Power output of a lightsaber

[GStone]

George's view of a lightsabre is just pure energy, like a flashlight. If it's pure EM, the only way known in physics to keep in shaft form is a space-time distortion above the area of the handle. The distortion lets matter through, but traps most of the EM energy inside. We know some would escape because we can see it. The vibrating sound could be from the energy's interaction with the atmosphere.

Bolts can still be deflected because of the principles used in solar sails. The pressure exerted by the EM energy pushes a solar sail. Your speed slows down the further away you get from the source pushing. Get enough energy together, you'd have a pseudo-solid object and we know the ground (sometimes) and polished surfaces delfect bolts.

Some heat does escape because we see the burn marks on objects. With a lightsabre just turned on, the only thing it's cutting is air, so the heat output may be not noticable. It escapes probably from an inefficiency of the device outside of the deliberate one, so you can see the blade.

Heat/energy escapes the distortion due to the inefficiency, letting one cut through a metal door by leaving it there. The cumulitive build up of the blade being in one place could account for the door melting/breaking apart.

When it's shut off, we see the blade is still at the same level of opaque-ness it had when it was fully turned on, so the device must capture the energy, as it shuts down the blade. There might be some battery recharging or capacitor storage or something going on.

This would make the energy output big. The technology may not have much applications because of the limited range, where blasters are easier to learn to use and you don't have to get you as close to the target, but they're still clumsy and random, so it's a trade off.

I still like the slight variation of the Albert Forge model with a distorted material spun at near light speeds. Both have evience to back it up. It's just that George's view feels more likely because of how it operates and the feel of the SW'verse, but there might be something in the TV show that makes the distorted material model the more likely one.

Edit: While blade-blade interaction could be explained by the pseudo-solid nature of the heavy concentration, there might be interactions between the distortion fields themselves and the energy emitted because of the inefficiency, where each distortion is working against the other and each distortion is in mid-drawing in of the energy emitted by the blades. This would account for an apparent clinging they seem to do a little.

[Mr. Oragahn]

The Albert Forge model is a good start. Variants, like the gyroscopic EM arc rather model, are appealing, as well as the rigid bottled particles model.
They revolve around some of the best ideas I've read over the years, but may require even more refinement.

The lightsabre is by nature exotic, in the sense that it's powerful to deflect energy, enough to melt matter, and yet does not bleed off heat when you bring your hand close to it.

How to explain the shadow? Obviously, many photons are blocked. Maybe eventually trapped.

It could deal most of its damage via high vibration, or controlled energy radiation, but can be modded to bleed more energy (melting doors), and a Jedi may eventually modify the blade's real content in real time to actually change its behaviour, but this would require concentration and remain dangerous. This way, a Jedi could redirect the flow of particles and/or energy to a specific zone around the blade.
This would also be necessary to actually contain energy. That way, you also explain why Qui Gon didn't burn himself.
Actually, putting the blade into such a dense material may lead the blade to loose stability, and thus would require Force control to keep it focused.

Added to this, the blade would be a system which would be spinning on the vertical axis, a bit randomly, eventually explaining why trying to roll the blade on its lenght axis might offer new vectors of energy bleeding, explaining Qui Gon's behaviour with the weapon instead of simply poking the door and standing still.

Besides, the artificial skin actually acts as a partially permeable barrier, and notably blaster proof, be it a question of the composition of a blaster bolt, or a matter of frequency.
Eventually, one could even formulate the idea that the lightsabre blade is a stable, refined and controlled form of bolt.

Would particles be needed? It depends on the model you choose. Theorically, with mere energy and electro magnetic fields, you can, with lots of artistic liberty, find your way out.

More on the DET. It's actually possible that the more you breach the barrier formed by the gyroscopic EM arc, some energy will be released. But this skin is immediately recomposed as the intruding object is removed, or destroyed (cut or melted).

Then, why should these shields act as solids when hitting other lightsabres? It's possibly the same principle at work than the one that makes bolts bounce off.
But the blade should not transmit any ridig model back to the transmitter. At best, the blade should look like broken at the point of impact, and the skin may even disperse.

