Starfleet Jedi

The Malevelence was destroyed by crashing it into a moon/planet while entering or having just entered hyperspace. The effects of the crash cause a massive fireball on the planet/moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5F3HuFmBws
(The only picture/video I could find)

Now if you look here there are pictures of the Death Star firing on Alderaan.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSWsuperl-1.html

To me, the fireballs seem very similar to what we see in both cases implying that there is some sort of hyperspace chain reaction destroying Alderaan.

So, the superlaser would seemingly destroy Alderaan by sending chunks of it into hyperspace in such a way that the chunks would hit the rest of the planet. This theory would seemingly account for all the oddities we see when Alderaan is destroyed.

Does this make sense to anyone other then myself?

It makes sense to me too... :)

Lucky wrote:The Malevelence was destroyed by crashing it into a moon/planet while entering or having just entered hyperspace. The effects of the crash cause a massive fireball on the planet/moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5F3HuFmBws
(The only picture/video I could find)

Now if you look here there are pictures of the Death Star firing on Alderaan.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSWsuperl-1.html

To me, the fireballs seem very similar to what we see in both cases implying that there is some sort of hyperspace chain reaction destroying Alderaan.

So, the superlaser would seemingly destroy Alderaan by sending chunks of it into hyperspace in such a way that the chunks would hit the rest of the planet. This theory would seemingly account for all the oddities we see when Alderaan is destroyed.

Does this make sense to anyone other then myself?

It's good.
You need not limit yourself to one effect.
For example, here's the list of effects we could consider to happen when a hyperspace-imbued superlaser is used on a planetary body.

1. The normal energy of the superlaser itself. Considering the size of the core, we can indeed look at enough firepower to roast a continent and vaporize a sea or more. Said energy is clearly produced by the core's most conventional technology. This is basically the Direct Energy Transfer blast.
2. Shunting matter into hyperspace.
   I believe that there's a minimal amount of hyperspace effect to be put into an object, based on its mass, to start having extra phenomena occur on it beyond those produced by the raw DET.
   This turns out to be a necessity due to the way Despayre was destroyed: the same input of energy, thrice a third of maximum power each time, produced effects which clearly were much more powerful after each shot. Since the variable didn't came from the power of each shot (they always were the same), it could only come from the planet.
   So much that firepower went from enough to burn continents and make volcanoes spew lava to planet being mass scattered. This is the trademark of a logarithmic scale.
   The lack of any ring was also a hint that the effect wasn't as violent as it was with Alderaan. The difference between Despayre and Alderaan was that with the later, the three thirds were all delivered at once. So in a way, the power was greater, and with greater comes a greater ability to overcome inertia. There's inertia in a great many things, and there was the sign, imho, that there was inertia in the very effects of hyperspace.
   So, with that in mind, we have several hyperspace related effects to account for:
   
   
   1. The sudden removal of matter, which will produce a massive change in gravity and cause friction internal to the system by sheer virtue of whatever's left of the world collapsing on itself (RSA had gone frame by frame through this and noticed that the upper pole of Alderaan was seen collapsing juts after the beam touched the planet, before the secondary and greater explosion).
   2. The acceleration of matter shunted into hyperspace, not having time to leave normal space safely, hitting into the rest of the planetary matter. That's basically some gigantic kinetic impact.
   3. The fact that objects sent into hyperspace need an hyperdrive to stay there. I think some piece of the EU (possibly some obscure RPG supplement, I can't go through all I wrote right now) said that ships without an hyperdrive to generate a kind of hyperspace bubble would be blasted to pieces (thinking of it, I think I already talked about that before on this board... there might be some info to refresh somewhere there).
      So, anyway, the matter sent into hyerpsace, but with a hyperdrive strapped to it, would be destroyed, perhaps because of the forces of stress or else. So that alone would already produce another explosion, perhaps during the transition from realspace to hyperspace, or perhaps in hyperspace, immediately bringing the matter back into the rest of the planet which had not been shunted into hyperspace.
   4. Then there's the ring, said to be some hyperspace reflux of some kind. It could be linked to the effect I mention above, or it could be something perhaps related to a compression in hyperspace, which manifests in realspace as a ring. This ring obviously carries a high amount of energy and, depending on its properties, would still at the very least be enough to bisect a crust, perhaps more (what if seismic mines were a distant and poor equivalent to that effect?)...

