An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

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2046
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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 2046 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:14 am

Cross-universe pollination? Oy.

As for the head-warping, that only takes care of the skull elongation, but not the other differences such as the new saggittal ridge-work extending down the neck.

Indeed, I haven't even gotten started on the naked Klingon chick. I'll go ahead and add the new shoulder ridges for 1000, Alex.

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Khas » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:39 am

Actually, given the age of the Klingons seen in "Into Darkness", it looks like they were born BEFORE Nero's time-travel shenanigans.

Also, Discovery didn't give us ridges going all the way down a Klingon's back. TNG did.

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Sideswipe » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:01 am

Khas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:39 am
Actually, given the age of the Klingons seen in "Into Darkness", it looks like they were born BEFORE Nero's time-travel shenanigans.

Also, Discovery didn't give us ridges going all the way down a Klingon's back. TNG did.

Image
I'm pretty sure 2046 is referring to the ridges clearly seen in the pic that go down the sides of the head and neck. Nothing like that is seen on Klingons before that. The Klingons looking so different when they supposedly existed before the timeline screw up, as well as the uniforms and the Kelvin design makes me think it's a completely different universe from the Prime.

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:43 am

Khas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:39 am
Actually, given the age of the Klingons seen in "Into Darkness", it looks like they were born BEFORE Nero's time-travel shenanigans.

Also, Discovery didn't give us ridges going all the way down a Klingon's back. TNG did.

Image
And don't forget that this extends to the feet.

Image

The gradual move to make the Klingons more and more alien has been going on for a long time.
-Mike

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 2046 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:09 am

Khas wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:39 am
Actually, given the age of the Klingons seen in "Into Darkness", it looks like they were born BEFORE Nero's time-travel shenanigans.
That's not relevant. It's a different universe anyway, but even if you don't accept that there's the simple fact that time travel, by its very nature, is a shotgun when used against a future time traveler.

That is to say, if you screw with Kirk, you not only screw with him, but with all his temporal screwings.

Also, Discovery didn't give us ridges going all the way down a Klingon's back. TNG did.


1. Sagittal ridges refers to the sagittal crest, the top center part of the head. Some creatures have very pronounced fin-like crests. It is, where applicable, where strong jaw muscles connect on real Earth animals.

2. Based on Chang (whose less-pronounced Klingon ridges suggest a hybrid), Klingon ridges may extend somewhat beyond the hairline, though Klingon hairline start points vary so much it's hard to say for sure. (Several TMP, TUC, and TNG-era Klingons had more Picardian hairlines compared to others.) Chang had no apparent ridgework on the back of the head or the neck.

3. Worf's spinal ridges are not seen to extend above the base of the neck. See TNG's first season where his neck was frequently visible.

4. Kurn's pronounced chest bones are an oddity, either due to him being alcoholic and scrawny or from other damage. Fek'lhr, Klaa, et al. showed no such gappy sternum / bony chest, though most Klingon chests we've seen have been more muscular.

5. Klingons, especially females, never had any neck oddities, fore or aft, port or starboard. They also never had nasty Cardassian-like cleavage. See the Klingon damsel Valkris from ST3, or Vixis from ST5, or even Bu'KaH from ENT "Sleeping Dogs". No other evidence exists for Klingon neck oddities, either (see Chang notes above).

6. There are plenty of other glances at Klingon necks too numerous to count. Unlike STD Klingons, their necks don't have all that funky gnarliness going on. That's just there now so the make-up is easier and cheaper, just like the hairlessness, et cetera.

Image

(Edit: Indeed, I imagine the cheap makeup is why the naked Klingon woman had weird shoulder ridges, also something new and odd . . . they didn't apply the makeup in a Westmore plant-on-bits fashion, which is complex, but instead had her wrapped in body-covering bits. The shoulder ridges are where the sleeves connected to the main bodysuit. Yuck.)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/ee/a5 ... 940f8f.jpg

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:17 am

From the NYCC Discovery trailer...it's official:

Image

The Klingons with hair are back!
-Mike

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 2046 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:02 am

. . . and even the media covering the show is telegraphing their opinion.

