Mr. Oragahn wrote:
All depends on the size of the fleet they send and when, since technology is bound to make leaps as exchanges continue. As pointed out, I don't see the Imperials not acquiring tech from the Ferengi or else.
I highly doubt the fereingi would deal with them with their home galaxy yes? but the empire? I'll address that below though as for fleet sizes they'd be between a few ISD's to dozens maybe for the big major offenses hundreds but that's dubious they have a galaxy full of problems and a huge slave population and oppressed masses to quell as well as a rebellion any Sw forces in that number mass any kind of assault on a planet that's of any value and it will be torn to pieces in short order
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Heck, they could literally offer one of those other factions a juicy contract to have them build the Empire some typical Trek ships while having access to the imperial industry. Oh sure, things would take time to put into place, but it's not like the UFP would get anywhere before this gets achieved anyway.
who'd do that? besides pine apple heads the Cardassians and some DQ powers? the feds have extremely good PR and as of the end of the last canon st film and voy...the feds are basically the uncontested top dog of the galaxy with the exception of the Dominion who needs to play tech catch up
your also a dealing with a federation who has no problem ramping up their industry and one that has shown through the various deeds of their nefarious shadow groups no problem attempting genocide on any one who dares
[
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Torpedo spheres can puncture any matrix of shields that provides a full planetary coverage and the Hoth shields already was offering a good enough protection against Death Squadron.
sounds like a no limits fallacy it can penetrate wars shields fine but if all this thing does is hurl torps at a shield it might get mulched by fed phasers long before it has the chance
Mr. Oragahn wrote:The torpedo sphere is built to put holes in shields far above that (although the full coverage planetary shields are rare). They can find the weak spots in shields, same weak spots we know exist on the prison facility's shield from TOS for example.
an outdated shield?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
More than the UFP? I doubt it.
what? between Tarkin and his special ed brigade in the death star Ozzle and the idiots who kept botching hoth up after ozzle got neck smushed and every one else we've seen far more stupid Wars commanders
Piet came off as competent for christs sakes and even his secretary was like "ermmm dude this whole trap is a really retarded idea" though I actually thought those two weren't too bad and Tarkins only failing was his arrogance which was well justified considering what his ride was
mind you Janeway and Archer take the fucking cake Riker who some how manages to to be so stupid he suggests pulverizing a moon in decaying orbit despite it being well obvious how lethal that'd turn out and some how manages to nearly blow the enterprise up when ever he's in command and pulled a John Mclane gas trail trap on the Sona..
oh and the Captain of the Odyssey and the captain of the Yamato who despite knowing there was some kind of hyper advanced computer virus from an ancient race infecting his computer totally thought it was cool to hail Picard
you have conversely guys like Edward Jellicho who despite being a total tight ass was a good captain and was the only guy who really seemed to be able to bully the fuck out of the Cardassians..well aside from Picard Sisko though he was more like a trained pitbull then a tactical genius in that Sisko really only knew how to do two things "be nice and kind to family and friends" and "Cardassians!! Dominion go get 'em boy!!" he still seemed rather okay
Worf was kinda stupid but then again his solution to everything was allot more like Sisko's style of "hit it until it begs for mercy or blows up" only with more suicide
Maxwell was not an idiot he went rambo and whooped an ungodly amount of ass but he wasn't stupid and in the end he was completely right in his suspicions and made Fed politicians come off as stupid as all hell. He was ten or twelve kinds of crazy but he wasn't an idiot
hell if anything you take a say fifty fifty ratio with the really competent captains and the dumb asses the only down side to this is that the competent ones tend to go completely insane and go on a roaring rampage of revenge when confronted with brutality...I personally have no issue with this what so ever
but if your an imperial officer and you just nuked some hick world on the edge of fed space that resisted a little too hard and you found the local sector fleet had family there...well shit these space hippies aren't used to this kinda cruelty and completely flipped their shit against the dominion and to the cardassians when they saw it,...one guy went on a one man killing spree of entire fleets
the issue is this..now my ISD battle group has really fast moving mini planet wreckers with obscene range chasing down my slow moving "bruiser" type fleet and I'm pretty sure due to it being a sector fleet it's probably some shitty ass group of mirandas or someshit...okay individually a Miranda vs an ISD is like Bruce Lee vs Mike Tyson or Goerge Foreman...sure the guys gonna put up a pretty sure but in the end he's gonna be missing an ear and half his face will be caved in
problem is..I know now have twenty psychotic Bruce lee's bum rushing my ass
*end rant*
it's gonna be bad no matter how this goes
[
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Or that after loosing several ships and battles, they understand that their main problem is one of range against those torpedoes. That problem can be solved.
