2046 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:46 pm
While that's not correct, window-like behavior is equally easy to see in TSFS. Why didn't you claim that's a window? It was a simple question.
What "window-like" behavior are you talking about? Who looks into the ship from outside through it? Why are you making a false equivalency out of this?
The above is a clear backpedal on your part. I'm not dissing the new tack, mind you, but don't pretend you weren't arguing hard for a window (and other counterfactualisms) like you pretend here:
"Not exactly. "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before" versions of the Enterprise had rectangular markings and in one case, a light square where a window-like viewscreen would be. But in addition to that, there is the infamous "Requiem for Methuselah" scene of Kirk peeking into the bridge through a "viewscreen", that if it were a simple monitor, would show a frozen image of whatever orbital view it last saw before Flint zapped the ship and shrank her down to a desktop model. Instead, Kirk can be clearly seen moving around outside and looking inside through it:"
I never there once said anything about all throughout TOS that the viewscreen was a window. That is you badly misconstruing what I said there.
That's bullshit, Mike. You're literally reimagining the thread in your head at this point, revising your past claims and pretending I was ill-behaved.
Nope. You've been going postal over everything just about in this thread, from me pointing out that some markings on the front of the bridge in two different early versions of the ship and one scene in an episode could indicate a window, and I even gave some speculation on how such a thing could be among the staff from disagreements on the nature of the ship's tech to a simple and deliberate contradiction to just a flat out gaff, but you went nuts and refused to let it go.
Had you presented it as wiggle room over an inconsistency you wouldn't have met such resistance. Instead, you claimed Discovery wasn't inconsistent based on your claims of TOS, I rejected your claims, and you quickly cried dishonesty, blindness, et cetera.
Go re-read the thread.
Bull. That was clear that I used a few examples to illustrate that precedent was set back even then for a window.
You just proved the point I made in the quote of me… you've decided how Flint's suspension works, in your mind, and in your mind I am dishonest for not agreeing.
I'm calling you dishonest for not acknowledging what happened in the episode and what other people also observed about that scene. Is the ship and crew suspended? Yes. How do we know? Flint describes it that way and we see the lights frozen in place. The ship is sitting on the desk top, not moving, no impulse engines or thrusters apparently working since it's just motionless. No working nav deflector since people can approach the ship from the front without being bounced away.
So, if it's not frozen, and remember Flint said the crew would be released maybe in a thousand or two thousand years, that means they are suspended protected from time's effects to some in some manner. So what is it, then?
Also, you've ignored definitions of mutiny so that you can claim TOS is not inconsistent with itself.
Can you not see that you're the aggressor and making this personal, Mike?
"It looks different, naturally, but I can bet that STDJWs (of the type who insist it'll all fit perfectly and ignore the "visual reboot") are going to claim that it could totally have been refurbished despite literally costing thousands of ships worth of material."
"Hell, maybe you can join the psychotroll Sothis and sneakily follow me around Twitter talking to everyone I talk to and disagreeing with everything I say without so much as an @ tag out of courtesy."
Oh, wait, I am dishonest *and* crazy for disagreeing with you.
What else would you calls someone completely ignoring very clear cut evidence and without justification?
That's what you're now asking me to do. Ignore evidence. Every other system just happens to be frozen in place and you're seriously wanting me to believe that the only system working just as fine as always is the viewscreen? Really?
That's clearly not what I argued, Mike. That's a dishonest response on your part.
You mean like how you claim what I said about the viewscreen in the first place? See my response above about the ship's systems and how you ignored their state of being, what the implications might be if they were all working exactly as they were on orbit, just now tiny and with a suspended tiny crew no longer able to guide the ship.
Let's dumb it down further.
Imagine a light bulb is a little machine gun that shoots photon bullets. For the light to be shooting, it must be getting a supply of ammo. That means that even if the bulb/gun is stuck in the "firing" position, it isn't that the ammo supply system is similarly stuck, because the cartridges clearly keep coming to supply the gun.
If the ammo supply system is working, and thus is powered, is it shocking to think that maybe something else could be working, too, like a missile launcher? And if the ammo supply system for the gun is electrically powered, is it shocking to conclude that other electronics might be working?
See my response above. You have only selected one thing, the lights maybe being on, then ignored the fantastical elements of the scene in general, that nothing was moving inside that we can see and the little ship as soon as it appeared didn't go flying off the table on impulse power or push people aside with its navigational deflector beam, etc. Just those lights, just that viewscreen are working out of everything else.
So, you think this is something special that the light is visible and the viewscreen is just happening to be the only thing on the ship that works like a viewscreen at that moment? See how ridiculous that is?
The lights being on is in many ways another inconsistency like how Geordi and Ro Laren in "The Last Phase" didn''t fall through the E-D's decks or that they didn't asphyxiate from a lack of sufficiently amounts of phased oxygen to breathe, etc.
(Indeed, you also skip over the part about suspension being zero or not. You've decided that Flint's device brought everything to a dead stop. As we know, this is not true. I gave you a way out by hinting that maybe Flint simply slooooooowed things down. In that case, the viewscreen might still function since I rather doubt it runs at 24fps.)
That actually would have been an interesting take on things, ala some effect similar to the Scalosian water or whatever, but it doesn't follow through since KIrk is moving normally in real time and unlike with the Scalosians, was not given any kind of instructions to show Kirk at normal speed.
Bullshit. It's *disagreement*, not *dishonesty*.
Dammit, man, I realize you busted out the Warsie comparisons first, but surely you must realize that impugning those who disagree as dishonest nutjobs merely *because they disagree* is hardly an SFJ trademark, but instead SDN.
Why is Kirk looking in through it?
But he is and even if by some chance he isn't, it is the only thing there that can be seen moving at normal speed or not completely suspended. So why oh why is the screen acting exactly like a window in that context when it shouldn't?
So? Facts aren't based on consensus, even if you had it. Good grief, go to the DITL board or Flare or most anywhere and see how many people think Discovery is actually Prime, if all it takes is a number of adherents to make reality.
Not an equivalent thing. Discovery being Prime was decided by the people who own and create Trek.
For that matter, close up shop here and go beg forgiveness from SDN.
Nope. But I do hold out hope that you lighten up and maybe we can get back to discussing things normally. The fact that you're still here and posting freely is evidence against us going all SDN.
You're creating a distinction where none exists in the source material. And again, if Starfleet hasn't figured out that it could damage the multiverse a year into its use (not even counting the study time, ship construction, et cetera), I doubt a hostile species is going to avoid using it for awhile.
I'm just doing what we've always done, speculate within the framework of the information provided to us. I can see a lot of legitimate reasons based on what has been established why Starfleet would ban the spore drive and classify the work. I just presented one of many possible scenarios. Remember that in the Mirror universe that the mycelial reactor was spun off the research from Mirror Stamet's work on spore drive. So if nothing else they'd have to damn well be careful that no one else can get this and from there learn how to build another reactor and threaten the multiverse again.
On the other hand, reports are that season 2 will involve Section 31...