KOTOR SW vs. ENT ST

[l33telboi]

Ok, things have been a bit quiet here lately, so i thought i'd blow some life into this board by putting up another vs. scenario.

This time it's KOTOR era Star Wars versus Enterprise era Star Trek.

Here's the bottom-line of it. A number of wormholes suddenly open up here and there in both galaxies tying the two together. The time in the Star Wars galaxy is when KOTOR first starts, in other words, a while after the civil war has broken out. The time in the Enterprise galaxy is the beginning of Season four, after the 'temporal cold war' has ended. The two galaxies suddenly decide to fight with each other, for ploth4x reasons.

Scenario #1: The goodguy races (Humans, Andorians, Tellarites and Vulcans) vs. an alliance between Sith and the Old Republic.

Scenario #2: The badguy races (Xindi, Klingons, Romulans and Sulibahn) vs. an alliance between Sith and the Old Republic.

The goal is the total subjugation of the opposing side via any means necessary.

That is all - proceed.

[Mike DiCenso]

What exactly is this "KOTOR-era" Star Wars? Can you point out some appropriate links that describe it?
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Knights of the Old Republic

Wiki's page on KOTOR

At this point of the story, Malak is already using the Starforge, which is churning out droids and Sith starfighters.

Malak uses Sith Interdictors as the capital ships of his fleet. His own ship is called the Leviathan.

To learn about the firepower of the Sith capital ships, just look at the fate of Taris.

"Meanwhile, Darth Malak, Dark Lord of the Sith, concerned about the search for Bastila taking too long and fearing that she could escape Taris, ordered Admiral Saul Karath to "wipe this pathetic planet from the face of the galaxy". The Sith fleet was regrouped and began a massive artillery bombardment of the planet's surface.

Canderous led Revan to Davik Kang's secret estate, where the crimelord kept his ship, the Ebon Hawk. To get to the ship, Revan and Canderous had to defeat Davik and bounty hunter Calo Nord, (the latter survived but was left for dead). The Ebon Hawk left the hangar just before Davik's estate was destroyed with the rest of the Taris city.

It is unknown what happened to Taris after the Jedi Civil War, and whether it was ever repopulated. The planet did not appear in the Star Wars movies. Darth Malak's bombardment had thoroughly levelled the Upper City area, and as Carth Onasi stated, everything over two stories high was reduced to rubble. It was speculated, though, that some of the Lower City and Undercity inhabitants managed to survive the bombardment. This theory is reinforced by the appearance of Taris in the game Star Wars: Empire at War as one of the planets available for capture.

Observe the level of destruction caused by the turbolasers of the Sith Interdictors.
Now, the planet was covered by large cities, so even if the firepower may not seem that high, the total amount, on the other hand, was still impressive.

Wiki's page also says the following:

Interdictor Cruisers built by both the Republic and the Sith possessed 20 quad laser cannons for short range defense, 4 turbolasers, 2 ion cannons, a tractor beam projector, and 4 gravity well generators. That was an inordinately large amount of firepower for a vessel of that size and classification and of that era. An Old Republic Interdictor Cruiser could outgun the Interdictor-class heavy cruiser built in the Galactic Civil War by Kuat Drive Yards.

The defensive capabilities of an Interdictor Cruiser are unknown. However, in the Battle of Telos IV, two Sith Interdictors held off an Old Republic defense fleet composed of three Old Republic medium cruisers and eight Old Republic light cruisers. This would probably give it deflector shielding and armor plating equivalent to Old Republic norms, but firepower far superior than typical Old Republic warships.

As for the numbers of such Sith Interdictors, a wookipedia page says that the Sith used the Star Forge to replicate these cruisers, resulting in them becoming the most common Sith capital ships.

Now, at this time, Bastilla and her battle meditation wasn't available to Malak. But now, both sides are united. It says it greatly helped Malak's forces preditc the moves of the Republic's fleet.

More on the Starforge and the disabling field cast from an inhabitable planet in this system.

What's actually funny with the Starforge is that apparently, it can reproduce exact copies of any ship it's fed with. At least, Star Wars type of ships, from the Old Republic Era. But this same station was built by an Empire which previously controlled the galaxy. They may have had ships largely superior.

Anyway, things would become extremely interesting for the Sith if Malak was able to get his hands on Trek ships.

[Mike DiCenso]

Thanks for the info, Oragahn.

From the structure of the opposing forces/alliances as set up it would generally favor a win for the KOTAR-era forces, especially given that the Xindi are on the "bad guy" side, and have the only serious weapon that could tip the balance of power in the other direction, and there are no SW powers that are allied with the ST galaxy powers.
-Mike

[l33telboi]

I would've thought that even idividual ENT era ships you pose great problems for KOTOR era ships. I actually had that in mind when i made this thread. ENT fewer numbers but stronger ships while KOTOR has larger numbers and weaker ships.

[Mr. Oragahn]

A bit off-topic, but something tilted.

