Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

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Mith
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Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mith » Fri May 20, 2011 3:48 am

Star Trek Planetary Shields
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... tml#Planet

"Luckily, the Federation does not possess the technology to create powerful planetary energy shields, and are limited to partial-shields which only prevent matter-energy transportation. This allows us to bombard their planetary populations at will even with very small starship groups. Some cultists dispute the fact that they lack planetary shielding technology, but no Federation planet has ever been demonstrated to be capable of surviving orbital bombardment without assistance from starships. In Way of the Warrior, it was stated that the Klingons were "fortifying their positions and deploying orbital defense systems", perhaps similar to the orbital defense systems used by the Dominion in their defensive stand against fleets of Federation and Klingon warships. If they possessed the ability to build planetary shields capable of withstanding massive orbital bombardments, flimsy orbital defense systems would be unnecessary."

Oh Wong...

Star Trek Planetary Shields

It has been argued by more than one warsie or debater that Star Trek does not in fact, employ any sort of planetary shielding or even ground shielding. Many a Trekkie will often refer to episodes such as ‘Dagger of the Mind’ or ‘Whom Gods Destroy’ as evidence of planetary shielding. In some cases, the Lights of Zetar will also be referenced, if one remembers the off hand quote at the beginning of said episode. However, this will often result in two types of responses:

It only blocks transporters.

To be honest, I’m not sure why so many people seem to be hung up on this. In regards to Dagger of the Mind, a great focus was put on requesting that the shield be lowered so that the prisoners could be beamed up. Yes, that was a big deal–but not surprising. Shields block transporters all the time, to the point that even on TNG/DS9/VOY it’s an obstacle for when the ships own shields are up (though even now that seems less of a problem, depending if the writers remember the trick used in ‘The Wounded’).

However, it’s understandable where some people get this misconception from–yes, there is a large planetary based shield that only blocks transporters. Those familiar with this discussion will already know the answer; The Undiscovered Country. This occurs when Captain James T. Kirk and Spock are taken prisoner and sentenced to a work camp by the Klingon courts on Rura Penthe:



The Undiscovered Country
KLINGON COMMANDANT: This is the gulag Rura Penthe. There is no stockade, no guard tower, no electronic frontier. Only a magnetic shield prevents beaming. Punishment means exile from prison to the surface. On the surface, nothing can survive. ...Work well and you will be treated well. Work badly and you will die.


And there you go, the source of our constant brain bug. People remember the magnetic shield for what is a prison camp used by the Klingons and for some reason attribute it to the same used by the Federation for their insane asylums. However, one immediately spots the problems. The first point is that just because the Klingons use a magnetic shield does not mean it has any impact upon Federation shields; they’re clearly different devices used by two different sorts of interstellar powers. Second, why would anyone even think that the existence of a magnetic shield prevents the existence of a normal deflector type shield we see on starships? It goes back to the whole ‘prisoner’ subject that people link the two with. People associate that both are places where prisoners of sorts are kept and therefore assume that the same applies to each other.

One could easily see someone attributing ‘The Dagger of the Mind’ shields and The Undiscovered Country together. After all, it’s entirely possible that asylum’s shield was only magnetic, as we don’t see it really tested in any other way than an obstacle for transporters. However, no such argument can be used in ‘Whom Gods Destroy’, as we clearly see here:


Whom Gods Destroy
SULU: We can't beam anybody down, sir. The force field on the planet is in full operation, and all forms of transport into the asylum dome are blocked off.
SCOTT: We could blast our way through the field, but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mister Spock and any other living thing on Elba Two.
MCCOY: How can we be powerful enough to wipe out a planet and still be so helpless?


Here Scotty and Sulu clearly indicate the physical obstacle of the force field. If the shield were incapable of blocking anything more than transporters, than lowering the phaser output to simply destroying a small target would be simple child’s play to the Enterprise crew. Or a low-yield torpedo that we know, as of the 22nd century, could be reduced down to absurdly small yields.

