Yeah, I know. Just kidding. ;)Praeothmin wrote:Not a valid reason In Universe, so not acceptable in this case.PG rating.
It is exactly like trying to say TIDC in ST is valid example of Trek power, because the writers wanted to show the crust being destroyed, but the VFX guys screwed up the effects.
Again, not valid...
Frankly, Force powers are Lucas' trump card just as much as Trek has its technobabble. It's just speechless.
The best thing to do is probably to settle on an average.
There's not many live oponents, non FS, who've been subject to Force powers.And the Jedi in the Temple, and Mace Windu, and the Geonosians.There's Anakin, but he just prefered to slay all the CIS representatives with his lightsabre.
Which reminds me that Anakin did use Force push against them, but since they weren't really quick or powerful, and that their only true weapons were those... Ballblasters... which weren't in use at the start of the fight, they come under the "slow, dull-witted" opponents.
But remember that Anakin has been trained as a Jedi, and the Jedi really strike me as completely lightsabre centric.
It's all about that neon, really.
They're quite delusional. They believe it's the best weapon in any situation, the best shield, and above all, they think it's a weapon of a more civilized age, but when we get to see what a civilized age means, we got to see that it corresponds to playing interstellar cops and maiming people to capture them.
Or did I miss the moment when Obi-Wan switched his lightsabre to stun mode, before poking Wesell? Or against that scum in the cantina at Mos Eisley?
Civilized? My ass. Even the stormtroopers were more civilized when they zated Leia.
Ah, this reminds of this long long rant I dropped at B² years ago.
All Jedi of the now destroyed Order seemed literally brainwashed in the idea that using the Force in any real direct manner against any living being was a bad thing.
Not only that, but the lightsabre was T3h toy of the Jedi.
You can shave with it, have sex with it, lit a dark room, parade with it. Above all, you must NEVER loose it.
Remember how Obi-Wan reprimended Anakin for loosing his lightsabre?
I mean, sure, it's the only thing they actually have to defend themselves (which says a lot, really), but it clearly ranges beyond that.
That's the way I see it. They sanctify that weapon. They're two fingers away from claiming its their closest and best friend.
To me, they're simply taught that the lightsabre is the be all and end all of everything, and most Force uses should either be about amplifying and enhancing the use of the lightsabre, or for meditation, rarely for anything else.
Zen and samurai-way all in one. Which was nicely illustrated with the duel between Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul, when they got stuck in between the shield layers.
The Sith, though using the Jedi ways (Qui-Gon's words), are less reluctant to drop the lightsabre and directly engage their oponent with Force powers.
Anakin likes to use his lightsabre probably because he's been taught to use it, and knows how to. It's a fast killing weapon. It's quite brutal but refined at the same time, and above all, this is what he did when he killed the Tuskens.
I think this initial rage still strongly influenced the way he behaved after that. It fueled his rage, and gave him strenght.
Dooku, who's a fierce swordsman, didn't hesitate to go full Force against Yoda, before switching to the lightsabre.
Now, I won't comment on why he completely dropped Force powers from there.
AOTC is one of the worst films of the PT imho, and many things in it embarass me to no ends.
Concentrate as stare with his big eyes and move his hands to emphasis his action?Yup, Dokuu whipped up that Force choke pretty quick against Obi-Wan, but in AotC, he had to concentrate to bring down the pillar watchamacallit down on Obi and Ani.It depends on the task. Dooku seemed pretty instinctive and instantaneous in his use of the Force, just like Sidious
It took precious seconds during which Yoda, if any Force powers were instantaneous, could have flung him accross the room like he did the Emperor in RotS.
But, as we saw in both these Force battles, concentration (even slight concentration) is needed for big Force use.
That seems right.
Like Yoda with the X-Wing. Actually, they're obviously all required to drop everything else in favor of the subject of the soon to be executed Force power.
Sorry, but I think I did at least start providing the first bricks of evidence for that:Your argument is interesting, but without anything to back it up, it is merely an assumption, and as they say in "Under Siege: Dark Territory":I think it has to do with the school of thought.
"Assumption is the mother off all fu**-ups!" :-)
"I think it has to do with the school of thought. QuiGon Jinn had a rogue influence on Obi-Wan, but the young padawan was quite convinced that his master wasn't doing the right choice in staying distant from the ways taught in the Jedi temple, where the lightsabre is uber glorified and you must castigate yourself for using the Force.
Well, arguably, Qui Gon Jinn's master was Dooku, I think.
It explains his greyness and intensive use of the Force on living beings.
