to reach him before he intercepts the Cardassian ship."
Picard: "Ensign, warp nine."
Helm Officer: "Aye, sir."
Picard: "Mister Worf, arm phasers. Continue the hail."
Worf: "Aye, sir."
Riker: "Captain, Chief O'Brien was Maxwell's Tactical officer."
Picard: "Get him up here."
...
Data: "Sir, the Phoenix has dropped out of warp. They have reached the Cardassian vessel."

The Phoenix changes course to intercept a Cardassian transport ship at high warp. The Enterprise then begins pursuit quickly accelerating to warp eight and then nine. Given the time shown on screen and the normal time it seems to take for someone to reach the bridge, the travel time was probably around five minutes, possibly fifteen, but certainly less than an hour. I'll use ten, for 52,604c at warp nine.

Warp: 9; Time: 10 min; Distance: 1 ly

[Mike DiCenso]

There is this bit of dialog from ST:ENT's "Horizon":

T'POL: The planet's orbit has shifted, taking it between two gas giants. Their gravitational pull is causing its core to superheat.

ARCHER: Starfleet thinks it will be covered with erupting volcanoes by the end of the week.

TRAVIS: This system's almost thirty light years behind us.

ARCHER: Admiral Forrest assures me it's only a temporary detour.

TUCKER: Some geologic fireworks. Could be fun.

ARCHER: Set a course.

TRAVIS: Aye, sir.

So the NX-01 is capable of crossing 30 light years in less than a week's time. Depending on how much less than a week, the speed could be anywhere from 1,500c to 2,500c. No warp speed is given and this is well before the modifications to the ship in season four that allow the ship to attain slightly higher than warp 5. So to be conservative, 1,500-2,500c for warp 4.5.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Here's another series of interesting quotes from ST:ENT, this time from the second season episode "Cease Fire":


TUCKER: (watching his glass vibrating on the table) I don't like pushing the engines this hard. The injectors are running at a hundred and ten percent.

T'POL: They're rated for one hundred and twenty.

TUCKER: And my underwear is flame-retardant. That doesn't mean I'm going to light myself on fire to prove it.

Then a bit later Archer makes a report:

Captain's Starlog, supplemental. In the three days it's taken us to reach Paan Mokar, the situation has grown considerably more tense.


And finally much later on:

ARCHER: This is a man who couldn't sleep because he thought he owed me something. I don't believe he asked me to come a dozen light years just so I could lead you into a trap. And right now it seems like the best thing to do is to get a cease-fire in place. The Andorians won't agree to that until they talk to you in person. I managed to keep us on course most of the way in. We can't be more than a kilometer from Shran's landing co-ordinates.


Archer and the crew of the NX-01 have been asked to make all due haste to the disputed planetoid. We learn from these quotes that the ship took approximately 3 days to travel over about 12 light years while pushing the engines. So 12 x 365 = 4,380 light days divided by 3 = 1,460 c. That's pretty close to the lower end number for the later episode "Horizon". However there may be factors involved that are not stated that might result in the ship straining itself in "Cease Fire" where it does not seem to in "Horizon". Still, remarkably close and consistent results.
-Mike

[2046]

"Covenant"[DSN7] suggests, based on the Starfleet estimates of Dominion transporter range of three light-years, that Empok Nor (to which Kira was beamed) is within three light-years of DS9.

O'BRIEN: Sir, I'm picking up traces of tachyon energy.
ODO: A transporter beam?
O'BRIEN: With a Dominion signature.
ODO: Any chance of tracing it?
O'BRIEN: Afraid not. The signal's already dissipated.
SISKO: Their transporters operate over longer distances than ours. What's their maximum range?
WORF: If the homing transponder was in place, up to three light years.
O'BRIEN: There was a homing transponder, all right. It was wrapped in this.
ODO: Three light years. For all we know, she could be deep inside Dominion space by now.

DUKAT: I've sent a message to Deep Space Nine. They should be able to get someone here for you within a day or so.

In "Empok Nor"[DSN5], the runabout travel to the other station is shown and is suggested to last at least a few hours based on the road-trip game-playing and whatnot. Dukat's estimate of a day is not outside the realm of possibility.

For what it's worth, though, I think the estimate of three light-years is actually quite low . . . that would make Trivas, suggested to be a different sector than Bajor, actually a neighboring system, and cause this conversation to make no sense:

O'BRIEN: We could send a salvage team to the abandoned Cardassian station in the Trivas System.
SISKO: Empok Nor?
O'BRIEN: It's the same design as this station. The Cardassians pulled out about a year ago, but there's a good chance that the plasma manifold system is still operational.
SISKO: What about Dominion activity in the area?
O'BRIEN: There hasn't been any for several months. Strategically, they seem to have lost interest in that sector.

