Survival kit (in a can).

Post by **Trinoya** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:04 am

Just a quick debate topic to present here.

Equipment: Essentially who is the most commonly better equipped of the two universes? This assumes that they are not being deployed for any specific mission, etc. so were going with the mass produced standard supplies.

What I want to construct here, essentially, is a discussion in regards to film and novel based evidence on what is the average equipment and who ultimately has the better of the two.

Single and group equipment of course.

Single:

Storm trooper: Gun, Armor, Uniform
Red Shirt: Phaser, Tricorder, Uniform, Communication/Location badge

Group:

Empire: At least 10-15 deployed squad, most likely consisting of a medic, scout, and basic infantry. Guns and Armor + uniform appears standard. Additionally light vehicles are deployed.

Federation: Portable medical kits, transporter equipment, tricorders, phasers, phaser rifles, and commbadge. Average size 5-6 people. Additionally equipment such as comm-relays, replicators, or supply kits are deployed.

Obviously the federation has an advantage in knowing the area, but in fight-to-fight they are outnumbered and cannot cover the same amount of ground easily as a ship normally aids the transporter option.

Again, this isn't assuming mass deployment on a planetary scale. This assumes small, or possibly accidental deployment.

Further evidence (both contributions and counter evidence) extremely welcome. Another good thing would be to see what both sides could do with their equipment (examples: Feds can make a shield with the combadge and a tool, while storms will not have to worry nearly as much about shelter).

2046 · Post by **2046** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:42 pm

Is this a "lost in the wild, who lives longest?" comparison, or is it that both groups got sent down then their ships left and they have to fight?

In any case, we do know that a stormtrooper has at least squad-level comm gear in the helmet, if not surface-to-ship. But for our purposes, at least, they're more or less equal in that regard.

We don't know what all a stormtrooper carries on his person. Taking Luke's stolen belt as an example, they at least have rope with a hook on it, which in a forest could enable decent tree-climbing for foraging or hunting as needed.

I'd also wager that surface-deployed units have at least some basic gear in case they get stuck . . . you could fit more than a few multi-vitamins and water filters / chemical treatment pills in those little cylindrical fanny-packs that stormies often have.

And, if you don't mind losing a helmet, you've got a good ole bucket, which can be invaluable.

For the Federation, I think the only time we saw someone with even just water was the hardass from "Nor the Battle to the Strong"[DSN5], which IIRC was just a little rip-open less-than-8oz package. And we know they have effective emergency rations, though these seem to be carried only infrequently. Average away teams in TOS and TNG seem to carry almost nothing except for phasers, communicators, a couple of tricorders, and a medkit (and that last one only most of the time).

Only during the TOS films did they have those bulky field jackets, which at least had the advantage of a multitude of pockets and doodads that could possibly be survival-oriented. Otherwise, it is, effectively, just usually a bunch of armed, scanner-equipped naked people beaming down.

But then on the flipside, a runabout's survival kit / emergency beacon thing has several water bottles, metal forks, and even a pepper shaker ("Waltz"[DSN6]). So it isn't like these people don't know how to go ridiculously-well-equipped.

Certainly I would be more enthusiastic about the whole living-off-the-land thing if I had a tricorder so I could know what was edible, but I'd rather not have to start figuring that out immediately after beam-down.

SailorSaturn13 · Post by **SailorSaturn13** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:55 am

Well, obviously the "Beam Mentality" (if I need something, I order to beam it down) is prevalent in ST...

AnonymousRedShirtEnsign · Post by **AnonymousRedShirtEnsign** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:37 am

Which era are the troops from (TNG, TOS, Ent, PT, OT; I'll assume TNG and OT)? If they are just away teams/ squads then the red shirts probably have an advantage in terms of sensors and firepower, but the Stormies have numbers. By the way, where does the 10-15 stormtroopers per squad come from? Another thing to keep in mind from a survival aspect, phasers are useful for things other than killing people. You can vaporize yourself a cave for shelter, or heat a rock for warmth. On a low setting, you can heat water, so you can boil away harmful bacteria for drinking water.

2046 · Post by **2046** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:03 am

AnonymousRedShirtEnsign wrote:On a low setting, you can heat water, so you can boil away harmful bacteria for drinking water.

Ah, but stored in what? ;)

No, you're quite right that a phaser allows for all sorts of things. Carving a rock into a bowl comes to mind, then heating it for water purposes. Even a 2350's-era tricorder could also be used to start a fire per one of the Jeri Taylor novels, so fire's not an issue provided you have something combustible to play with.

Food can still be a problem . . . a redshirt will probably die a bit quicker than a stormtrooper, assuming they carry at least a cookie in their fanny pack.

AnonymousRedShirtEnsign · Post by **AnonymousRedShirtEnsign** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:14 am

To change the scenario a little, if both sides came in a shuttle that crashed, the pilots died and they can't fix the shuttle, the red shirts would totally win. Starfleet shuttles carry loads of useful crap in them, on the other hand Han's special commando unit didn't take any cool useful stuff out of their Imperial shuttle, and they knew about where they were going.

Post by **Trinoya** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:45 am

Ah, I do tend to not be very specific, I apologize all. The era in question is any essentailly, so that is not an issue... the idea was to get more of a comprehensive idea of who has the best odds at surviving and possibly taking out the other.

An interesting note: A friend of mine recommended to me that both survive well when the starfleet training kicks in and they talk their way into working together...

Anyway, this is mostly just a general comparison of the two universes base equipment at its bearest not much more.

To add to my own topic: I believe that the red 'shirt' would be of extreme use in this situation... litterally, it rips nice and easy for modification and you still have shoes and pants left to wear. I can think of MILLIONS of uses a good ripped piece of cloth could have, and if you can't think of any, you can always use it as a towel. ^_-

Also a quick counter argument to 2046: Wouldn't the sensitive electronics make use of the helment as a bucket undisireable... it would pretty much mean that it has little use for anything else but a helment or bucket afterwords. No displays or communications anymore.

Then again, they would have a bucket AND peripheral vision... so... I guess it would balance out... :P (joke)