Starfleet Jedi

I was recently watching TNG: The Defector and I came upon an interesting fact about the Enterprise and her shields.

Within the episode the Enteprise extends her shields around another ship... this isn't what I found to be interesting, we've seen it before and we'll see it again I'm sure...


What I thought was interesting was the distance. Specifically 5km.

We also learned, officially, that by extending shields out to this range they are significantly weakened. While this may say something in regards to federation shield strength at a distance, it also must mean the reverse is true, that by keeping shields close (like in DS9) you create much stronger shields.

To say the least, it does raise a question of the difference in strength between ENT/TOS/TNG/VOY shields vs DS9 shields... where we see, perhaps, some of the most combat oriented episodes of all of trek.

That's not qutie a new revelation, Trinoya. In fact, it follows quite logically from what we saw happen to the TOS-era Constitution class Enterprise in "Mudd's Women" [TOS, Season 1] where the the shields were extended a considerable distance to protect Harry Mudd's little Class-J cargo ship from being destroyed by asteroids long enough for everyone to be beamed aboard safely. However this was done at the expense of straining the shields and the ship's power systems quite heavily, burning out the "lithium" crystals in the process.

I think your theory about how bringing in the shields strengthens them, or at least reduced the power cost is quite interesting as it would explain a great deal of what we see. I might add that the disadvantage of bringing shields into a tight, conformal configuration is that there is no "buffer" against leak-through energy, which would explain the large amounts of structural damage sufffered by starships in the various Dominion War battles.
-Mike

Trinoya wrote:We also learned, officially, that by extending shields out to this range they are significantly weakened. While this may say something in regards to federation shield strength at a distance, it also must mean the reverse is true, that by keeping shields close (like in DS9) you create much stronger shields.

And yet in DS9 starships are routinely taken down in one shot or with minimal ramming speeds.

Explaining DS9's shields looks to be a lost cause unless you pretend both sides preferred not to use them for some reason.

Much of that can be explained away by the use of full-power weapons, and the shields being optimized for deflecting EM-based energy weapons, not kinetics. Most of the heavily damaged starships we saw also tended be either very small and relatively weak ones, or older vessels, or both.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:Much of that can be explained away by the use of full-power weapons, and the shields being optimized for deflecting EM-based energy weapons, not kinetics. Most of the heavily damaged starships we saw also tended be either very small and relatively weak ones, or older vessels, or both.
-Mike

Nope, even phasers generally kill in one shot!!!!!!!!! CONCESSION ACCEPTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oragahn wrote:Nope, even phasers generally kill in one shot

We haven't seen many "one shot phaser kills", if memory serves.
We've generally seen a few to many shots, but one shots were very rare.

Praeothmin wrote:

Oragahn wrote:Nope, even phasers generally kill in one shot

We haven't seen many "one shot phaser kills", if memory serves.
We've generally seen a few to many shots, but one shots were very rare.

They're only seconded by two shots destructions.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:

Mike DiCenso wrote:Much of that can be explained away by the use of full-power weapons, and the shields being optimized for deflecting EM-based energy weapons, not kinetics. Most of the heavily damaged starships we saw also tended be either very small and relatively weak ones, or older vessels, or both.
-Mike

Nope, even phasers generally kill in one shot!!!!!!!!! CONCESSION ACCEPTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coming down with a case of SDN-itis?
-Mike

Mr. Oragahn wrote:

Praeothmin wrote:

Oragahn wrote:Nope, even phasers generally kill in one shot

We haven't seen many "one shot phaser kills", if memory serves.
We've generally seen a few to many shots, but one shots were very rare.

They're only seconded by two shots destructions.

We really don't see "one-shot, one-kill" situations. But even in TOS, there is at least one instance of the Enterprise taking out a Klingon ship with just a few phaser shots during the opening teaser of "Errand of Mercy" [TOS, Season 1].
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:

Mr. Oragahn wrote:

Praeothmin wrote: We haven't seen many "one shot phaser kills", if memory serves.
We've generally seen a few to many shots, but one shots were very rare.

They're only seconded by two shots destructions.

We really don't see "one-shot, one-kill" situations. But even in TOS, there is at least one instance of the Enterprise taking out a Klingon ship with just a few phaser shots during the opening teaser of "Errand of Mercy" [TOS, Season 1].
-Mike

... so after the Dominion War, most of the ships are really relying on hull hugging shields... like in Nemesis?

Umm... OK I've read enough, where is the evidence that ST ships are always destroyed in just one or 2 shots?

Here's a YouTube depicting battle scenes from both Star Trek and Stargate that show the contrary to what you claim of ST.

Oragahn, here's an even better example, in the "Sacrifice of Angels" battle scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoIFUJxJwcQ

Apart from the small Fed fighters taken out in one shot, we don't see any other ships suffer the same fate.
Even the older Mirandas get taken out by torpedoes after being damaged by Phaser and keeping up with the Defiant...

Why is that Miranda dissolving at 1:29?

Praeothmin wrote:Oragahn, here's an even better example, in the "Sacrifice of Angels" battle scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoIFUJxJwcQ

Apart from the small Fed fighters taken out in one shot, we don't see any other ships suffer the same fate.
Even the older Mirandas get taken out by torpedoes after being damaged by Phaser and keeping up with the Defiant...

About those fighters I wonder what was the idea of launching small fighters against heavily shielded and armed capital ships. They never had a chance.


BTW: On that note does anyone have any specs on Fed fighters? Their armament etc.?

The Corporal wrote:Why is that Miranda dissolving at 1:29?

It's made with biodegradable Duranium.
Being over 100 years old, it started to degrade... ;)

Seriously, if you look closely, you'll notice a torpedo coming in from the top right part of the screen, and hitting it.
That's what makes it explode...