it'd be more like loosing entire fleets but your right here this will be adapted too and compensated the empire isn't that stupid
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
It depends on the distance between the torpedo and the ship.
SDs have ranges in the hundreds of kilometers and bolts which can travel at about 10 km/s (from ROTJ). The other factor is how powerful you think the imperial ships are.
it's not just torpedoes it's phasers and you can't flack phasers well you can but it's easily adjusted for with the sensor tech
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
As for the FTL torps, I'm going to shrugg it off. When have we seen Trek ships reliably shoot torps at FTL speeds against targets flying at STL speeds?
Nemesis Enterprise and iirc voyager if memory serves
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Indeed. From bits I found in the EU, it's even possible that imperial shields might prove incapable of stopping most if not all of a phaser beam, based on how SW shields behave against two types of Trek-like disintegrating weapons.
gravitic based particle shielding for the missiles and ray shielding for the energy weapons if my EU lore is up to date
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
That said, that would be another obvious reason to try to acquire said tech. It's not like disruptors or phasers are secret knowledge. Besides, the Empire wouldn't be suicidal up to the point of throwing its forces if from the first engagement, it would realize that its ships' defenses are as good as if they didn't exist. They're not pushovers.
They'll reconsider their strategy and focus on leveling the playground.
acquiring tech in the trek verse wont be hard acquiring tech on the feds level is another story entirely.aside from one remote example..only one or two races that aren't allied with the Feds have that kinda tech and both would more then gladly...open fire on the Imps one of them may even be extinct and it would be suicide to make a deal with them any ways
oh theres eight four seven two but being psychotic racists about as crazy as the founders I'm pretty sure this will end badly
[
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Precisely. The only problem to that is that even if the Empire has those numbers, most of them are used to patrol its own territory against pirate and rebel raids.
On the other hand, the Empire would have enough power and money to encourage some evil force in Trek to work against the UFP.
who at present Dominion aside would likely do nothing of the sort
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
The flipside of this is that the UFP could really give a boost to the rebels.
But all in all, the UFP has far more to lose than the Empire. The Empire has size and momentum. The technological gap and lack of data about territories, it can gain it from other alien species in Trek interested in war, trade or/and money, while the UFP won't be able to put a deep enough dent into the Empire.
size and momentum? size they barely make use of the same way the feds could momentum I'll give you though
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Its unique chance of victory -and this has been clear for quite some time now, at least here- is to strike for Palpatine and his bureaucracy. This can be achieved with mounting a suicide and surprise attack against Coruscant after being sure that Palpatine is there, while continuously flying at warp for years. The problem being that ships at warp don't leave realspace, they just bend it. So they do leave a trace of their passage and their direction.
or you can just drop a line to s31 and let them star bust
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
It's quite sure that if those UFOs get detected and seen headed for the Core Worlds, the Empire as a whole will get more than a litle suspicious. You may literally think that Palpatine will move to a more secure place until this gets solved.
why would SW sensors detect warp moving vessels?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Now, back to those questions of territorial fighting.
If the Empire ever was to manage to settle a beachhead on the fringe of the UFP, and if a planetary shield would get established, as the Empire is well ahead of the UFP when it comes to ground units, it could easily hold it.
starfleet marines suck because their capital ships can snipe out germs from orbit...
the Federation does not need an army by our terms
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
The UFP could try doing the same and bust would have to seriously rework its entire concept of ground control. It would also have to deal with the problem of torpedo spheres and even perhaps a Death Star, depending on when this would take place.
storm troopers and mechanized vehicles will go down hard to phasers
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Not against the ships, but against the surface targets. Those would be suicide missions.
Well, at first.