If you think about it, the sources say that ships built upon the materials found in a sun can outclass an Empire Era Interdictor starship.

Not only would that suggest that the ships from that Starforge only use what that sun could have provided, and are likely to use a form of power generation therefore not that far from what a sun does, but the firepower that only leveled the upper levels of Taris' cities would beat an Interdictor 418, built after the Clone Wars, thousands of years later. :|

On topic: if Trek ships use special materials besides antimatter, the Starforge is not going to be able to reproduce them.

I don't know what numbers the major Trek factions of the ENT era can bring to the table, but considering the few ships attacking Taris, and the few ships defending the Starforge, it would seem that even a thousand Trek ships would be plain enough, and maybe too much, really.

[Mike DiCenso]

I'am not so sure about that. The ST:ENT ships are probably closer to being on par with the KOTAR ships for firepower and shields/armor. The numbers are also very lopsided with United Earth's Starfleet being only a little over a decade old and not possessing very many ships (maybe a few dozen dedicated starships). Hard to estimate how big the fleets are for the Vulcans, Tellarites, and Andorians, but they do seem to be in at least the hundreds of ships strong for each those factions. Based on the images of the Sith damage to various buildings (low kiloton range at best), I would say the firepower is more in-line with the best Vulcan and Andorian vessels, and well above the average for those of United Earth, except the NX class.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

This is not exactly the impression I had after the NX vs Pegasus thread. :p

[Mike DiCenso]

Which is why I indicated the NX class as an exception there given the photonic torpedoes having a maximum yeild in the double-digit megaton range. Without them, the NX class is stuck with low KT-yeild phase cannons.

Anyway, even going with a much higher quality for the Vulcan, Tellarite and Andorian ships, it still doesn't help offset much the vast array of forces against them, in particular the parameter of the Klingons, Xindi, and Suliban (equal to or better than the best Vulcan and Andor can field) being allied to the KOTOR-era SW forces. Still far too lopsided here.
-Mike

[l33telboi]

in particular the parameter of the Klingons, Xindi, and Suliban (equal to or better than the best Vulcan and Andor can field) being allied to the KOTOR-era SW forces. Still far too lopsided here.
-Mike

The badguy races of Trek are not allied with the SW forces.

There are two separate scenarios. In one it's the goodguys versus SW in the other it's the badguys versus SW.

[Trinoya]

As much as it pains me, I'm going to side with KOTOR (not because it's star wars, but because it is KOTOR).

Sadly, we just don't see a large enough ship count or get any idea of a large enough ship count to believe a successful defense could be mounted.

At the end of the day, they'd just ram the enterprise if it did too much damage. Sadly with the other races too caught up in political strife, earth falls faster than a feather on the moon.

[Mike DiCenso]

I still have to stand on the KOTAR, if for no other reason than shear force of numbers. Now the Klingon-Xindi-Romulan-Suliban alliance might be able to force a stalemate with advantages such as the planet killer weapon; various kinds of cloaking technology, and that the Xindi can take shelter in a inhospitiable part of the ST Milky Way galaxy, as well as has access to their unique form of FTL.
-Mike

[sonofccn]

I have to agree with Mike DiCenso and Trinoya. 22nd century trekverse just doesn't have the numbers to do it. Now if it was a massive Earth-Vulcan-Romulan-Andorian-Xindi-Suliban-Terralite alliance then maybe they could stand a chance.

Hard to estimate how big the fleets are for the Vulcans, Tellarites, and Andorians, but they do seem to be in at least the hundreds of ships strong for each those factions.

I would have pegged them more in the high double digits. Which example am I forgetting showing hundres atleast. IIRC during the near hot war with andoria the vulcans only sent like six cruisers and the Andorians only sent like three. In a war against to rival powers I would figure they would have sent more if they had hundreds of ships. Of course I admit I may be remembering the episode wrong so I could be in error.

[Mike DiCenso]

There are at least 7-8 of the D'Kyr type cruisers, and at least as many of the smaller "fighter" escort ships. Bear in mind that the Andorians did not send more ships because they nearly got caught with their proverbial pants down, and the Vulcan fleet was part of a first-strike effort. Later in the Babel arc, we see several more Vulcan ships, most notably of the so-called Sh'Ran type.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Aren't people overestimating the production capacity of the Starforge?
Remember that it has to build starfighters, droids and capital ships at the same time.
Again, looking at the number of Sith ships sent to attack other planets or those used to defend the Starforge, there doesn't seem to be that much of them.
It sures gives an immense advantage in the sense that it's an automatized and sort of replicating shipyard, but if the production rate isn't that high, and if the Trek match it, then both sides could some out even.

Trek will, on the other hand, have problems in terms of FTL travel, safe if we prove that SW hyperdrives are super slow.

Now I have hard times believing that only the NX would possess torpedoes worth of a few tens of megatons, and not the Romulans or Vulcans.
Trek could literally one shot the Sith capital ships, no?