Another odd thing, for those who take CWS visuals that closely: the moon from the bridge isn't seen growing, it's even seen dwarfing, like if a fourth dimension was playing games on sight. Since the two staff guys say it's related to hyperspace, it's possible the Malevolence already was in a sort of transition zone.
It is very interesting because it shows that what we can observe from the point of view of a crew moving into hyperspace is very different from what we see well outside of said ship -- when I say well outside, it means the camera isn't sitting next to the ship(s) which enter hyperspace.
In this case, the moon is seen growing than what it really is. It's even seen slightly growing.
This visual distortion related to a transition to hyperspace reminds me of the odd size of the Death Star II as the rebel fleet enter the Endor system.
Coincidence?

My theory when come Death star super laser is NDF Theory. I think you guys heard of this theory star war fans us it compensatory theories about Star Trek weapons.

If the Death star true had the able blow planet without the NDF theory why second Death star only able destroy one rebel starship at time rather taking half fleet single shot.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:It's good.
You need not limit yourself to one effect.
For example, here's the list of effects we could consider to happen when a hyperspace-imbued superlaser is used on a planetary body.

The various non-DET conforming effects is what I was referring to by oddities.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
1. The normal energy of the superlaser itself. Considering the size of the core, we can indeed look at enough firepower to roast a continent and vaporize a sea or more. Said energy is clearly produced by the core's most conventional technology. This is basically the Direct Energy Transfer blast.

That would assume the Superlaser has a DET component though.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1.
2. Shunting matter into hyperspace.
I believe that there's a minimal amount of hyperspace effect to be put into an object, based on its mass, to start having extra phenomena occur on it beyond those produced by the raw DET.
This turns out to be a necessity due to the way Despayre was destroyed: the same input of energy, thrice a third of maximum power each time, produced effects which clearly were much more powerful after each shot. Since the variable didn't came from the power of each shot (they always were the same), it could only come from the planet.
So much that firepower went from enough to burn continents and make volcanoes spew lava to planet being mass scattered. This is the trademark of a logarithmic scale.
The lack of any ring was also a hint that the effect wasn't as violent as it was with Alderaan. The difference between Despayre and Alderaan was that with the later, the three thirds were all delivered at once. So in a way, the power was greater, and with greater comes a greater ability to overcome inertia. There's inertia in a great many things, and there was the sign, imho, that there was inertia in the very effects of hyperspace.
So, with that in mind, we have several hyperspace related effects to account for:

Wasn't the entire point of shooting Alderaan to test the Superlaser for the first time?

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
a. The sudden removal of matter, which will produce a massive change in gravity and cause friction internal to the system by sheer virtue of whatever's left of the world collapsing on itself (RSA had gone frame by frame through this and noticed that the upper pole of Alderaan was seen collapsing juts after the beam touched the planet, before the secondary and greater explosion).

There wouldn't be anything actually removed from Alderaan. What would be happening would be that large peaces of Alderaan would be trying to enter hyperspace, and crashing into the rest of the planet while space/time is being distorted in drastic ways. Parts of Alderaan would be converted into energy, but none of it wouldn't simply disappear or be transported elsewhere by my theory.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: a.
b. The acceleration of matter shunted into hyperspace, not having time to leave normal space safely, hitting into the rest of the planetary matter. That's basically some gigantic kinetic impact.

Space/time would be twisted in a rather violent fashion, and. Hyperspace seems to have different laws of physics as well. there would be a lot more going on then simple kinetic impacts.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: a.
b. The fact that objects sent into hyperspace need an hyperdrive to stay there. I think some piece of the EU (possibly some obscure RPG supplement, I can't go through all I wrote right now) said that ships without an hyperdrive to generate a kind of hyperspace bubble would be blasted to pieces (thinking of it, I think I already talked about that before on this board... there might be some info to refresh somewhere there).

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html wrote: RIC OLIE : Powers back! That little droid did it. He bypassed the main power drive. Deflector shield up, at maximum.


The lone BLUE DROID finishes his repairs and goes back into the ship. The Naboo spacecraft races away from the Federation battleship.


RIC OLIE : There's not enough power to get us to Coruscant...the hyperdrive
is leaking.

QUI-GON : We'll have to land somewhere to refuel and repair the ship.


QUI-GON studies a star chart on a monitor.