Surely, it would not require that the Enterprise fire so hard that it risks destroying their people on the surface. But still, what if one were to suggest that emitter is too dangerously close to the compound, which is their true concern? Well alright, but here’s the problem with that:


Whom Gods Destroy
SCOTT: Sensor readings?
SULU: The force field is weakest on the far side of the planet. We can send down a shuttlecraft carrying a team in environmental suits.
MCCOY: It won't work, Scotty. They'd have to cover thousands of miles through poisonous atmosphere before they'd ever reach the asylum.
SCOTT: Aye, you're right. Even if they made it, they couldn't carry anything powerful enough to break through the asylum dome. Only the ship herself could do that.
MCCOY: Probably kill Jim and Spock.
SCOT: Doctor, they may already be dead.


The force field is weakest on the far side of the planet, to which Sulu suggests that they could punch through there. Presumably this means that the Enterprise wouldn’t have to fire as hard to penetrate and risk the captain and his first officer. So again, this suggests that the shield itself is a physical barrier. But of course, one might look at the above quote and again, think that Sulu was hoping to fly the shuttle through the weak point, not blast through it with phasers (even though that makes absolutely no sense given that the force field wouldn’t block solid objects to begin with...). To ensure no confusion:


Whom Gods Destroy
SCOTT: Well, there's one last thing we might try. Perhaps the ship's phasers can cut through a section of the force field at its weakest point. Where did you say that was located, Mister Sulu?
SULU: On the far side of the planet, Mister Scott.
MCCOY: Will it leave a margin of safety for the people below?
SULU: Yes, sir.
SCOTT: Prepare to change orbital path, Mister Sulu.
SULU: Orbital co-ordinates released, sir.


Scotty here confirms that they will use the ship’s phasers to cut through the force field on the far side of the planet. If the field offered no protection other than an obstacle for beam ins and outs, then this wouldn’t even be part of the discussion. By now, you’ve concluded that there is sufficient evidence to prove that planets have planetary shielding–but you say, what if this only applies to prison planets? Well, that is often the weak response by many unskilled debaters, hoping to slip one by you in an attempt to pretend that Starfleet is composed of idiots:


The Lights of Zetar
UHURA: Sir, I'm unable to establish contact with the planetoid. I'm hailing on all frequencies. No response.
SPOCK: It is of little consequence, Captain. Memory Alpha has no protective shields.
KIRK: No shields?
SPOCK: None, Captain. When the library complex was assembled, shielding was considered inappropriate to its totally academic purpose. Since the information on the Memory planet is available to everyone, special protection was deemed unnecessary.


Kirk was surprised that the planetoid had not shields to speak of. Spock informed him of the open policy for Memory Alpha as the reason for a lack of shielding. Now, your opponent may try and double back on you, responding with something akin to ‘well, yeah but that’s a planetoid! Actual planets are much larger!’ and this is true, but in the end, simply an attempt to confuse you. We already established that the Federation and Starfleet by extension, are capable of shielding entire planets, as in regards to ‘Whom Gods Destroy’. The ‘Lights of Zetar’ simply proves that they use it for more than just prisons.

So...why do the Klingons only make use of a few km wide magnetic dome shields? Well, the thing that people tend to miss/ignore is that the work camp is located on a frozen hell hole. You’d be lucky to make it out of the shield’s radius before you froze to death, let alone before the Klingons hunt you down. And even if you do escape...so what? Kirk and Spock were the exception; they had a ship waiting for them. They knew that. It’s very unlikely that this is a common occurrence with most prisoners.

The Klingons didn’t have a proper shield because one wasn’t needed. The only way you’d survive is by working hard in the mines because failing to do so would earn you exile into the frozen wasteland. The magnetic shield there was a deterrent, not any real sort of defense against escape attempts. Because we know that even Kirk and Spock’s escape was a set up by the Klingons to have him killed. Kirk was just fortunate in that the Enterprise arrived on time to save him and Spock.

That’s from The Original Series (TOS). It doesn’t count.

A typical argument for the poorly armed debater, they simply fall back on the ‘it’s old Trek, so it doesn’t count’, often citing something absurdly silly from the old series or something that has clearly been phased out as evidence that we must assume that everything has been phased out.

Now, it’s not unusual for one to point to TOS and say that because it’s old, that some things are no longer kept because the concept of Star Trek has changed as a show. Warp battles no longer really occur unless one ship is running the other down, where as in TOS, even a difference in warp factor would greatly change the outcome of a battle, such as in the case of an Orion ship using a higher warp factor to easily strike the Enterprise with little fear of return fire in ‘Babylon’. Impulse speed battles also allow for more visual effects that are more appealing.