Obi-Wan was well more respectful of the retentive dogma."
We've seen how Qui-Gon was the one heavily using the Force against droids or living beings to get what he wanted of them (Boss Nass, Wattoo).
Obi-Wan used a TK only once on a droid, when his master was alive. After that, he only used a mind trick to convince a teen to stop his drug business, unlock a door, healed Padmé as best as he could. There's of course the usual Force cushion to survive high falls, or eventually his Force TK to crush the magnaguards under a big metal crane, when he faced Grievous, but there's not much else to chat about.
However, once the Jedi were destroyed, and once he and Yoda grew older and reflected on what happened, on how the Jedi Order might have been too rigid and wrong, we saw him mind trick stormtroopers.
But again, it was for a real direct defensive purpose, mainly because those imperial guys would be a real problem otherwise, and could harm Luke and capture the droids.
Qui-Gon used his powers to get spare parts or entire vehicless. It's not dark per se, but not pure either. But it was necessary.
In the end, his purposes were more related to the acquisition of goods than about direct survival.
Luke, on the other way, was clearly treading the line, using the Force choke on the Gamoreans, and mind tricking Jabba's Twi'lek assistant.
Again, Luke didn't really go study to that old and outdated Jedi school. Obi-Wan and Yoda mostly needed a weapon to destroy Palpatine and Vader. It was a gamble.
On the same hand, even if they knew that something was wrong with the older Jedi Order, they were not going to question everything. They still educated Luke with what they knew and learnt themselves. Proof as Ben's speech. Even older and wiser, he's still in complete admiration of the lightsabre.
Only a completely reformed Jedi Order, or the Sith, could take a different route and develop trainings and beliefs heavily based on the use of the Force.
Since I doubt any respected Jedi would ever do that, only a Sith could come to such a reliance on the Force for any task.
There's probably a nice analogy to draw.
In many RPG games, being a mage is a difficult quest and requires time. You have to level your character up, which is initially very weak.
So appear the monk or paladin classes, depending of the rules, where you're first invited to use blades and other normal weapons, while you devlop your powers.
The lightsabre is quite that. It deals a lot of damage, is a trademark of the Jedi and seems to be a weapon that means a lot to a large portion of the galaxy. I suppose that when a lightsabre is switched on, be you the average Joe, you can't help but freeze for a moment.
All this helps the padawan to gain more respect and trust, while he develops his powers.
However, the Jedi dogma seems to refuse to completely switch to Force powers.
Only the Sith appear to embrace that route, and yet, it seems that even a powerful Sith can't really completely rely on the Force to win, possibly because no being can really be able to fully handle the Force.
That's probably why all of them still largely use the lightsabre, and rarely use Force powers.
That said, I'd like to see a Jedi sniper at least once. :)
Either because it's excruciatingly tiring, or because they didn't have the ability to repel energy with a Force wall.Since it is described as such in the movie novelisations, it is probably true, but what about when a Force user faces a non-Force user, like Jango vs Obi-Wan.That said, I've always believed that we only see the tip of the iceberg during such a battle.
After all, they're both tapping energy from a same "realm", and they're located close to each other.
It's like while there's a physical battle in our reality, there's a similar battle on the Force plane.
Sometimes, there's a crack in an oponent's Force aura, and a Jedi or Sith can use it quickly to strike a Force coup.
We didn't see Obi use much of the Force, when a simple Force push, or a Force yank of Jango's weapons would have been useful.
The fact is, although they can come up with the excuse that against another Force user, they are both cancelling each other's powers through the Force, that explanation doesn't hold water when facing an ordinary opponent.
For example, the Force Wall ability which many Pro-Wars argue all Force users have.
Why haven't we seen it used at Geonosis, against all those droids?
It would sure have been useful.
Seriously, it took Vader an armor and whatever Force trick to stop Han's blasts with his hand, and Yoda needed to focus and concentrate to stop lightning with bare hands, that is, cast something probably very close to a Force absorption shield.
On the other hand, Dooku was able to quickly deflect the lightning bolt Yoda sent him back. But Dooku was very powerful anyway.
That's why I can't see the average Jedi, even a master, happily jump in a melee and cast Force walls.
It's also possible that the fact that the lightsabre is always on, the Jedi can keep most of their concentration focused on other things, like the larger scope of a battle area, rather than use most of their concentration to focus on the incoming projectiles and cast a shield, lowering their attention regarding the rest of the action.
You bet it did! :)And Ulysse 31 rocked... :-)