OBI-WAN : Here, Master. Tatooine... It's small, out of the way, poor... The
Trade Federation has no presence there.

CAPT. PANAKA : How can you be sure?

QUI-GON : It's controlled by the Hutts...

CAPT. PANAKA : The Hutts??

OBI-WAN : It's risky...but there's no alternative.

CAPT. PANAKA : You can't take Her Royal Highness there! The Hutts are
gangsters... If they discovered her...

QUI-GON : ...It would be no different than if we landed on a system
controlled by the Federation...except the Hutts aren't looking for her,
which gives us an advantage.

Is this what you are talking about? It looks like the Hyperdrive needs X amount of energy for the ship to remain in hyperspace for Y amount of time.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: So, anyway, the matter sent into hyerpsace, but with a hyperdrive strapped to it, would be destroyed, perhaps because of the forces of stress or else. So that alone would already produce another explosion, perhaps during the transition from realspace to hyperspace, or perhaps in hyperspace, immediately bringing the matter back into the rest of the planet which had not been shunted into hyperspace.

What ever is happened to Alderaan appears visually similar to what happened to the moon/planet the Malevolence hypered into with a little bit of Seismic charge thrown in for the planar rings.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: a.
b. Then there's the ring, said to be some hyperspace reflux of some kind. It could be linked to the effect I mention above, or it could be something perhaps related to a compression in hyperspace, which manifests in realspace as a ring. This ring obviously carries a high amount of energy and, depending on its properties, would still at the very least be enough to bisect a crust, perhaps more (what if seismic mines were a distant and poor equivalent to that effect?)...

The planar ring seems reminiscent of a Seismic charge used by the Fetts.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Another odd thing, for those who take CWS visuals that closely: the moon from the bridge isn't seen growing, it's even seen dwarfing, like if a fourth dimension was playing games on sight. Since the two staff guys say it's related to hyperspace, it's possible the Malevolence already was in a sort of transition zone.
It is very interesting because it shows that what we can observe from the point of view of a crew moving into hyperspace is very different from what we see well outside of said ship -- when I say well outside, it means the camera isn't sitting next to the ship(s) which enter hyperspace.
In this case, the moon is seen growing than what it really is. It's even seen slightly growing.
This visual distortion related to a transition to hyperspace reminds me of the odd size of the Death Star II as the rebel fleet enter the Endor system.
Coincidence?

There is also the out of control trip through hyperspace in "Jedi Crash" where everything seems to be the wrong size.

Then there are all the times we see ships distort when entering and exiting hyperspace.

I meant:

So, anyway, the matter sent into hyerpsace, but without a hyperdrive strapped to it, would be destroyed, perhaps because of the forces of stress or else. So that alone would already produce another explosion, perhaps during the transition from realspace to hyperspace, or perhaps in hyperspace, immediately bringing the matter back into the rest of the planet which had not been shunted into hyperspace.

Lucky wrote:

Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1. The normal energy of the superlaser itself. Considering the size of the core, we can indeed look at enough firepower to roast a continent and vaporize a sea or more. Said energy is clearly produced by the core's most conventional technology. This is basically the Direct Energy Transfer blast.

That would assume the Superlaser has a DET component though.

It's a safe premise. Anytime there's room for DET as we know it, which should favour it.
FOr example, the first blast on Alderaan is sufficiently normal to look like DET. The head of the superlaser superheats the ground at point of impact, and a column of air. It illuminates the atmosphere and clouds. Difraction completes the job of propagating the light due to the explosion. Further segments of the superlaser dump more and more energy into the planet and the face of the planet hit by the SL blows up in a normal fashion.
You may add there RSA's white band if you want to, but I believe there's quite some room for that DET. It happens to be a figure of firepower that actually fits with fusion capabilities.
I'd say that's about how far the DET can go. Beyond that, anything else is some extra BBQ sauce, courtesy of HYPERSPACE!

Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1.
2. Shunting matter into hyperspace.?I believe that there's a minimal amount of hyperspace effect to be put into an object, based on its mass, to start having extra phenomena occur on it beyond those produced by the raw DET.?This turns out to be a necessity due to the way Despayre was destroyed: the same input of energy, thrice a third of maximum power each time, produced effects which clearly were much more powerful after each shot. Since the variable didn't came from the power of each shot (they always were the same), it could only come from the planet.?So much that firepower went from enough to burn continents and make volcanoes spew lava to planet being mass scattered. This is the trademark of a logarithmic scale.?The lack of any ring was also a hint that the effect wasn't as violent as it was with Alderaan. The difference between Despayre and Alderaan was that with the later, the three thirds were all delivered at once. So in a way, the power was greater, and with greater comes a greater ability to overcome inertia. There's inertia in a great many things, and there was the sign, imho, that there was inertia in the very effects of hyperspace.?So, with that in mind, we have several hyperspace related effects to account for:

Wasn't the entire point of shooting Alderaan to test the Superlaser for the first time?

Originally, such was the case, and the movie clearly alludes to this interpretation, but the demise of Despayre is a thing the EU established long before. They rationalized both by having the Alderaan Test to be the first shot at full power already. Despayre was a succession of three shots, with some roughly identical recharge time between each shot, and the power core wasn't working at full even during the shots themselves.
So Alderaan is really the Death Star working at full potential.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
a. The sudden removal of matter, which will produce a massive change in gravity and cause friction internal to the system by sheer virtue of whatever's left of the world collapsing on itself (RSA had gone frame by frame through this and noticed that the upper pole of Alderaan was seen collapsing juts after the beam touched the planet, before the secondary and greater explosion).

There wouldn't be anything actually removed from Alderaan. What would be happening would be that large peaces of Alderaan would be trying to enter hyperspace, and crashing into the rest of the planet while space/time is being distorted in drastic ways. Parts of Alderaan would be converted into energy, but none of it wouldn't simply disappear or be transported elsewhere by my theory.

The "Death Star" book clearly establishes that a large part of the planet is removed and thrown into hyperspace. That alone, outside of any other effect, would produce a massive collapse, disrupt the planet and cause massivec amounts of friction. Technically, it would be like taking a huge bite at the planet.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: a.
b. The acceleration of matter shunted into hyperspace, not having time to leave normal space safely, hitting into the rest of the planetary matter. That's basically some gigantic kinetic impact.

Space/time would be twisted in a rather violent fashion, and. Hyperspace seems to have different laws of physics as well. there would be a lot more going on then simple kinetic impacts.

Yes, which I have listed as well. But there seems to be, at least, a modicum of physical "normal" effets going on. As per the episode; even if time is somehow twisted, in its "local referential", the impact will be like of a normal impact. It certainly didn't look any different than what we could expect from such a huge ship hitting a moon.

If you want a case of a hyperdrive core pushed to max, there a novel wherein Ackbar sacrificed a new Mon Cal ship I think, and had it circling a moon to surprise an ISD sent by Ysanne Isard. The explosion produced some kind of nova. However, the hyperdrive was precisely set as to explode, not to work by throwing a ship into a planet, so it would explain why the effects were greater than with the Malevolence.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: a.
b. The fact that objects sent into hyperspace need an hyperdrive to stay there. I think some piece of the EU (possibly some obscure RPG supplement, I can't go through all I wrote right now) said that ships without an hyperdrive to generate a kind of hyperspace bubble would be blasted to pieces (thinking of it, I think I already talked about that before on this board... there might be some info to refresh somewhere there).

http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html wrote: RIC OLIE : Powers back! That little droid did it. He bypassed the main power drive. Deflector shield up, at maximum.


The lone BLUE DROID finishes his repairs and goes back into the ship. The Naboo spacecraft races away from the Federation battleship.


RIC OLIE : There's not enough power to get us to Coruscant...the hyperdrive
is leaking.

QUI-GON : We'll have to land somewhere to refuel and repair the ship.


QUI-GON studies a star chart on a monitor.


OBI-WAN : Here, Master. Tatooine... It's small, out of the way, poor... The
Trade Federation has no presence there.

CAPT. PANAKA : How can you be sure?

QUI-GON : It's controlled by the Hutts...

CAPT. PANAKA : The Hutts??

OBI-WAN : It's risky...but there's no alternative.

CAPT. PANAKA : You can't take Her Royal Highness there! The Hutts are
gangsters... If they discovered her...

QUI-GON : ...It would be no different than if we landed on a system
controlled by the Federation...except the Hutts aren't looking for her,
which gives us an advantage.

Is this what you are talking about? It looks like the Hyperdrive needs X amount of energy for the ship to remain in hyperspace for Y amount of time.