Again, with the most expected leveling of the tech gap, things would soon turn very grim for the UFP.
trying to glass planets may not be very smart even the Dominion knew better then to play mass destruction game with the federation and they had a knee jerk emotional reaction so severe to the feds that it seemed at times it was a "must kill my reflection" type battle for them
I don't think the imps would ever get that emotionally invested beyond "raid steel epic tech and sit fat and comfy in our own galaxy" well at least any one but sidious
Mr. Oragahn wrote:The Empire is also humanity... and much more. Seriously, what do ou think the Ferengi will do when they're promised all new markets and lands to exploit and explore?
The Ferengi are very schemy and few of them have actually appeared friendly towards the UFP. The Ferengi like money. They do business and they've been shown to sell weapons to any side ready to buy it. Even Quark, one of the most open Ferengi towards the UFP, restricted his bar to filter out any UFP customer at some point.
They'll be responsible of UFP's problems, among other things, and there's nothing which can be done against that aside from running false flag attacks on the worlds of the Ferengi Alliance or its ships, and propose to protect their lands, ships and trade from Imperial activity if they cut all contacts with the Empire.
The empire is a hyper racist anti xeno organization who's industrial base makes use of slaves from all over the Galaxy slavery which is an extreme cultural taboo amongst the Ferengi to the extent that Quark got extremely indignant when Sisko dared to pass judgement on his people with Rom in charge now the odds of them doing anything of the sort when Rom is creating a more modern society and is very pro fed is really low
mind you I have no problem what so ever seeing the Fereingi making deals with the hutts and the Rebellion at all in fact it would be an excellent PR move for the Ferengi to move in on the rebellion "Fereingars new face lift now we're making a proft and valiantly defending humans and non humans of many different races in a galaxy far away from mass genocide and oppression!!"
the Orion syndicate might do what your suggesting though
[
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
This has literally no chance to happen and is just all too bound to mistakes. Not to say that if they grab the rabbit, the Ferengi will be twice nastier against the UFP.
the empire is not a good business partner especially considering who's presently in charge
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Frankly, time is something the Empire has. It's just too vast, and if the UFP attacks, it will all go to the Empire's benefit, as it will have a new enemy against which all can unite, and that, my friend, is something priceless to any sick government.
It's going to be tough for the rebellion to retain their support when their most friendly worlds will see their populaces suddenly coil in fear because of those unknown terrorists. And if the Rebellion were to band with the UFP, the Empire would have an opportunity to paint them as galacic traitors.
not really they don't have that kind of time at all considering how radical the feds tech progression became post voyager and how utterly ruthless S31 is as for rallying support? it's very hard to beat fed propaganda when all they have to do is park a ship in orbit over a very poor outer rim world and then suddenly hand them magic "make anything I need" devices and they start selling plentary engineering tech and stuff
"we can feed you we can eliminate everything that was the core reason the republic and empire exploited you and we'll do it just because it's the right thing to do and if you tell us to fuck off after words we'll go leaving with the satisfaction that we did the morally correct thing regardless of the out come"
you can't buy publicity like this and you can't keep a lid on it either especially in a dump like the outer rim and some other imperial controlled areas if the movies are any indication
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Meanwhile, the UFP would have to make huge efforts to spread a propaganda of some utopic friendly and free society that welcomes anyone.
"we defeated religious terrorists and are currently protecting the galaxy from evil traitors Xeno illuminatis and extra galactic threats"
"we'll give you the means to become totally self sufficient for no other reason then we like being nice, we have invaded worlds that have committed bitter atrocities against us then helped resurrect them from war torn famine doom and bankruptcy then left and tried to make peace..we have extended our hand in charity to our mortal enemies the Romulans and they accepted we rebuffed a universal threat from an entirely separate dimension took out The Borg a species who's only interest was cosmic domination and brought the Dominion to it's knees a species that is just as bad as the empire and we did all this because 1, they decided to mess with us we rarely seek out conflict but wont shy away from it 2, because letting such dangerous beings do what ever they want is cowardly and evil in and of itself"
they have excellent propaganda
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
The Empire could probably pull a false flag a thousand times better than the UFP could, far more effective. They're more pragmatic and evil, and obviously capable of doing so.
why?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Possibly.
oh I don't doubt that