So to outright dismiss that a retcon has occurred would be unfair to the other side. But...is there an example of planetary shielding? Best of Both Worlds makes little references to any sort of shield and neither did DS9, other than a vague reference to some sort of defense system. So how can one prove that planetary shields have continued to exist in the 24th century?

Well first off, we have to avoid using other species outside of the Federation’s sphere of influence. Someone in the Delta Quadrant protecting their prison with metaphasic shielding isn’t exactly a good way to prove that the Federation has this technology. However, rival powers like the Romulans and the Klingons are known to be on the same level with the Federation, though obviously the best evidence would be from Federation sources as well. But as the accusations of ‘anti-transporter shields only’ started with the Klingons, then let us begin our defense with them as well:

The Sins of the Father:
DURAS: The Romulans lowered the outpost shields themselves. They were given the defense access code! The record clearly show the Romulan patrol ship receiving a personal transmission from Mogh seconds before the shields fell.


The Sins of the Father revolves around the accusation that Worf’s father gave the Romulans the command codes that would allow the Romulans to dismantle the shield over Khitomer, Worf’s home as a child. Whether or not that entire planet was engulfed by these codes is unknown, but it does support that planetary shields of a sort are in action. No doubt now, your opponents will try and claim that the Klingons are war like or that this may only be Klingon technology. However, that is clearly not the case:


Gambit
ARAN: Our next objective should prove an interesting challenge. We're headed for the Sakethan burial mounds on Calder Two.
PICARD: What? Calder Two isn't just another archaeological site, you know. It's a Federation outpost there.
BARAN: I don't see that as a problem.
PICARD: It's defended by Starfleet. You don't think they're just going to stand by while we walk in there and take whatever we want.
BARAN: I'm familiar with the tactical situation.
VEKOR: What are their defenses?
BARAN: Nothing to worry about. They have a type four deflector shield protecting the outpost and the ruins.
PICARD: They also have a minimum of two phaser banks and possibly photon torpedoes. Is that enough to worry about?
TALLERA: How do you know so much about this outpost?
PICARD: Because I tried to smuggle a Sakethan glyph stone out of there nearly two years ago. I barely got away in one piece.
BARAN: Our weapons are more than a match for their defenses. I anticipate that we'll be able to destroy the outpost within fifteen minutes. Then we'll send in Tallera and the landing party to secure the relics.
PICARD: Why don't we use Riker? He's a Starfleet Commander. He could talk us past the outpost security without raising their suspicions. Then when their shields go down, we can beam the artefacts up here without ever leaving the ship.



Now again, we run into a problem that we don’t know how large this shield is–but we do receive confirmation that it is a deflector shield–ones used on starships. It’s not some sort of magnetic shield that just blocks transporters. While this one is clearly a weak shield, given that a mercenary’s ship could possibly overpower it, keep in mind that it probably isn’t a high order military installation, but more likely one that considers raiders and pirates trying to get to the valuable goods on the planet.

Well, why go further now? The evidence has been provided that planet-based shielding still exists. Two sources cite it, one of Klingon origin and one of Starfleet. Why go further? Well, because all of our examples above have shown weak shielding. Yeah, Khitomer was utterly destroyed because the Romulans had the codes–but we don’t know what forces the Romulans were using or really anything in regards to how powerful the shield was. It may be implied that it could have stopped the Romulans, but it isn’t really definitive proof.
This is:

Apocalypse Rising
DAMAR: Personally, I think we'd be better off launching an orbital assault on Gowron's command centre. A full spread of photon torpedoes would take care of him, the Klingon High Command and everyone else within a few hundred kilometres.
ODO: You should ask Dukat for some shore leave. I think you've been in space too long.
DAMAR: Why? Because I'm willing to spill a little Klingon blood to get the job done?
O'BRIEN: Shelling Ty'Gokor won't get the job done. You'd be lucky to launch one torpedo before they shot you down. Besides, even a dozen won't penetrate the shielding around the command center.


Clear cut. O’Brien clearly states that even a dozen torpedoes wouldn’t penetrate the shielding around the commander center–and it was so well defended that it would be unlikely that a Klingon Bird of Prey (stolen by Dukat and Damar) would be able to fire more than one torpedo. So this, as well as the implied capability of the Khitomer outpost shield suggests that planet shielding is still alive and well.