Now, this solid phenomenom can't be related to the Force. Grievous using those lightsabres helps a lot here to see that most, if not all of a lightsabre's features are available to a non Force-sensitive being (unless I'm missing something).
Trouble is that I've read many articles about lightsabres are possible, etc. and all of them talk about blades colliding with each other, mentionning polarity and else, but the problem here is that the blade in SW also transmits its transmitting momentum back to the handle.

Another element is that the blade doesn't act like a noddle when shaked around. It's rigid... to a certain extent. It appears to strech if moved rapidly. It's more than mere motion blur imho. A motion blur would have the luminous "piece of cake" arc getting quite translucent on the edges, and especially on the side of the arc which corresponds to the origin of the angle, where the blade was standing before the movevement. But many caps show that the whole arc is homogeneously opaque, nevermind if it gets close to 15~20° angles.

Another fact is that the blade does carry a given amount of kinetic energy. It has been noticed that Jedi often described large sweeping arcs with their weapon before striking. It's also been noticed that when droids were cut in two, both parts were sent flying away in a direction equaling the vector of incision.
Coupled to the idea of the shapable "soft" blade, it could be that stretching the blade on a given axis actually transforms into some sort of energy axe that gains extra cutting capacity.

However, this does not mesh well with the moment when blades collide. The soft model would see blade actually bend over, not to the Spaceballs levels, but you get my point. And this is a concern regarding those colliding blades I mentionned above.

The lightsabre must have an in-built system which has the capacity to make the blade force the emitter into a new position, like if it formed strong atomic bonds everytime a hit with another blade would occur (and we should see if this would also happen against certain shields or even if blaster bolts "shake" the lightsabre).

When Grievous switches the lightsabres on, there's an obvious recoil going on.

Plus there's Yoda's lightsabre getting stuck in the torso. That's a problem with the theories seen thus far, as the lightsabre should have been moving on its own forever and coming out the other way.
Maybe Yoda used the Force to keep the weapon in place.


As for the power output, let's get sarcastic.

If the ICS says that the SPHA-T were firing megatons into a coreship, and if the inner structure of this coreship didn't explode in some nuclear fashion despite the multiple impaling and critical hits, it means that internal skeleton, the beams, the walls, the struts, all this stuff is able to convey megatons of energy to buffers for further neutrino reradiation (let's keep aside the point about neutrino radiation still representing a considerable DET factor past a certain level of firepower). That's, of course, based on the sink tank model. Which is another point of discussion.

This means that logically, assuming no major change in composition and choice of materials for Trade Federation coreships over a decade, Qui Gon Jinn actually had to pierce through a heavily reinforced door largely able to repel hundreds of kilotons, if not plenty of megatons of energy.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Thinking of it, we have not answered the OP's question.

Let's take TPM's blast door melting event as a yardstick.
Let's pretend that there's a switch on a lightsabre to enhance direct energy transfer if needed.
Let's assume that Qui-Gon either managed to absord the harmful energy, or redirected it towards the door.

That said, what kind of contemporary terran material or alloy used for armor would you use for a conservative figure?

From there, what would be the estimated power of the lightsabre, based on the time and quantity of material melted?

The heat radiation volume's shape would probably look like an elliptic capsule, with the blade being the axis. Though using a cylinder would be simpler.

[Who is like God arbour]

Oh no, now you've done it. To try and propose that any weapon in Star Wars is anything other than DET, you'll have the wrath of the Warsies apon us for sure.

Some would also use it as an argument for DET, not CR, as well, ect.

Im not familiar with the abbreviations DET and CR.

What do they mean?

[Mike DiCenso]

Oh no, now you've done it. To try and propose that any weapon in Star Wars is anything other than DET, you'll have the wrath of the Warsies apon us for sure.

Some would also use it as an argument for DET, not CR, as well, ect.

Im not familiar with the abbreviations DET and CR.

What do they mean?

DET = Direct Energy Transfer

CR = Chain Reaction


-Mike

[Who is like God arbour]

Oh no, now you've done it. To try and propose that any weapon in Star Wars is anything other than DET, you'll have the wrath of the Warsies apon us for sure.

Some would also use it as an argument for DET, not CR, as well, ect.

Im not familiar with the abbreviations DET and CR.

What do they mean?

DET = Direct Energy Transfer

CR = Chain Reaction


-Mike

Sure,

if you know it, it is simple.

Thank you.