No, it's something different. It's an obscure piece of fluff I'm sure I read some day but I wish I had bookmarked.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: It's a safe premise. Anytime there's room for DET as we know it, which should favour it.
FOr example, the first blast on Alderaan is sufficiently normal to look like DET. The head of the superlaser superheats the ground at point of impact, and a column of air. It illuminates the atmosphere and clouds. Difraction completes the job of propagating the light due to the explosion. Further segments of the superlaser dump more and more energy into the planet and the face of the planet hit by the SL blows up in a normal fashion.

There is room for DET effects, but no evidence there are DET effects. All the superlaser strikes we see only seem to be hidden by the firery fog consistent with an object entering hyperspace crashing into something. Even if there is a DET aspeck there is no way to see it.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: You may add there RSA's white band if you want to, but I believe there's quite some room for that DET. It happens to be a figure of firepower that actually fits with fusion capabilities.
I'd say that's about how far the DET can go. Beyond that, anything else is some extra BBQ sauce, courtesy of HYPERSPACE!

I'm not really in the mood to list every single oddity., and the planar rings alone are enough to prove there is far more then a DET reaction going on.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Originally, such was the case, and the movie clearly alludes to this interpretation, but the demise of Despayre is a thing the EU established long before. They rationalized both by having the Alderaan Test to be the first shot at full power already. Despayre was a succession of three shots, with some roughly identical recharge time between each shot, and the power core wasn't working at full even during the shots themselves.
So Alderaan is really the Death Star working at full potential.

I don't really care what the EU says if I have better sources from G and T levels of Star Wars canon. Episode 3 Revenge of the Sith caused anything involving the Death Star Prototype to become N level canon remember, and then there is the whole Mandalorian rewrite. I'm not going to use a source that forces me to do even mild mental gymnastics for it to fit as anything other then a tiny bit of icing on an already decorated cake if I don't have to.

I don't recall any quotes from the book Death Star that necessitate DET anyway.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: The "Death Star" book clearly establishes that a large part of the planet is removed and thrown into hyperspace. That alone, outside of any other effect, would produce a massive collapse, disrupt the planet and cause massivec amounts of friction. Technically, it would be like taking a huge bite at the planet.

Death Star is C level Star Wars canon, and that means it takes a back seat to G and T canon. The novel doesn't say anything that isn't there in G and T level;s of Star Wars canon anyway.

It wouldn't be taking a "bite" out of the planet because the parts of the planet would not have time to enter hyperspace proper, and crash into the rest of the planet. Things don't instantly enter hyperspace, and they still interact with things in "normal" space Remember Han Solo was worried about heading hitting things while in hyperspace after all..

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Yes, which I have listed as well. But there seems to be, at least, a modicum of physical "normal" effets going on. As per the episode; even if time is somehow twisted, in its "local referential", the impact will be like of a normal impact. It certainly didn't look any different than what we could expect from such a huge ship hitting a moon.

I don't recall seeing any normal effects when the Malevolence crashes? One major problem with claiming DET effects is that there is no way to see them do to the odd firery/glowing cloud things.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: If you want a case of a hyperdrive core pushed to max, there a novel wherein Ackbar sacrificed a new Mon Cal ship I think, and had it circling a moon to surprise an ISD sent by Ysanne Isard. The explosion produced some kind of nova. However, the hyperdrive was precisely set as to explode, not to work by throwing a ship into a planet, so it would explain why the effects were greater than with the Malevolence.

G>T>C

YOu wouldn't happen to have the quote would you?

Mr. Oragahn wrote: No, it's something different. It's an obscure piece of fluff I'm sure I read some day but I wish I had bookmarked.

Something about a ship breaking up in hyperspace, and then being spread over light years or something like that?

Lucky wrote:There is room for DET effects, but no evidence there are DET effects. All the superlaser strikes we see only seem to be hidden by the firery fog consistent with an object entering hyperspace crashing into something. Even if there is a DET aspeck there is no way to see it.

There's ample room for it. As long as the superlaser is hitting the planet and as long as it produces a flash, soon followed by a whitening of the atmosphere around the point of impact and then an obvious massive amount of ejecta, there's no reason to go for the simplest explanation of all, as per Occam's Razor, instead of the complicated ones.