Conclusions

Starfleet has at least proven that it can protect its planets with planet-scaled shielding. This is referenced in ‘Dagger of the Mind’, ‘Whom God’s Destroy’, ‘The Lights of Zetar’, and 'Gambit'. Other powers such as ‘The Undiscovered Country’, ‘Sins of the Father’, and ‘Apocalypse Rising’ clearly show that they aren’t the only power and that such problems are often taken into consideration by other powers during invasions or attacks.

The claim that this is something just from TOS is clearly not true. While we don’t have direct confirmation that neither Khitomer’s or Calder II’s shield encompassed the entire planet–and Apocalypse Rising suggests that the shielding may just be around the command center, it is not required as we simply need to prove that the shielding concept has survived the change in eras. Just because some shields do not encompass the entire plants while others do does not automatically mean that one no longer exists.

Now, a last ditch argument might include something like, "well, only the Klingon's shields were effective against attacks!' or something similarly absurd. Yeah, except Klingon deflector technology isn't discernibly anymore advanced than Federation or Romulan, so making the claim ranges from silly to absurd. And just as importantly, Spock's statement would have been silly in 'The Lights of Zetar' if such shields stood no chance of stopping anything that the Enterprise's shields might have.

And Wong? If you're reading this, putting up some sort of planetary shield or even domed shield would be under the classification of 'fortifying their positions'. And odd as it may seem, some colonies or military obtained outposts might actually like the option of shooting back at their enemies rather than sitting behind a shield that they pray won't fail for whatever reason. You know, like someone bringing in a fleet large enough and powerful enough to overpower your planetary shields. Or on the off chance that someone brought in a large, spherical oversized torpedo boat, monitored your shield grid for any weakness to overload your grid to create a hole to target your generator, you might just have a chance if you had the option to shoot it down first.

But I mean, what are the chances of that happening, am I right?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Torpedo_sphere

Right?

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Mith
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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mith » Fri May 20, 2011 4:00 am

...Fuck, wrong forum. Can a mod lend a hand please?

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Admiral Breetai » Fri May 20, 2011 5:56 am

"it's TOS so it does not count" people have actually used this as a debate tactic? it's hardly legitimate at all TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY and possibly ENT are all primary canon that's a rather flimsy half baked tactic

while I think you did good effort one thing I'd like to toss out here is I think Ty'Gokor was in an asteroid a rather large one but an asteroid none the less so them only raising a shield around the commander center and co is purely due to that not any lack of technology.

a good feat I'd add for "planetoid" shield durability in trek was the first battle of Chin'toka if memory serves the asteroid that housed the main power that fed the orbital defenses was shielded and with stood an assault from the ships and then briefly held out under bombardment from torpedoes fired off from the platforms and if memory serves more than what was as per TNG canon to bust a moon into fragments and kill a planet..so they'd be tough real tough

can't add any more..rest is sound

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mith » Fri May 20, 2011 3:32 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:"it's TOS so it does not count" people have actually used this as a debate tactic? it's hardly legitimate at all TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY and possibly ENT are all primary canon that's a rather flimsy half baked tactic

while I think you did good effort one thing I'd like to toss out here is I think Ty'Gokor was in an asteroid a rather large one but an asteroid none the less so them only raising a shield around the commander center and co is purely due to that not any lack of technology.

a good feat I'd add for "planetoid" shield durability in trek was the first battle of Chin'toka if memory serves the asteroid that housed the main power that fed the orbital defenses was shielded and with stood an assault from the ships and then briefly held out under bombardment from torpedoes fired off from the platforms and if memory serves more than what was as per TNG canon to bust a moon into fragments and kill a planet..so they'd be tough real tough

can't add any more..rest is sound
The problem with that is that the image shown to us shows a round object where the base is, suggesting that it's at least a planetoid and it was probably a planet all things considered, given that it appeared to be planet-sized.

I could be wrong, so I'll check later.

EDIT:

Yeah, it was a planetoid located within an asteroid field, but it appears to be a rather large one, if that is true:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Tygokor.jpg
SISKO: According to Starfleet intelligence, Chancellor Gowron has relocated Klingon military headquarters to Ty'Gokor.
WORF: That will make our job more difficult. Ty'Gokor is located in an asteroid field deep in Klingon space. It is probably the most heavily fortified installation in the Empire.
SISKO: There are at least thirty warships stationed there at any given time and the entire asteroid field is protected by a tachyon detection grid.
O'BRIEN: Which means there's no way we can get a cloaked ship within transporter range.
Also, looking over my statement, I did already suggest that the field was implied to be around the command center, not the entire planetoid itself, so there's no real reason that this would be a problem.

