Star Wars vs Star Trek shields

[Mike DiCenso]

well that's pure Mike Wank.

If you can't use his name correctly, then don't name him...

Obviously the shoe fits if you know who I'm talking about.

Obviously you're attempting to get your latest sock puppet banned, KSW. Praeo would be well within his rights to do so for your latest violation of the board rules.
-Mike

[User1619]

Ok I'll just say "wank," same difference.

[Praeothmin]

Its inner edge was roughly 66% of earths orbit from the star i think so 200 milion km.

Isn't the Earth at around 150 million km from the Sun?

The diameter of the Earth's orbit around the sun is just shy of 300 million km.
-Mike

Well of course it is, if the Earth is, as I said, around 150 million km from the Sun, which implied a radius, then its orbit's diameter would be close to 300 million km... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

I know it might sound stupid, but...

maybe neutronium was taken from neutron stars, and then some neutrons were broken into photons and electrons, and everything was used to construct sphere, in combination with advanced gravitational technology?

The Doomsday Machine was made of solid neutronium, and it wasn't nearly as well-contructed as the Dyson Sphere, apparently being crudely forged; I always assumed that was because neutronium isn't easy to work with.

As for claims by SDN'ers that the empire uses neutronium... well that's pure Mike Wank.

...so you claim that the doomsday machine is made out of the contradictory solid neutronium, and then turn around and call claims that SW has neutronium as wank?

Dare I say hypocrisy?

And dare you answer the reason as to why the doomsday machine was destroyed by a 100 megaton self destruction device, when the Enterprise could hardly scratch it?

[Admiral Breetai]

why oh why are you responding to a banned defensless poster?

[User1626]

I know it might sound stupid, but...

maybe neutronium was taken from neutron stars, and then some neutrons were broken into photons and electrons, and everything was used to construct sphere, in combination with advanced gravitational technology?

The Doomsday Machine was made of solid neutronium, and it wasn't nearly as well-contructed as the Dyson Sphere, apparently being crudely forged; I always assumed that was because neutronium isn't easy to work with.

As for claims by SDN'ers that the empire uses neutronium... well that's pure Mike Wank.

...so you claim that the doomsday machine is made out of the contradictory solid neutronium, and then turn around and call claims that SW has neutronium as wank?

Dare I say hypocrisy?

This is interesting: I don't recall the Federation building the Doomsday Machine: it was an alien artifact from an ancient unknown civilization which destroyed both sides.
Likewise, there's many examples that SW ships do not contain neutronium.... in addition to basic sanity regarding their obvious lack of mass.

And it was Spock who said that the DM's hull was constructed of solid neutronium, so there's no debating that.
Meanwhile, nobody in the G or T-canon said anything was made of neutronium, it was obviously beyond their means to work it: as it was even beyond the Federation's.

And dare you answer the reason as to why the doomsday machine was destroyed by a 100 megaton self destruction device, when the Enterprise could hardly scratch it?

The phasers were fired at the hull; the Constellation's engines were detonated inside the DM.
You know, you really are a weasel, just like everyone here says. I've been checking out your posts to see if what they say is true; and darn if it isn't the truth, like you prove right here.

Didn't you hear Spock say that detonating the Constellation's engines wouldn't affect the hull of the DM, and Kirk cut in and said that it would work if they detonated it inside?

As the poster said above, Kirk said in the novel that the DM's guts couldn't be made out of Neutronium, since it can't conduct electricity, so the computers would be vulnerable to the blast, according to information from the Enterprise sensor-readings when Decker rammed the shuttlecraft into its maw.

If you're going to make reckless statements like this, ignoring the clear evidence in order to fantasize yourself a Mary Sue girlfriend, then it's no wonder that nobody here can stand you; and I'm not talking to you anymore, only a dumb fox chases a wild goose.
I urge others to follow suit.

[Praeothmin]

How big was the Doomsday Machine?
It seemed pretty big, at least a couple hundred meters wide, and much, much more in length...
What was its volume?
How much would such a thing mass, since pure Neutronium masses 10e14 to 10e15 grams par centimeter cube?
Wouldn't they have mentioned the gravitational effects of the thing?

[Mike DiCenso]

You should be aware that Kirk says the following:

KIRK: Spock, listen. Maybe Matt Decker didn't die for nothing. He had the right idea but not enough power to do it. Am I correct in assuming that a fusion explosion of ninety seven megatons will result if a starship impulse engine is overloaded?

Note that he says engine, singular, not plural. Later he asks Scotty to rig the self-destruct:

KIRK: Good. Scotty, can you set the ship's impulse engines to overload?

