AOTC: Slave I's missile yield

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:01 pm

Going straight to the point, is there a descriptive methodology, accompagnated by calcs, that provides the yield of those missiles?

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:40 pm

The only thing i've seen is what's stated in the ICS. Calcing those warheads might be a tad difficult since we only see one exploding in the background and then the ensuing fireball.

Nonamer · Post by **Nonamer** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:46 pm

None that I know of.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:27 am

Could it be possible to get a minimum estimate, based on the number of pixels wide the fireball is seen to take up and compare it to the number for the width of the jedi fighter (and estimate on the approximate width figure)? Then, you'd take a known expansion of something, like thermal energy or pressure wave maybe and adjust some numbers for the lack atmosphere contact? Maybe track one of the pieces of debris that survives the whole fighter escaping sequence, as it heads to the camera, kinda like what Darkstar did with the Falcon.

I haven't done that much scaling, especially for explosions in space, so I'm just guessing how it might be.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:55 am

My main problem is that the sequence seems to be strangely cut.
When the missile explodes, there's that big fireball, but you see it nearing its maximum size as the starfighter passes by the camera. Yet the two sandwiched asteroids do not appear to be affected at all. No heat, no movement. Nada.

Then, there's that shot from the Slave I, and most asteroids in the vicinity of the explosion seem to be gone, especially the two big ones. Maybe that's my crappy video, but I wonder if there's some kind of visual blooper, or if it's just a result of the video cut.

If there's a blooper, then I'd ponder the exactness of any calculation based on visuals.

AnonymousRedShirtEnsign · Post by **AnonymousRedShirtEnsign** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:58 am

You're not the only one who has noticed this apparent incongruity with the asteroids. I just assumed it was an error/ blooper. Since the explosion has absolutely not effect on the asteroids in the shot with them it is clear that they were not vaporized/ outright destroyed.

AFT · Post by **AFT** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:12 pm

The Slave I that according to certain site is more than a match for a Galaxy class starship? Whatever the yield is not anywhere near those claims.

AnonymousRedShirtEnsign · Post by **AnonymousRedShirtEnsign** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:05 pm

There were only two sources used in that "analysis" the TNG:TM and the AotC:ICS, neither of which is very accurate when it comes to firepower stats.

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:26 pm

There is the concussion missle analysis article from the now defunct Strek-v-SWars.net site, now archived on ST-V-SW.Net:

http://www.st-v-sw.net/Obsidian/STSWObsid-Strek.html

The article has a few minor issues, but has some very respectable screencaps showing some debris being moved by the explosion, as well as pointing out asteroids that are not fragments, but might be mistaken as such. The author of the article places the concussion missle yeild between 2.5 and 25 kt (15 kt average).
-Mike

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:11 pm

I'm afraid i'm going to have to disagree with that article, quite heavily. I'd love nothing more then for it to be right. But it just isn't. Not in my eyes.

we see the missile veer downwards (from the cameras perspective) and impact with the lower asteroid.

We see no such thing. I've been playing that sequence back and forth frame by frame and i can't see this happening. In fact, to me it looks like the missile indeed is detonated by the spare parts, which are still far of from the larger asteroid and the smaller pieces as well.

The small asteroid we see fragmented can be scaled against the torpedo in the final frame before impact,

The torpedoe is no where near that asteroid when it detonates. But i will however say that when he estimates the torp is about 8.7m in height, he is very generous, a little too generous in fact. We clearly see that the Asteroid is about as high as Obi-Wan's fighter craft when they are both at approximately the same distance from the camera. Which would be closer to 1.5m or 2m.

But from here it gets worse again. It's impossible to say with any certainty where the debris is coming from and which asteroids were really destroyed in the blast. In fact, the debris seems to appear from places there weren't even any asteroids before the explosions.

And even if that article was right, he would have to multiply the final figure by a factor of 4 to get a surface detonation instead of a buried charge.

2046 · Post by **2046** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:36 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:There is the concussion missle analysis article from the now defunct Strek-v-SWars.net site, now archived on ST-V-SW.Net:

http://www.st-v-sw.net/Obsidian/STSWObsid-Strek.html

Ah, sorry . . . alas, inline frames also do that annoying thing where what's in the address bar is a damn dirty lie. ;) Try this link:

http://www.st-v-sw.net/Obsidian/Strek/A ... roid1.html

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:20 pm

Just abusing those new powers I recently acquired, I made a little documentary on the missile.

Documentary.

Beware the 3.35 Mb.

Post by **Jedi Master Spock** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:40 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Just abusing those new powers I recently acquired, I made a little documentary on the missile.

Documentary.

Beware the 3.35 Mb.

Cute and detailed, but do you have any solid figures to produce for the missile's yield?

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:27 pm

I just don't see how you could get a figure from that scene. Perhaps one could take the fact that nearby asteroids aren't covered with a melted and glowing top-layer after the explosion as some form of indicator of the intensity of the thermal flash involved?

Yes, i know that a thermal flash would be very visible on its own. But let's be frank, in Sci-Fi in general, we don't tend to see the flash. And the thermal radiation from stars and the like are frequently toned down. If it were me, then i'd chalk it up as VFX people catering to the viewers and subbing what would be realistic for something more visually pleasing (as in not a completly white screen).

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:29 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Just abusing those new powers I recently acquired, I made a little documentary on the missile.

Documentary.

Beware the 3.35 Mb.
Cute and detailed, but do you have any solid figures to produce for the missile's yield?

Not much, but what we notice there reveals a couple of things:

There's no bright flash. However, it would be expected from a high level fusion or antimatter weapon.

The fireball expands a bit, but we can see it slowing down during the last frames.

Asteroids located very close to the coordinates of the explosion don't have their surface facing the explosion heat up at all.

The only thing that happens is that something like two dozens of fighter sized debris, sometimes a bit bigger, sometimes a bit smaller, and ripped off the big lower asteroid near the point of impact.

This does clearly not support a yield of 190 MT.