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Admiral Breetai » Fri May 20, 2011 3:52 pm

Mith wrote: The problem with that is that the image shown to us shows a round object where the base is, suggesting that it's at least a planetoid and it was probably a planet all things considered, given that it appeared to be planet-sized.

I could be wrong, so I'll check later.

EDIT:

Yeah, it was a planetoid located within an asteroid field, but it appears to be a rather large one, if that is true:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Tygokor.jpg
SISKO: According to Starfleet intelligence, Chancellor Gowron has relocated Klingon military headquarters to Ty'Gokor.
WORF: That will make our job more difficult. Ty'Gokor is located in an asteroid field deep in Klingon space. It is probably the most heavily fortified installation in the Empire.
SISKO: There are at least thirty warships stationed there at any given time and the entire asteroid field is protected by a tachyon detection grid.
O'BRIEN: Which means there's no way we can get a cloaked ship within transporter range.
Also, looking over my statement, I did already suggest that the field was implied to be around the command center, not the entire planetoid itself, so there's no real reason that this would be a problem.
ah, I remember it being an actual asteroid than again if it's a planetoid with no livable space and they have no terraforming operations there I don't see why he'd need to shield the entire planet, when backed up by TOS and other examples I don't think theres precedence to claim they can only shield certain objects

one example I've always heard against the planetary shield argument was Kor's raid on that Dominion planet with Martok and Worf my issue with that is..the Dominion consider their own troops to be not worth such considerations since they can always grow more and they seemed to consider the Cardassians less than well trained war animals at that stage in the war

plus we saw a Dominion shipyard on a star so well shielded it required the Rotaren to literally hurl a huge piece of star surface at it to take it down

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Fri May 20, 2011 4:09 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:"it's TOS so it does not count" people have actually used this as a debate tactic? it's hardly legitimate at all TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY and possibly ENT are all primary canon that's a rather flimsy half baked tactic
According to viacom and paramount everything on screen is canon, nothing at all is ever mentioned in regards to retcons ect.

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri May 20, 2011 5:37 pm

Mith wrote: The Lights of Zetar
UHURA: Sir, I'm unable to establish contact with the planetoid. I'm hailing on all frequencies. No response.
SPOCK: It is of little consequence, Captain. Memory Alpha has no protective shields.
KIRK: No shields?
SPOCK: None, Captain. When the library complex was assembled, shielding was considered inappropriate to its totally academic purpose. Since the information on the Memory planet is available to everyone, special protection was deemed unnecessary.


Kirk was surprised that the planetoid had not shields to speak of. Spock informed him of the open policy for Memory Alpha as the reason for a lack of shielding. Now, your opponent may try and double back on you, responding with something akin to ‘well, yeah but that’s a planetoid! Actual planets are much larger!’ and this is true, but in the end, simply an attempt to confuse you. We already established that the Federation and Starfleet by extension, are capable of shielding entire planets, as in regards to ‘Whom Gods Destroy’. The ‘Lights of Zetar’ simply proves that they use it for more than just prisons.
Memory Alpha is the name of the complex as well. The shields could just cover the complex, and not even be one single dome btw.

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mith » Fri May 20, 2011 6:21 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Mith wrote: The Lights of Zetar
UHURA: Sir, I'm unable to establish contact with the planetoid. I'm hailing on all frequencies. No response.
SPOCK: It is of little consequence, Captain. Memory Alpha has no protective shields.
KIRK: No shields?
SPOCK: None, Captain. When the library complex was assembled, shielding was considered inappropriate to its totally academic purpose. Since the information on the Memory planet is available to everyone, special protection was deemed unnecessary.