Note that he uses plural. So multiple impulse engines will be blown up, not one. Therefore the explosion will be at least 196 megatons. Furthermore, the plan was to damage the mechanism from inside the machine, not outside, since the neutronium hull could withstand it. In fact, when the Constellation's engines blow, the hull of the Doomsday Machine is still intact, though it's inner mechanism is destroyed.

So you can see where you have gone wrong on all accounts. Please, try again.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

How big was the Doomsday Machine?
It seemed pretty big, at least a couple hundred meters wide, and much, much more in length...
What was its volume?
How much would such a thing mass, since pure Neutronium masses 10e14 to 10e15 grams par centimeter cube?
Wouldn't they have mentioned the gravitational effects of the thing?

Depends on whether you look at the original version, or the Remastered version. The original version FX make out the thing to be less than 3 km long, while the Remastered version looks similar, it is clearly several miles long.
-Mike

[User1626]

How big was the Doomsday Machine?
It seemed pretty big, at least a couple hundred meters wide, and much, much more in length...
What was its volume?
How much would such a thing mass, since pure Neutronium masses 10e14 to 10e15 grams par centimeter cube?
Wouldn't they have mentioned the gravitational effects of the thing?

It was "Miles long"

Neutronium in reality would weigh about a million times as much as iron at the same nuclear density, which checks out to about 7 metric tons per cubic centimeter at normal gravity-levels, since otherwise it would explode from the absence of ambient gravity of a neutron-star. I'd say that it was fixed into a permanent form at normal-gravity levels by some type of unknown technology. So essentially each cubic centimeter of the hull would have the protective mass of a seven tons of neutrons, and so the Enterprise's strafing-pass obviously couldn't hurt it.

[Praeothmin]

So it wasn't "true" Neutronium, just a very dense material then...

[User1626]

So it wasn't "true" Neutronium, just a very dense material then...

It was neutronium in that it was solid neutrons, but of course it wasn't at the density of a neutron-star since then they'd all would just fly apart.
And of course the core of a neutron-star is denser than the surface anyway, so is there a minimum density for neutronium?

[Picard]

Or maybe it had some gravity-manipulating devices which kept neutronium "solid". I don't think it is required to mention that these do not exist on natural, neutronium-ladden moons, which exist in Star Wars EU?

[User1626]

Or maybe it had some gravity-manipulating devices which kept neutronium "solid"

Then the Doomsday Machine would break apart once its mechanisms were fried. It didn't.
Spock said "the hull is solid neutronium." This was a common term in Kirk's day, as Scotty implies when he says that the gangster in "Return of the Archons" is "angry enough to chew neutronium."

Now if they knew what neutronium was, but couldn't create it, then clearly they weren't talking about some artificially-maintained material. Nor would they be talking about something at the density only in a star's core.
Obviously, the surface of a neutron star is solid, it doesn't need to be at the same density as the core.

I don't think it is required to mention that these do not exist on natural, neutronium-ladden moons, which exist in Star Wars EU?

It's not only not required, it's not possible that this is the same type of neutronium that we're talking about. Nor is it consistent with the G or T-canon.
I mean, seriously, you're telling me that the Doomsay Machine's hull would have problems with asteroids, like the ISD's did in Ep. V?
Finally, even if they did get their hands on some neutronium, how would they process it? It's beyond their means.
Likewise, the sheer mass involved would render them completely immobile, given their ion-thrusters. Dont..... just don't go there, it's too silly. Do everyone a favor, including yourself, and just let it go.

[User1626]

How big was the Doomsday Machine?
It seemed pretty big, at least a couple hundred meters wide, and much, much more in length...
What was its volume?
How much would such a thing mass, since pure Neutronium masses 10e14 to 10e15 grams par centimeter cube?
Wouldn't they have mentioned the gravitational effects of the thing?

Depends on whether you look at the original version, or the Remastered version. The original version FX make out the thing to be less than 3 km long, while the Remastered version looks similar, it is clearly several miles long.
-Mike

The original FX don't really hold up, since Decker's shuttle is way too big when it flies into the Doomsday Machine, compared to the Constellation later doing the same thing; so obviously it's not a reliable standard.
Decker said that it was "miles long," and he had even run a scan on its anti-proton beam; so it's hard to say he was exaggerating, since the dimensions of the DM would be the first thing scanned (like in "The Changeling" when Spock says that Nomad is "one meter long").

Therefore, the re-mastered version is clearly more consistent with Decker's canon-statement that it was "miles long."