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2018/10/ ... -season-2/

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Sothis » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:52 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:17 am
From the NYCC Discovery trailer...it's official:

Image

The Klingons with hair are back!
-Mike
I’m curious as to what they were doing with that glory stick.

Edit: that was supposed to say ‘glowy stick’!

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 2046 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:27 am

They also have a D-7 style ship, which should be amusing because they've already identified one of the nasty ship types a D-7 in the show.

Edit: Actually, the Klingon D-7 / K'T'inga Class battlecruiser has funky proportions, which suggests they're even gonna screw that up even as they move away from the gnarled poop motif seen throughout Season One Klingon ships.

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 359 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:13 pm

Personally other than Discovery and the Klingon ships I've loved their art crew's work. Particularly what I think is the best rendition of a Constitution class, so I'm not concerned with letting the have at the D7. I expect the results to be somewhat different and modernized, but really that's a good thing since the original series was working with such a limited budget and old tech such that next to their successors, those ships never had the attention to detail that later ones received.

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:55 pm

You mean this baby here:

Image

It doesn't have to be exact, just reasonably close enough and most people would be happy with it as an updating of the original Matt Jefferies just as the Discovery Enterprise is a reasonable, faithful updating as the design was given in the 2009 Star Trek movie. And don't forget, like the Klingons themselves, this is just an end product of updating the older designs that's been going on since DS9's "Trials andTribble-ations":

Image

Hopefully there will be an interesting story centered around this new mystery battle cruiser.
-Mike

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by Sothis » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:15 pm

I'm looking forward to this. The Red Angel, Spock, whatever the Klingons are up to, it certainly appears to be adding up to a fascinating set of stories!

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 2046 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:24 am

359 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:13 pm
the original series was working with such a limited budget and old tech such that next to their successors, those ships never had the attention to detail that later ones received.
Well, the TOS ships had attention to detail, given the myriad unnoticed details of the Enterprise model, but (a) Jefferies didn't believe in greeblies on the grounds that no one would put things on the outside unnecessarily if they could put it inside and repair it in shirtsleeves instead, and (b) TV sizes at the time scarcely required an excess of detail anyway.

That said, I don't mind added detail that we can excuse as having been difficult or impossible to see before. That's totally cool, as in Mike's example of Koloth's ship from "Trials and Tribble-ations". It maintained the design perfectly rather than trying to overwrite it with something newer because kewl.

Discovery's issue right now is two-fold, in that they'd rather discard the old designs (e.g. the S1 D-7) but also now try to have them (e.g. Klingon hair and old-school-esque D-7s). They always had a slightly schizoid approach, but now they're just contradicting themselves.

1. Flashbacks from S1 showed hairless Klingon kids.
2. Mirror Voq was hairless.
3. We saw the leaders of all the houses. They were all hairless.

This and other changes smell of a mid-series reboot of a reboot.

The only way the D-7 works given all the other Klingon ships before it is if it is a 2150's antique or another parallel universe thing from our Trek universe. Perhaps the Red Angels are continuity mavens here to help fix the broken timeline.

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 2046 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:29 am

Also, L'Rell's forehead is now different, more in line with classic Klingon looks. Note the softer makeup overall, but specifically the less Botox-y lips, slimmer nose, and especially the new area between the eyes.

http://st-v-sw.net/images/Trek/Alts/STD2-L'Rell1.png

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Re: An explanation for the Klingon appearance in "Discovery"

Post by 359 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:09 am

This is all quite true, I just don't see it as a bad thing as long as the eventually settle. As I said earlier, aside from the Klingon and Discovery art, I think they've done a wonderful job making the show's art look good. I'm just not particularly bothered if they change a few classic things, I guess.

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