Kirk was surprised that the planetoid had not shields to speak of. Spock informed him of the open policy for Memory Alpha as the reason for a lack of shielding. Now, your opponent may try and double back on you, responding with something akin to ‘well, yeah but that’s a planetoid! Actual planets are much larger!’ and this is true, but in the end, simply an attempt to confuse you. We already established that the Federation and Starfleet by extension, are capable of shielding entire planets, as in regards to ‘Whom Gods Destroy’. The ‘Lights of Zetar’ simply proves that they use it for more than just prisons.
Memory Alpha is the name of the complex as well. The shields could just cover the complex, and not even be one single dome btw.
Hmm, also possible, though I doubt it would require more than one shield in any case. More than one emitter of course, but there's no reason to believe that they would need mulitple shields if we already know that their one shield grid encompassed the entire planet.

Mind you, the point of Lights of Zetar was that shields were for more than just prisons, not of its actual size.

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Fri May 20, 2011 6:45 pm

If Neelix and some of his people can put up a shield around a huge asteroid by firing emitters into it from his ship that are then powered by the crap the roid contained as soon as the last one hits the dirt than ANY argument about trek not having the ability to do the same or much greater becomes absurd as soon as you mention it.

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri May 20, 2011 8:02 pm

What the heck is a Trek shield thread doing here? I'm moving this to the Trek/Wars section.
-Mike

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Fri May 20, 2011 8:05 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:What the heck is a Trek shield thread doing here? I'm moving this to the Trek/Wars section.
-Mike


I need to use the "view active topics" button less....:).

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri May 20, 2011 8:53 pm

This is old ground. We've covered all the issues before. In fact, given the Imperiwiki entry on planetary shields, I would say that Wong is not necessarily focusing on the Rura Penthe shield, but rather on the Tantalus Colony shields from "Dagger of the Mind" [TOS: season 2]. However, that shield was never tested by weapons fire the way that the Elba II one was, so we cannot say with any certainty what it's full capabilties are.

Further more, Mith is also forgetting that Chakotay in VOY's "Year of Hell, Part 2" refers to planetary shielding when he notes to Annorax that if Janeway has given temporal shielding technology to various races that they will be able to protect their planets from the Krenim temporal weapon.

Also in VOY, the Kraylor homeworld as shown in the Voyager episode "Nightingale" has a planetary shield grid that is capable of not only repelling energy weapons, but also prevents ships from physically reaching the surface. Starfleet officer Ensign Harry Kim showed no suprise or astonishment at the existance or capabilites of the Kraylor's defenses

For more examples, see the Starfleet Jedi Database entry on planetary shields

As for Memory Alpha, the planetoid it was on was a near-perfect spheroid, limiting how small such a thing could be. Certainly not less than Saturn's 400 km moon Mimas, and probably not much larger than Pluto at 2,300 km. We also have seen in the TOS Remastered version that the Memory Alpha complex itself spans an enourmous amount of the planetoid's surface area as seen in the images available here.
-Mike

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by User1619 » Sat May 21, 2011 4:16 am

There's also the case of ST:TMP where Earth's planetary defenses were so powerful that Kirk expected it would give them bargaining power against V'ger, which had enough power to stop the sun from rotating.

V'ger was only able to deactivate them because of the information gleaned from the Enterprise computer regarding Earth-defenses, including override-codes, before Spock smashed the computer-console.

This is easily powerful enough to stop even the wanked SW figures.

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by Admiral Breetai » Sat May 21, 2011 5:05 am

Christ all mighty What the fuck really? V'ger could stop the sun from rotating but couldn't hope to breach Earth's shields? jesus I haven't seen that movie in like three or four years but really? why is this even being debated then if true..good lord the ICS even doesn't even have shit on that

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Re: Star Trek Shields (with a word in by Wong!)

Post by User1619 » Sat May 21, 2011 5:35 am

Admiral Breetai wrote:Christ all mighty What the fuck really? V'ger could stop the sun from rotating but couldn't hope to breach Earth's shields? jesus I haven't seen that movie in like three or four years but really? why is this even being debated then if true..good lord the ICS even doesn't even have shit on that
Well I wouldn't say "couldn't hope to breach Earth's shields," since the novel said that Kirk was expecting that Earth-defenses could give them some bargaining-power against V'ger, not hold it off indefinitely.

Likewise, Decker it would only take thousands of starships to generate a 12-power field.
G2K dismissed this as non-canon because it was too powerful to take seriously; but after what you said about Tripp's comment that 1000 NX-01 ships could destroy a planet, then it pretty much squares out.

That's why I say, "why even pretend?"
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