Simply put, the first explosion adheres to the DET requirements.
Where DET isn't enough is when the first explosion stops, and is later on followed by a second one, much more powerful, that "long" after the beam has finished hitting the planet.
+ the rings, and eventually all the fancy stuff we find in the EU.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: You may add there RSA's white band if you want to, but I believe there's quite some room for that DET. It happens to be a figure of firepower that actually fits with fusion capabilities.
I'd say that's about how far the DET can go. Beyond that, anything else is some extra BBQ sauce, courtesy of HYPERSPACE!

I'm not really in the mood to list every single oddity., and the planar rings alone are enough to prove there is far more then a DET reaction going on.

Yes, DET doesn't really explain those rings at all. I mean, DET as coming from the Death Star's power production directly.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Originally, such was the case, and the movie clearly alludes to this interpretation, but the demise of Despayre is a thing the EU established long before. They rationalized both by having the Alderaan Test to be the first shot at full power already. Despayre was a succession of three shots, with some roughly identical recharge time between each shot, and the power core wasn't working at full even during the shots themselves.
So Alderaan is really the Death Star working at full potential.

I don't really care what the EU says if I have better sources from G and T levels of Star Wars canon. Episode 3 Revenge of the Sith caused anything involving the Death Star Prototype to become N level canon remember, and then there is the whole Mandalorian rewrite. I'm not going to use a source that forces me to do even mild mental gymnastics for it to fit as anything other then a tiny bit of icing on an already decorated cake if I don't have to.

The "Death Star" at the end of ROTS isn't even correctly shaped to be anything like the product we saw in ANH.
The EU, I believe, went saying that it was some prototype, although I'm not sure it was finished at all.

I don't recall any quotes from the book Death Star that necessitate DET anyway.

Actually, you should say that there are quotes which don't require going with more complicated stuff than simple DET.
Like the blasting of the rebel cruiser ship and its five hundred X-wings.
Or the effets after the first shot on Despayre, which at least we could attribute to pure DET; the others shots, imho, require that some extra energy gets pumped into the planet while the parameters of the Death Star's core didn't change at all: same power and same recharge time: yet the magnitude clearly excedes the effect of a mere pouring of the same sauce twice.
There's also the line about the firepower of the SL said to be capable of vaporizing a large lake or a small sea.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: The "Death Star" book clearly establishes that a large part of the planet is removed and thrown into hyperspace. That alone, outside of any other effect, would produce a massive collapse, disrupt the planet and cause massivec amounts of friction. Technically, it would be like taking a huge bite at the planet.

Death Star is C level Star Wars canon, and that means it takes a back seat to G and T canon. The novel doesn't say anything that isn't there in G and T level;s of Star Wars canon anyway.

It wouldn't be taking a "bite" out of the planet because the parts of the planet would not have time to enter hyperspace proper, and crash into the rest of the planet. Things don't instantly enter hyperspace, and they still interact with things in "normal" space Remember Han Solo was worried about heading hitting things while in hyperspace after all..

You don't understand. The bite is precisely matter from the target being sent into hyperspace.
I think you're trying too hard to push the idea that hyperspace explains it all when it doesn't have to explain all, precisely. It can easily suffice to explain SOME effects, and as my first post, I believe it already covers a lot of potential effects.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Yes, which I have listed as well. But there seems to be, at least, a modicum of physical "normal" effets going on. As per the episode; even if time is somehow twisted, in its "local referential", the impact will be like of a normal impact. It certainly didn't look any different than what we could expect from such a huge ship hitting a moon.

I don't recall seeing any normal effects when the Malevolence crashes? One major problem with claiming DET effects is that there is no way to see them do to the odd firery/glowing cloud things.

The fact that there's a big fireball as the ship crashes in it at a high speed, covering several kilometers per second?

Mr. Oragahn wrote: If you want a case of a hyperdrive core pushed to max, there a novel wherein Ackbar sacrificed a new Mon Cal ship I think, and had it circling a moon to surprise an ISD sent by Ysanne Isard. The explosion produced some kind of nova. However, the hyperdrive was precisely set as to explode, not to work by throwing a ship into a planet, so it would explain why the effects were greater than with the Malevolence.

G>T>C

Perhaps, but sometimes you talk about the EU, and then it doesn't seem to please you, suddenly it becomes irrelevant. I never disputed the canonical hierarchy anyway.

YOu wouldn't happen to have the quote would you?