"That sector" would basically include Bajor or at least border the Bajor sector (sectors usually being thought to be around 20 light-years wide per other examples), and as of the latter half of DSN5 the Dominion and Cardassians most assuredly were still interested in the Bajoran neighborhood.

In any case, though, if we roll with "Covenant" on its own and use Worf's estimate for the transporter range, that's up to 3ly/day for an unspecified Federation vessel (presumably a runabout), which is up to about 1100c.

[359]

TNG: "The Price"

LaForge: "...it, Arridor, we're seventy thousand light years away from our ships. Come on, now. Follow us in. We'll lead you."
...
Picard: "Advise him to set his coordinates for the Delta Quadrant. He may run into them in eighty years or so."

We are given a rough distance and time for a speed of 875c. Although we don't know what the warp factor would be, especially for a Ferengi vessel. However even a Galaxy-class starship cannot maintain high warp for that long, or any where close to it.

Warp: Unknown, maximum unlikely; Time: 80 years; Distance: 70,000ly

[2046]

Just an off-the-cuff thought, but if I had my druthers I'd love to do something akin to the following:

1. Create, as a spreadsheet or similar, a list of all the events that could be readily added to. I'd want it to have the warp factor, distance, time, et cetera, and also the relevant quotes at the end.

It would also be best to have each field twice, with a min and a max, on occasions where there is a range. And personally, I'd like a "probably an outlier" field.

I would likely be interested in also having a way of marking the different sorts of events, e.g. head-calculations by characters versus stated velocities versus calculations requiring points from numerous episodes, et cetera.

2. Craft some system of grading confidence values . . . e.g. when Picard orders warp nine we are 100 percent confident of the warp nine value. When he says maximum warp, we are 100 percent confident it is between 9.6 and 9.8, or something. When they are going to an adjacent system, we can have our educated 5 light-year guess but list it as 75% confidence or somesuch. A character's quick head calculation might be only 80% confidence (or dependent on who calculates) all around, but the computer or shown fact all handing us everything on a platter might be 100% in every category.

Confidence values would be associated with each field, even min/max for occasions where, for instance, we know it was above 9.2 but not exactly where after that.

3. The purpose of all this, besides pure awesomeness, is that we could then make some really super-badass charts.

What I'd want to see is color-coded points and ranges with colors to indicate things like overall confidence, or maybe origin (e.g. head-calcs) with different gradations of color for confidence, et cetera.

I would want a selection of automatic best-fit lines allowing for different interpretative efforts, such as a "Raw, show everything" best-fit that would be utterly insane looking, and then a "show only highest confidence" ones, and maybe a "no outliers" one.

I'd love maybe even a way of de-selecting particular examples altogether if they screw everything up (e.g. Star Trek V). Ideally, I'd also want a mouse-over capability that would show or link to the example rather than just a naked datapoint on a chart.

We would still need either multiple charts or some method to zoom in and out, since of course for velocities we need room for way too many orders of magnitude.

******

I imagine most or all of this is plausible via spreadsheet program, though I've never attempted a graphing maneuver of such exuberance. I suspect, though, that the best way to try to accomplish this is to try to rock the HTML5. I'm half-tempted to post a bounty to get this sort of thing done, but I should really look into it myself for the educational value. At least for a few minutes. ;-)

The beauty is, as soon as the basic chart is made, examples can be added at one's leisure without much fuss.

Thoughts?

[359]

It sounds like a good idea, and would allow a better analysis of the various showings. To me this leans toward programming rather than spreadsheet due to several of the suggested features. All in all it sounds fairly doable, after one has figured out how it would be laid out and organized. Really the most difficult parts would seem to be the best fit overlays and mouse-over info.

Another, perhaps useful, feature would be to be able to organize by era (ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY) so that one can see where certain values tend to be favored.

[359]

VOY: "Inside Man":

Admiral Paris: "The Ferengi wouldn't have stolen the hologram if they didn't think it was valuable. They're probably waiting to rendezvous with a buyer. Are there any Starfleet ships in that area?"
Harkins: "The Carolina's point seven light years away. At maximum warp it could reach them in two hours."

The Carolina can travel 0.7 light-years in two hours for a speed of 3,067c. The ship was at maximum warp, but we don't know what class of ship it is, and from there its max warp. However a large chunk of the fleet appears to be similar to the Excelsior class, which we don't know the maximum warp for except it is slower than or equal to the Defiant's max warp of 9.5 (DS9: "Paridise Lost", for relative speed; DS9: "The Sound of Her Voice", for Defiant maximum)

Warp: Maximum, probably 9.2-ish; Time: 2 hours; Distance: 0.7ly

[Mike DiCenso]

Funny thing is that there was a U.S.S. Carolina mentioned in TOS' "Friday's Child". That ship was identified in backstage and non-canon works as a Daedalus-class starship.

It is assumed it is a different ship, but it is never stated one way or the other if the ship in the VOY episode is the same one or not.
-Mike