Should Picard Have Been Retired After BoBW?

Cpl Kendall · Post by **Cpl Kendall** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:03 pm

Simply put should Picard have been retired after Best of Both Worlds? In ST:FC we see he still has lingering effects from his assimilation, possibly some brain damage. And he is clearly not in his right frame of mind when dealing with the Borg IE: refusing to blow up the ship when it becomes clear that they have the upper hand.

So should he have been forced to retire? Possibly becoming an expert on the Borg for Starfleet and reappearing as a guest star occasionaly and allowing Riker to continue as Captain. Lets leave Rikers obvious failings as an officer aside for the moment.

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:07 pm

Not retired, necessarily, but promoted to a flag rank officer, and put in charge of a special anti-Borg fleet. When the borg invade the Federation, as seen in ST:FC, Picard can lead the special taskforce into battle, have the cube destroyed in far less time, and with far fewer casulties to Starfleet as a whole since he has the apparent ability to ascertain all the special weak spots.
-Mike

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:13 pm

Simply put: no!
At that time, Riker didn't seem really prepared for an ship of his own, and Picard proved (with the exception of the Borg incident in ST:FC) that he still the willpower ("There... are... FOUR... lights!") and the courage to be a Starfleet Captain.

And he was a great opposite of Kirk, who seemd to be willing to blow up his ship at the drop of a hat... :)

Cpl Kendall · Post by **Cpl Kendall** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:20 pm

Of course retiring/killing/promoting/keeping as Locutus: Patrick Stewart begs the question that Praeothmin alludes too, would Riker have made a good captain? And could the show have continued without Patrick Stewart, who was for all intents and purposes TNG?

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:46 pm

At that time, I would have said "yes", Riker can hold his own, especially if he had Commander Shelby as his second-in-command to back him up and keep him on his toes. Remember that many of the issues that you allude to, Kendall, did not occur to the character until relatively late in the original TNG run, and ST:Generations. I suspect that as the ship's captain, the character of Riker would have been given many more opportunities to shine than he actually did in reality.
-Mike

TheRedFear · Post by **TheRedFear** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:34 am

Picard's behavior in First Contact was exceedingly out of character. He'd already dealt with his violated-by-the-borg issues in the episode where he went back home to his brother and emt his newphew.

In none of the following episodes where they encountered Borg, did he exhibit any of the ridiculous behavior he demonstrasted in First Contact. Just one of many problems with ST:FC sadly.

I DO have some hope for the upcoming movie. If for no other reason than A_list celebs like Matt Damon generally pick quality scripts. And with Trek's movie record to date(which he can't possibly be oblivious to) he must be damned pleased with this script to risk having his name attached to it.

TheRedFear · Post by **TheRedFear** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:37 am

As for Riker, yeah, i'd say he'd have made a great captain. It seems so wrong that he's going over to captain a new Ship in Nemesis. He belongs in the captain's seat of Enterprise, and if Nemesis was indeed to be the last TNG Movie, it should have ended with Picard relenquishing the big chair to Riker, and taking a new assignment as an Admiral or Ambassador. Or even running for Federation President.

Socar · Post by **Socar** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:11 am

Nah, keep Picard in the captain's seat. Besides my personal feelings about the loss of Patrick Stewart or how I feel that how they wrote Picard in First Contact was blatantly out of character, I just think Picard was suited for command of a starship.

Riker.... his performance at the end of Generations was kinda embarrassing, but other than that I still think he would've made a good captain. I mean, Starfleet's been trying to give him his own command since before TNG even started for god's sake. Was he ready to take over at the end of BobW? I think so.

TheRedFear · Post by **TheRedFear** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:24 am

Riker was as out of character in Generations as Picard was in First Contact. And the less said of Insurrection the better.

I really really hope that Matt Damon's willingness to have his name attached to a Trek movie bodes well for the future.

Cpl Kendall · Post by **Cpl Kendall** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:51 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:At that time, I would have said "yes", Riker can hold his own, especially if he had Commander Shelby as his second-in-command to back him up and keep him on his toes. Remember that many of the issues that you allude to, Kendall, did not occur to the character until relatively late in the original TNG run, and ST:Generations. I suspect that as the ship's captain, the character of Riker would have been given many more opportunities to shine than he actually did in reality.
-Mike

So you don't think we'd see absolute crap like in Rascals where he loses the ship to two outdated Klingon ships and a handful of Ferengi?

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:57 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote: So you don't think we'd see absolute crap like in Rascals where he loses the ship to two outdated Klingon ships and a handful of Ferengi?

Can you show where exactly he has made mistakes and why you think that Picard wouldn't have made them too?

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:54 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:

So you don't think we'd see absolute crap like in Rascals where he loses the ship to two outdated Klingon ships and a handful of Ferengi?

Well, in his defense, he is human after all, and we all make mistakes.
And as W.I.L.G.A. stated, Picard might made the same mistake... Or he might not, but even Picard, who is aknowledged to be a very good Captain made mistakes that seemed... "noobish" sometimes... :)

Cpl Kendall · Post by **Cpl Kendall** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:36 pm

Who is like God arbour wrote:
Can you show where exactly he has made mistakes and why you think that Picard wouldn't have made them too?

As XO crew training is his responsibility, the fact that the crew of the "flagship" of Starfleet couldn't less than a dozen boarders doesn't reflect very well on his leadership skills and abilities as XO or as acting Captain at the time of the crisis.

That leaves out the fact that the shields were down when the Klingon ships approached but I can't remember if comms had been established or not.

TheRedFear · Post by **TheRedFear** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:41 pm

quote="Praeothmin"]Cpl Kendall wrote:

So you don't think we'd see absolute crap like in Rascals where he loses the ship to two outdated Klingon ships and a handful of Ferengi?

Well, in his defense, he is human after all, and we all make mistakes.
And as W.I.L.G.A. stated, Picard might made the same mistake... Or he might not, but even Picard, who is aknowledged to be a very good Captain made mistakes that seemed... "noobish" sometimes... :)[/quote]

Oh my god, you should rewatch the first 2 or 3 seasons of TNG

I swear, it was like the Enterprise D was being run by a crew of Children. And not even those smart, daring, precocious children either. No, these were the children you send to bed without any supper in the hopes they'llstarve to death and alleviate you of the burden of caring for them.

They simply were not very bright, and that applies to Riker, Picard, and allllll the rest. I'm just glad I was too young to recognize their idiocy back then, otherwise I never would have stayed with the show long enough for them to finally start being written intelligently in the third or fourth season and beyond.

Cpl Kendall · Post by **Cpl Kendall** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:58 pm

TheRedFear wrote:
Oh my god, you should rewatch the first 2 or 3 seasons of TNG

I swear, it was like the Enterprise D was being run by a crew of Children. And not even those smart, daring, precocious children either. No, these were the children you send to bed without any supper in the hopes they'llstarve to death and alleviate you of the burden of caring for them.

They simply were not very bright, and that applies to Riker, Picard, and allllll the rest. I'm just glad I was too young to recognize their idiocy back then, otherwise I never would have stayed with the show long enough for them to finally start being written intelligently in the third or fourth season and beyond.

Not only that, Picard was a dick.