[Ted C]

I have to ask if the lightsabres really damage things with DET, or are they doing something else, or a combination of the two?
-Mike

Even if they don't do damage primarily by DET, the TradeFed ship's blast door definitely got hotter and melted as a direct result of the lightsabre's effects. You can therefore use the event to determine lower limits on a lightsabre's potential power output.

[Ted C]

That said, what kind of contemporary terran material or alloy used for armor would you use for a conservative figure?

The sort of structural steel used in modern warships would be the most likely.

[Mike DiCenso]

I have to ask if the lightsabres really damage things with DET, or are they doing something else, or a combination of the two?
-Mike

Even if they don't do damage primarily by DET, the TradeFed ship's blast door definitely got hotter and melted as a direct result of the lightsabre's effects. You can therefore use the event to determine lower limits on a lightsabre's potential power output.

Well, therein lies the problem, Ted. We saw in TPM what looked like melting, but there was no heat, at least nothing that could cook Qui-Gon or the Nemodians on the opposite side of the door to him. Evn assuming regular iron or battleship-quality steel, the heating required to do that in the time it did is something that would have given them some serious burn injuries, especially being so close to it. There is no solid evidence that Force-users are able to shield themselves from such things, and that explanation doesn't wash for other characters like the Nemodians, or someone like Han Solo who have no midiclorian count of significance to be able to use the Force in that manner anyway, yet they suffer no injuries whatsoever.
-Mike


p.s. Welcome to the forum, Ted! :-)

[Ted C]

We saw in TPM what looked like melting, but there was no heat, at least nothing that could cook Qui-Gon or the Nemodians on the opposite side of the door to him.

While Qui-Gonn's health is certainly an issue, there weren't any Nemoidians near the door on their side.

Evn assuming regular iron or battleship-quality steel, the heating required to do that in the time it did is something that would have given them some serious burn injuries, especially being so close to it.

For Qui-Gonn and possibly Obi-Wan, yes, but not the Nemoidians, who were well away from the door in their patent-pending oversized bridge.

There is no solid evidence that Force-users are able to shield themselves from such things, and that explanation doesn't wash for other characters like the Nemodians, or someone like Han Solo who have no midiclorian count of significance to be able to use the Force in that manner anyway, yet they suffer no injuries whatsoever.

This incident itself would suggest that Jedi are able to resist such heat, not to mention the lightsabre fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Ep3, in which they were at times mere inches from molten rock without sustaining any injury. I have no idea why you even mentioned Han Solo, since I can't recall any comparable situation in which he found himself.

The fact is that Qui-Gonn's lightsabre melted a substantial quantity of metal either by direct heating or some kind of secondary effect, and that's more than sufficient information from which to develop a ball-park estimate of power output. What's more, you can probably use it as a high-end estimate, since Qui-Gonn would probably have used more power to get through the door faster if he could have.

[Praeothmin]

There is no solid evidence that Force-users are able to shield themselves from such things

Although there is solid evidence that some Force-users can shield themselves from Lava's heat for quite a long time, as seen in RotS when Anakin and Obi-Wan fought toghether while their "mounts" were flaoting over the Lava flow.
So perhaps Qui-Gonn also had that ability, for the doors did seem to melt, and he did not seem affected by the immense heat that would have been coming from them.

[GStone]

I had thought it was mostly done by the shields that came up from under the platform on top of the heads of the droids that held the bucket to scoop the lava up.

[Ted C]

I had thought it was mostly done by the shields that came up from under the platform on top of the heads of the droids that held the bucket to scoop the lava up.

There does seem to be shielding to protect the droids themselves, but it hardly seems sufficient to protect a human being standing on top of it, exposed to the heat of the entire lava river, to say nothing of the toxic gases often found in such environments (or even the heat of the atmosphere they must be breathing in).

[Dragoon]

I think the 'Han Solo' bit refers to when Solo is using the lightsaber on Hoth.

[Ted C]

I think the 'Han Solo' bit refers to when Solo is using the lightsaber on Hoth.

Ah. Still don't see why it would be a problem, though. It's pretty obvious that lightsabre's don't directly radiate huge amounts of heat, even though solids that they contact get hot. It's pretty obviously a secondary effect. There's no reason to think tauntaun flesh would get nearly as hot as a bulkhead door.