Not there but I think it's one of the books written by KJA. I tried to find a reference to the event on wookieepedia but there's none. I'll try to find it later.
It shouldn't be too hard, for a book around the X-wing series era.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: No, it's something different. It's an obscure piece of fluff I'm sure I read some day but I wish I had bookmarked.

Something about a ship breaking up in hyperspace, and then being spread over light years or something like that?

I'd rather say some fluff in a RPG supplement of the WEG times.
I believe it said something along the lines of the hyperdrive creating a shield or a bubble which musn't be ruptured.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: There's ample room for it. As long as the superlaser is hitting the planet and as long as it produces a flash, soon followed by a whitening of the atmosphere around the point of impact and then an obvious massive amount of ejecta, there's no reason to go for the simplest explanation of all, as per Occam's Razor, instead of the complicated ones.

Simply put, the first explosion adheres to the DET requirements.
Where DET isn't enough is when the first explosion stops, and is later on followed by a second one, much more powerful, that "long" after the beam has finished hitting the planet.
+ the rings, and eventually all the fancy stuff we find in the EU.

Where is this DET effect seen in the movies? I don't recall a cloud being disturbed in the slightest.

Why would the Superlaser need to be the cause of DET effects (which I can't seem to find)? It is causing a chain reaction that causes matter to enter hyperspace and accelerate into matter not in hyperspace.

The whitening of the atmosphere is the effects of matter entering hyperspace, and then slamming into matter still in normal space. It always seems to produce a whitish fiery cloud.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Yes, DET doesn't really explain those rings at all. I mean, DET as coming from the Death Star's power production directly.

DET doesn't really explain anything as far as I can tell.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: The "Death Star" at the end of ROTS isn't even correctly shaped to be anything like the product we saw in ANH.
The EU, I believe, went saying that it was some prototype, although I'm not sure it was finished at all.

The pictures of what are suppose to be the PDS.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star_prototype
What is seen in the movies.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A8fsUBfLWEI/T ... h_Star.jpg
What we see in ROTS can not be the PDS, but it can be the DS1 as it already has too much bulk to be the PDS.

Oddly enough Wookieepedia says the thing seen at the end of ROFTS was the DS1, and that we have to basically ignore everything about the PDS's back story to an absurd degree. It would also bring up the quest as to why build the DS2 rather then complete the PDS which was supposedly under construction at the same time as the DS1. A little steal, and you can easily fix the flaw.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Actually, you should say that there are quotes which don't require going with more complicated stuff than simple DET.
Like the blasting of the rebel cruiser ship and its five hundred X-wings.
Or the effets after the first shot on Despayre, which at least we could attribute to pure DET; the others shots, imho, require that some extra energy gets pumped into the planet while the parameters of the Death Star's core didn't change at all: same power and same recharge time: yet the magnitude clearly excedes the effect of a mere pouring of the same sauce twice.
There's also the line about the firepower of the SL said to be capable of vaporizing a large lake or a small sea.

We see what happens when the Superlasers are used on thing it should take out with DET like ships, but what we see is the same strange fog even in Space.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: You don't understand. The bite is precisely matter from the target being sent into hyperspace.
I think you're trying too hard to push the idea that hyperspace explains it all when it doesn't have to explain all, precisely. It can easily suffice to explain SOME effects, and as my first post, I believe it already covers a lot of potential effects.

And that matter has nowhere to go. It will travel centimeters at most before hitting the rest of the planet in normal space. Nothing just disappears, or even leaves orbit. Heck, it explains what Luke meant by matter to energy conversion in the novelization.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: The fact that there's a big fireball as the ship crashes in it at a high speed, covering several kilometers per second?

I'm not seeing a normal explosion when the Malevolence crashes. It's a strange whitish hazy thing.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Perhaps, but sometimes you talk about the EU, and then it doesn't seem to please you, suddenly it becomes irrelevant. I never disputed the canonical hierarchy anyway.

I'm confused by what you mean? Could you provide a few examples?

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Not there but I think it's one of the books written by KJA. I tried to find a reference to the event on wookieepedia but there's none. I'll try to find it later.
It shouldn't be too hard, for a book around the X-wing series era.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: I'd rather say some fluff in a RPG supplement of the WEG times.
I believe it said something along the lines of the hyperdrive creating a shield or a bubble which musn't be ruptured.

I seem to recall some story being mentioned about some form of shielding failing, and that resulted in a guy basically ending up in the future or growing old or something like that?